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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Gaza Blockade Question (Page 8)

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Author Topic: Gaza Blockade Question
Pete at Home
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quote:
you think it is permissible for Israel to kill thousands of civilians because they are supposedly invited to do so, by a people who are victim of their land grab and blockades.
There Kid goes again, claiming mind-reading powers, and equating Hamas to the Palestinian people.

It seems like hypocrisy to rage at people who equate anti-zionism with antisemitism, and then turn around and act as if anyone who says anything against Hamas has slurred the Palestinian people.

Unfortunately this is typical leftwash.

In Australia, a Jewish community leader has been slammed for "racism" for sending an email alleging that Hamas has committed [gasp] war crimes. [Roll Eyes]

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Seneca
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Oh, is Kid still equating Likud to Hamas?

Likud does not rule Israel. They are in a governing COALITION. Hamas is the sole ruler of Gaza.

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Pete at Home
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Likud doesn't have a militant wing. The settlers who commit violence are more often part of more extreme parties.
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seagull
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The first time that the phrase "alive today" shows up in this thread was in Greg's 2014-08-05 10:20 post:
quote:
Of those 790,000 under 26 years old, how many of them alive today have committed terrorist acts including suicide bombings?
my initial response posted 2014-08-05 11:36 was:
quote:
ROTFL, what a loaded question.
To answer in the same spirit that the question was phrased I would presume that the number of people alive today that successfully committed suicide bombings is exactly zero! Is that what you want to base your statistics on?

At first I thought the reference to Suicide bombers alive today was a joke but as time went on I started to doubt that - posted 2014-08-08 02:13
quote:
I am starting to wonder if Greg's earlier questions about "how many suicide bombers alive today ..." was an intentional attempt to produce skewed statistics that support his preconceived notions.
Greg's responses (posted 2014-08-08 09:44 and posted 2014-08-08 09:49) were:
quote:
Seagull, you are the one who made the absurd reference to suicide bombers, not me ...

You are the one who declared many people guilty of an evil crime that they clearly did not commit.

Seagull, when you make assertions about what I would do, you are wrong.

I suggest you don't make up things about how I would respond.

If you can't find an example of me exhibiting behavior that you can cite, don't make accusations based on a hypothetical about what I would do.

At this point, it stopped being funny.
The time stamps on the quotes above clearly show that Greg had actually made the statement on this very thread. But instead of correcting his mistake, he:
1. accused me of making assertions about what he would do. and stated that I was wrong.
2. Made his own (wrong) assertions about what I would do.

It seemed that Greg is good at telling me what not to do but does not think the same rules apply to himself.

In my 2014-08-08 10:54 post I pointed out the discrepancies in Greg response.

His reply was:
quote:
You were the first person in this conversation to include the absurd reference to suicide bombers being alive today. If I had done it first, I would have apologized for the obviously flawed assertion.
Maybe Greg was confused but the time stamps do not lie.

I called him on it in my 2014-08-08 21:51 post:
quote:
Still waiting for the apology. But not holding my breath ...
Well, I am still waiting ...
I assumed that if Greg really cares about his credibility he would post some clarification.

But I would not go so far as to make that hypothetical assumption (conditioned on Greg actually caring) into an assertion or accusation.

I do not care if Greg actually believes that the principles he posts apply to himself or just to me. I happen to believe that I should not make accusations based on a hypothetical about what Greg would do.

[ August 27, 2014, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: seagull ]

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Pete at Home
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Netanyahu's proclaiming "victory" is either calculated to bait Hamas into breaking the ceasefire, or the Guy seriously doesnt grok his enemy. http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28955615
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Pete at Home
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Same link, " The UN says more than 17,000 buildings in Gaza have been destroyed or severely damaged,and that there are at least 475,000 internally displaced people (IDPs),more than a quarter of the territory's population."

Wow. [Frown] that's a lot more serious than the common 2000law dead stat.

If Hamas keeps this ceasefire, i will have to reconsider my evaluation of their motives.

May God soften Netanyahu's heart at the next conference. Total disarnament is unreadonable. Disarming qassam rockets is not unreasonable. And Israel must give as well. Stop building settlements so long as ceasefire.endures, and evacuate 1 settlement per year of peace, starting with the one belonging to the killers of that Palestinian kid.

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seagull
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"The UN says more than ..."
Note the source. UNRWA is an organization that receives funding based on the number of refugees they claim to handle. They are notorious for inflating the numbers and magnitude of the suffering in order to maintain their funding.

AFAIK, It is the only UN refugee agency in the World that gave refugee status to 3rd and 4th generation "refugees".

If the 3rd and 4th generation are considered refugees than most of Israel's 8 million population are refugees as well (from 1945 - 1950).

I believe that there are indeed many people in Gaza that have been displaced by the recent conflict but I would not trust any UN agency when it comes to counting how many there are.

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seagull
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quote:
On Wednesday, the UN's World Food Programme said one of its convoys had entered Gaza for the first time since 2007, carrying enough food to feed around 150,000 people for five days.
The quote is obviously misleading on the face of it. Food markets in Gaza have been operating throughout the 50 day conflict and food deliveries to Gaza from Israel never stopped (except for temporary closures when Hamas bombed the border crossings).

Referring specifically to the WFP, If this was really the first time since 2007 , where did this Aug 6 2014 picture come from?

Closer examination of the WFP web site shows that the "first time since 2007" phrase may refer to one specific WFP convoy going through the Egyptian controlled Rafah crossing for the first time. It also shows that WFP was able to deliver aid in other ways even during the 50 days of recent conflict.

As we can see from the news in Ukraine, credible aid programs like the Red Cross often have trouble delivering (or even escorting) aid shipments to areas controlled by militants who are trying to smuggle weapons or use the aid shipments as leverage over the local population.

To the extent that WFP is a credible organization, their difficulty in delivering food to Palestinian civilians in Gaza is the direct responsibility of Hamas. The phrasing of the quote above that seems to imply that for many years WFP was unable "to feed around 150,000 people" casts doubt on the credibility and motives of the reporter and the agency that posted the article.

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seagull
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quote:
Netanyahu's proclaiming "victory" is either calculated to bait Hamas into breaking the ceasefire, or the Guy seriously doesnt grok his enemy
There you go again with the binary thinking.
Pete, do you really need ME to spell out other possible reasons for proclaiming victory?

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