Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Global Warming Enthusiasm (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Global Warming Enthusiasm
Rafi
Member
Member # 6930

 - posted      Profile for Rafi   Email Rafi       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
While I don't see why you confine your analysis only to the Pacific, Rafi, there is some merit to your remark.

According to this article in Skeptical Science from 2013, the worldwide trend of the ACE has been pretty much flat, even while surface water temperatures have been increasing.

I wa responding to the reference about typhoons, that's the Pacific. However, as you note, globally ACE has been in below average for a decade or more.

The ARGOS buoy system tells us that sea surface temperatures are decreasing. The decrease is not statistically significant yet but it is a downward trend.

Posts: 793 | Registered: Jul 2014  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Specifically that nihilism with regard to meaning was a null set.
No. You should probably go back and re-read that, since you've misunderstood it. You've misunderstood it here, again, too. A skeptic is someone who disbelieves a source; a nihilist in this context would be someone who believes that the question of a source's validity is irrelevant, since there is no value to truth.

Reread and think harder. You just described the standard definition of a skeptic, whereas i clearly referenced PHILOSOPHICAL SKEPTICISM. what yo. misidentified as epistomological nihilism.

The distinction is much like the difference between atheism and agnosticism. The philo~skeptic doubts that we can derive a certain precise meaning. The epistomological nihilist denies that any such meaning exists.

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
By Greg's brilliant logic, y'all are a bunch of "cafeter5ia climatologists" because you accept some theories and not others.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Greg Davidson
Member
Member # 3377

 - posted      Profile for Greg Davidson   Email Greg Davidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pete, youmiss the point. The reason why "cafeteria" behavior is of much more consequence in the case of Davis is because of the intrinsic claim that she is acting in accordance with the word of G-d. If it turns out that the word of G-d is actually just a menu of choices, that undercuts the Devine nature of the sanction.

Discussion of scientific theory and data does not have a similar underlying principle of being divinely ordained, so it is not as vulnerable to the "cafeteria" criticism.

Posts: 4178 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D.W.
Member
Member # 4370

 - posted      Profile for D.W.   Email D.W.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought it was a typo the first time. What is the significance of "G-d"? Does typing God offend atheist sensibilities or does it mean something? [Razz]
Posts: 4308 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
msquared
Member
Member # 113

 - posted      Profile for msquared   Email msquared   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Many religions, especially orthodox jews I think, do not write the full name of God as they feel it violates the commandment to not take his name in vain.

msquared

Posts: 4002 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
Pete, youmiss the point. The reason why "cafeteria" behavior is of much more consequence in the case of Davis is because of the intrinsic claim that she is acting in accordance with the word of G-d. If it turns out that the word of G-d is actually just a menu of choices, that undercuts the Devine nature of the sanction.

And in your neck of the woods, it's the role of government to tell us what religious choices make up the divine will?

If a Jewish plaintiff brought religious establishment suit against a city government who put a Christmas tree in town square, should we dismiss his suit saying that he's only a "Cafeteria Jew" because he doesn't observe the Jubilees perscribed in the Torah, and therefore his objection to Christmas is not truly religious in nature?

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AI Wessex
Member
Member # 6653

 - posted      Profile for AI Wessex   Email AI Wessex   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
If a Jewish plaintiff brought religious establishment suit against a city government who put a Christmas tree in town square, should we dismiss his suit saying that he's only a "Cafeteria Jew" because he doesn't observe the Jubilees perscribed in the Torah, and therefore his objection to Christmas is not truly religious in nature?
This is exactly why I prefer to use a unicorn metaphor. I imagine that the only way you can find two people who interpret the bible (or any "holy text") in exactly the same way would be because they were brainwashed through a lifetime of rigid indoctrination into thinking in such a way. Otherwise, given the freedom to derive one's own meanings, whatever one believes may be derived from a common text, but is entirely an individual creation.

Words only take meaning in the mind of the reader/hearer; on the page they are only symbols. Each translation of the books of the OT/NT redefines what God and his minions "said". We don't even have modern concepts for what some of the passages in scripture people now absolutely rely on meant when they were first put to the page. One such concept is slavery, where Paul instructed Jesus' followers in Ephesians 6:5-9 as follows:
quote:
Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
Or did he say:
quote:
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
Take your choice, or find different translations of what Paul "said" and ponder the difference between slaves and servants, and why you should serve Christ with fear and trembling. Then wholeheartedly believe what you read.

Davis bore witness to her version of the truth of that passage when she spoke after her release:
quote:
Thank you all so much. I love you all so very much," she said. "I just want to give God the glory. His people have rallied, and you are a strong people. We serve a living God who knows exactly where each and every one of us is at. Just keep on pressing. Don't let down, because he is here. He's worthy.
Is she his servant or his slave, or perhaps a master?
Posts: 8393 | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Greg Davidson
Member
Member # 3377

 - posted      Profile for Greg Davidson   Email Greg Davidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
If a Jewish plaintiff brought religious establishment suit against a city government who put a Christmas tree in town square, should we dismiss his suit saying that he's only a "Cafeteria Jew" because he doesn't observe the Jubilees perscribed in the Torah, and therefore his objection to Christmas is not truly religious in nature?
There are several reasons why this analogy is not on-target. First, this is not about a person saying that their religious beliefs compel them to act deferentially against some citizens. Next, there is nothing in Jewish scripture about Christmas trees, your example is not a violation of religious doctrine, it is about government showing favoritism to one religion over others (by the way, I don't care much about this issue myself). And third, of course all Jews are cafeteria Jews, all practitioners of all religions follow doctrine that has been assembled by choice, and thus any argument over having to take action because it is the inerrant word of G-d are arguable. An individual religious person might take actions because of their understanding of their religious duties, but that is a lesser claim
Posts: 4178 | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D.W.
Member
Member # 4370

 - posted      Profile for D.W.   Email D.W.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks msquared
Posts: 4308 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1