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Author Topic: Trump to clean up politics
Wayward Son
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quote:
All I hear when people say they don't like Trump is that they want open and unsecured borders and they are mad because he says he wants to secure them.
Yeah, about that, cherry. Trump wants to build a wall. Not a fence; a wall. And someone decided to look into what that would entail.

quote:
Twelve million, six hundred thousand cubic yards. In other words, this wall would contain over three times the amount of concrete used to build the Hoover Dam — a project that, unlike Trump’s wall, has qualitative, verifiable economic benefits.

Such a wall would be greater in volume than all six pyramids of the Giza Necropolis — and it is unlikely that a concrete slab in the town of Dead Dog Valley, Texas would inspire the same timeless sense of wonder.

That quantity of concrete could pave a one-lane road from New York to Los Angeles, going the long way around the Earth, which would probably be just as useful.

Concrete, of course, requires reinforcing steel (or rebar). A reasonable estimate for the amount of rebar would be about 3 percent of the total wall size, resulting in a steel volume of 10,190,000 cubic feet, or about 5 billion pounds. We could melt down 4 of our Nimitz-class aircraft carriers and would probably be a few cruisers short of having enough steel.

But the challenge is far greater than simply collecting the necessary raw materials. All of these hundreds of miles of wall would need to be cast in concrete facilities, probably project-specific ones that have been custom built near the border. Then, the pre-cast wall pieces would need to be shipped by truck through the inhospitable, often roadless desert.

The men and women doing the work of actually installing the wall would have to be provided with food, water, shelter, lavatory facilities, safety equipment, transportation, and medical care, and would sometimes be miles away from a population center of any size. Sure, some people would be willing to to do the work, but at what price? Would Trump hire Mexicans?

This analysis also ignores the less sexy aspects of large-scale engineering projects: surveying, land acquisition, environmental review, geological studies, maintenance, excavating for foundations, and so on. Theoretical President Trump may be able to executive-order his way through the laser grid of lawsuits that normally impede this kind of work, but he can’t ignore the physical realities of construction.

Trump’s border wall is not impossible, but it would certainly be a more challenging endeavor than he would ever lead you to believe.

Yeah, he wants to secure the border. But does he have a realistic plan, or is he just mouthing the words? [Wink]
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D.W.
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On the other hand, that's one heck of a jobs program!
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TomDavidson
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgiK07Py9M
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AI Wessex
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quote:
Yeah, about that, cherry. Trump wants to build a wall. Not a fence; a wall. And someone decided to look into what that would entail
My first thought on reading this was the physicist's assessment of Santa's sleigh ride on Christmas Eve.

I'm wondering what exactly Cherry and others want the wall to do. Since the peak in 2007, the number of illegals in the country has fallen and held steady. In other words, they're already here, and not very many are coming any more. Unless you put doors on the wall every couple of miles with a big red EXIT sign, they're not going anywhere.

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Greg Davidson
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quote:
Let's turn it around. We tried it the liberal way. We've had Obama in charge now for many years. And to be blunt, it sucks. He's failed. Internationally he is a failure. In America he is a failure. His policies are failures. Most people are much worse off. Look at all the Starbucks on the street corners replaced by payday loan stores. Massive, epic, fail. Education? Failure. Borders? Failure. Law enforcement? Failure. Peace in the Middle-East? Failure. Good relations with our allies? Failure. Better relations with our enemies? Failure. Real unemployment? Failure. Minority unemployment? Failure. Wages? Failure. Affordable healthcare? Failure. Better race relations? Failure. Upholding the Constitution? Failure. Transparency in government? Failure. Accountability in government? Failure. I mean I could just on and on all day like this. By just about every metric he is a failure.
Wow, Cherry, sounds like the idea of a Trump wall is the last ditch defense of conservatives such as yourself to keep reality from sneaking in.

On Obama's first day he inherited from the Republicans two wars (and the Taliban growing in strength in Pakistan), the biggest economic collapse in 80 years, and a $1.4 trillion annual deficit. The US auto industry was about to collapse and the stock market had collapsed to ~6000. Osama bin Laden was alive and well in a Pakistani suburb. Under Bush, international perceptions of the US had fallen steeply.

Under President Obama, the US has enjoy better economic growth than Europe and Japan. The US auto industry has recovered, including General Motors. The Obama Administration not only recovered the entire $700B TARP bailout, but brought in an additional $50B to shrink the deficit further. Unemployment is down to 5.2%. We have marriage equality and have ended the stupid and dysfunctional policy towards Cuba. Health care costs under Obama, rather than growing at a faster rate, have instead been growing at levels far below the previous 40 year average (and this was accomplished while extending health insurance coverage to almost 20 million more people, preventing over 10,000 unnecessary deaths per year due to lack of medical care)*. And while conservatives such as yourself will never admit it, the success under Obama in shrinking the deficit has even exceeded the campaign promises made by the Republicans who opposed him.

Obama is not perfect, but there is no leader of a major Western nation who has done better than Obama. And he has accomplished this during a period of the most obstinate obstruction by the opposition party since before the Civil War.

And I want to speak bluntly about your allegation regarding race relations in America - racist conservatives in America and the Republican Party are responsible for their own racism. Don't blame Obama for the evil inclination that has bubbled to the surface in startling number of politically active Republicans who continue to believe that Obama is a Muslim noncitizen, that is the ugliness of your own faction and you ought to own it.

* By the way, you never acknowledged all the assertions that you made about Obamacare that proved to be wrong, but the thread is just a few below this one, so the rest of us can see clearly how wrong you could be, and how incapable of acknowledging your mistakes you are.

[ September 25, 2015, 01:21 AM: Message edited by: Greg Davidson ]

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AI Wessex
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quote:
Obama is not perfect...
But he would be much, much closer to that if he did all of those things as a Republican.
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Fenring
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I found an interesting Reddit thread that may tangentially be of interest to those following this one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/3mbmx3/six_years_ago_hitchens_perfectly_predicts_the/

The Hitchens comments in the video are interesting in their own right (but somewhat off topic for this thread). If you sort comments by "best" the top comment is an interesting perspective on why Trump is popular. Here's its full text:

quote:

This supports my theory on why Donald Trump is polling so well. It's not that people actually like him. He's a bombastic ego-maniac. They like the fact that he completely disregards the politically correct police. He doesn't care if people are offended.
People like Trump because he is pushing back against the absurdly politically correct society we've been living in for years. Every week it's another witch hunt against somebody who called a transgender woman "him" or somebody who said "all lives matter" or somebody who dares to claim that Islam isn't very peaceful at this very moment.
Many people have had it with this constant environment of "I'm offended by that so you must stop doing that". Hitchens saw this coming.


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TomDavidson
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Yes, reactionary bigots are going to have reactions. This is not a reason to coddle the ****ers.
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DJQuag
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Who's coddling them? Their votes count the same as anyone else's. Apparently Trump has gained traction with them.
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