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Author Topic: What's the difference?
Fenring
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I don't know what straw manning pertains to intent. All it means is that an argument is levied against a point that is either not of central relevance or else is a weaker version of what the point actually is. A straw man fallacy can be made entirely by accident, by error, by ignorance of what the real point of discussion should be, or as it's suggested, also by dishonesty.
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D.W.
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quote:
A straw man fallacy can be made entirely by accident, by error, by ignorance of what the real point of discussion should be
Good to know, never saw them described as such. Though, to be fair, 90% of my encounters with anyone naming fallacies much less discussing them, is here at Ornery.
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AI Wessex
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Does that surprise you? Where else do you go to engage in "debates" about current events and topics like the ones here? And why are we talking about what a straw man is or means?
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Wayward Son
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quote:
And KMBoots, it's not the far right version of Christianity that is being discussed, its the far left strawman version of it that's under discussion. Plenty do be offended by on doctrinal matters with extremists, but most of these political arguments are about efforts to disallow or dehumanize the beliefs of religious people not about actual efforts to impose those beliefs on anyone.
As far as I can tell, "the far left strawman version of Christianity" is simply the far right version. And the reason it is attacked is because the far right uses its doctrines to justify the dehumanization of those who don't follow it.

If the far right says God tells them to oppose homosexuals and birth control, why shouldn't the left blame that God? [Wink]

[ October 01, 2015, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Wayward Son ]

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kmbboots
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I am still confused about what far-left straw man he means.
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jasonr
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quote:
You know why it's hard to determine what Christians believe?

Because so much is done in their name that they don't support. [Big Grin]

I looked up the percentage of Christians that believe in evolution. Turns out that 86% or so belong to denominations that accept evolution. That's means only 14% or so actually believe in creationism. (This was confirmed by another survey, which showed only about 15% of Christians believe the Earth is only 6000 years old or so.) So we can state categorically that mainstream Christians believe in some form of evolution.

So who is trying to force creationism into our High School biology classes? [Wink]

Christians are not denouncing creationists, or at least not loudly enough. Christians are not denouncing those pushing for the absolute banning of abortion (including in cases of rape and incest). Christians are not denouncing teacher-lead prayers in schools. And those advocating them call themselves Christians.

And politicians are pandering to these Christians.

If Christians allow, even if they don't approve, these actions of fellow Christians, what is a non-Christian supposed to think? Especially those who do denounce these things? Should we consider them allies? Or are they aligned with those Christians who believe these things?

You keep telling me that, if you knew more, you'd know that Christians are not like those radicals that are routinely interviewed by the news media. But we're not hearing that side. We're not hearing the major pastors denouncing other pastors. We hear--quiet.

The Bible says that those who are not for God are against God, and those who are not against God are for God. But where do mainstream Christians stand on women's rights, helping the poor, the right of women to control their own bodies, the teaching of science, and such? Are mainstream Christians for or against these things?

I've long thought that people tacitly support groups that they may not even agree with, but who represent a purity of belief that people may implicitly admire. One can align oneself with a certain group without necessarily believing everything that group believes. One can hold secular views, but still hold residual allegiance to co-religionists who one secretely regards as more pious or authentic.

I do think there is an interesting parallel here to what we see with radical Islamists, and the so-called "moderates" who enable those groups.

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