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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Hey, President Obama? The 1980s just called. (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Hey, President Obama? The 1980s just called.
NobleHunter
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All three were also pre-existing nations and not post-colonial jigsaws. More to the point, American troops were there to provide security against external threats or at least threats with neat recognizable borders. They weren't there to provide stability or internal security.
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AI Wessex
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If post-conflict occupation has such a strong history, and given the inherent level of conflict in the Mideast, why did Bush negotiate away our troop presence?
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
If post-conflict occupation has such a strong history, and given the inherent level of conflict in the Mideast, why did Bush negotiate away our troop presence?

Because building up Iraq was never a real objective, it was a lie.
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AI Wessex
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Hmmm, that is exactly what I have always believed was the *real* objective all along.
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EDanaII
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quote:
Define what you mean by "fall apart"? Several hundred thousand Iraqis died in Sunni/Shiite fighting after President Bush landed on carrier with the "Mission Accomplished" banner. That's more people than have been killed in Iraq since the rise of ISIS.

And you surely don't believe in the definition of stability you state, because then you would have to conclude that France achieved "stability" in 1939 after the Fall of Poland because there was no further war for a year.

Right... "It wasn't stable before so it can't be any MORE unstable now..." [Roll Eyes]
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AI Wessex
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It's definitely feeling the brunt of what was subsurface instability that was never far from erupting. IMO, we got out before the dam burst and we couldn't have stopped it. But I'll ask you the same question I've asked here many times before without receiving an answer: Realistically, what could/should we have done instead then (meaning in 2008 when Bush signed the agreement to withdraw our troops in 2010), what should we be doing now, and what should we be planning on doing in Iraq in 3-5 years.

Second question, when will the Middle East become safe from extremism?

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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
It's definitely feeling the brunt of what was subsurface instability that was never far from erupting. IMO, we got out before the dam burst and we couldn't have stopped it. But I'll ask you the same question I've asked here many times before without receiving an answer: Realistically, what could/should we have done instead then (meaning in 2008 when Bush signed the agreement to withdraw our troops in 2010), what should we be doing now, and what should we be planning on doing in Iraq in 3-5 years.

Since there was never an honest intention of maintaining a permanent presence to stabilize the country, any kind of plan to leave a few years earlier or later wouldn't have made much difference, no. Once the invasion was done there wasn't that much more to talk about of relevance.

quote:
Second question, when will the Middle East become safe from extremism?
Without a big boy the small boys fight for power, like gangs. Before the FBI was strong the mob and other criminals were a legitimate power. Once the FBI became the big boy in town no one else could compete directly with force (if you can't beat 'em, join 'em). In the mid-East when big boys are removed it creates a playground for would-be warlords. The moral might be that stability requires...stable governments. Which sort of requires not knocking down any government that is 'evil.'

Oh yeah, it also helps when American allies don't directly fund the terrorists.

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Greg Davidson
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Disbanding the Iraqi Army, which happened with little thought in 2003, was the single worst decision after the decision to invade.

And by a Reublican Administration proud to be ignorant about what they derided as "nation-building"

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