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Author Topic: Mortality rate rises for middle aged, high school educated white men
Fenring
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I'm suggesting that white people may have less of a tendency to associate themselves as being in a group membership than other people do, which, as a part of their psychological support structure, might make them feel more isolated. This is not a complaint because I'm not saying it should be different. As an analogy I can tell you that people who live in a big city report feeling much more isolated and alone in a sea of people than do those who live in smaller towns or communities. You can list all the social clubs you like in those big cities but the reality is that something about being part of a huge, unseen group of people ends up feeling like not being part of a group at all. But it would be a mistake for me citing this to be construed as an objection to cities!
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kmbboots
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But there are lots of groups/communities that white men can be part of. Ethnic heritage, religious, sports, hobbies, whatever. The only ones denied them in recent years - or denied them if they don't want to be racist - are racist ones.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Again you're saying things that make sense to you on paper, but we're talking about people who are suicidal and these people are going to be thinking about what they have in life going for them. This is a conscious deliberate (if skewed) process and if they are unaware of something that affects them it won't help their morale when they consider their options. And that's granting fully that what you say is accurate, which I certainly think it isn't.

That would effectively be looking for a way to get it to count double then. It's already part of their baseline, and what's notable here is that economic conditions are eating away at the way that it has otherwise kept them better than the average. Your effectively suggesting that there should be a way for them to get the benefits of tactics to mitigate not being part of the majority network on top of the benefits of being part of the majority network.

It amounts to: "Since crutches help people with broken legs walk better, then people with healthy legs should use crutches to walk better too" missing the fact that not having a broken leg is a far better starting point than the crutch lets people get to.

As for the impersonal nature of cities, that's not a feature inherent to cities- that's a feature of our post-50's "nuclear" culture that tosses people into cities by themselves instead of living in neighborhoods surrounded by families and long time family associates. IT has little to do with racial or cultural identity directly (except in as much as there is a correlation between race/culture and those who can't afford to move away from those networks) And again, the problem comes down to something that having access to money has been offering, and thus starts to have a real, pernicious effect when economic downturns suddenly remove people's ability to afford to compensate.

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Fenring
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As I mentioned to kmbboots, there was no "should" in my comment, and therefore your description of me "looking for a way" to do anything is not accurate. Also the city description was an analogy, not a commentary on race or culture.
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kmbboots
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What group membership opportunity do you think that white men used to have that has been taken away from them?

[ November 05, 2015, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
What group membership opportunity do you think that white men used to have that has been taken away from them?

Um...I guess I can only say this one more time and then quit. It's not about a material opportunity! I'm talking about sense of identity.

Anyhow I find it funny that there are such attempts to refute this suggestion since I was just offering up possibilities to help answer Greg's question.

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kmbboots
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Okay. What sense of identity do you think has been taken away from them?
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Okay. What sense of identity do you think has been taken away from them?

I think tribalism among whites used to be far more pronounced than it is now. The old rivalries and prejudices about the European roots created a sort of bond among people, where the downside was obviously prejudice and animosity, but where the upside was a strong sense of group membership and camaraderie, even family. The same goes for legit white supremacy, which for all its faults carried with it the same cushion of comfort for those who were 'in.' I may be going off on a limb but I suspect that white history in America tended to have group membership on nationalist lines in a divisive way and that there was never an all-inclusive sense of belonging among whites in general. In the south the white-black divide may have created a sort of bond among certain whites, but that time has largely passed as well. As whites of different backgrounds learned to co-exist I think the tribalism settled, but other than the early revolutionary period there may have been nothing cohesive to bond white people together in spirit such as enduring slavery would have done for the blacks. This isn't to say that there aren't internal rivalries among black people as well, but all the black people I know seem to at least identify as black in a cultural sense exterior even to any particular group within the black community they may occupy (such as Dominicans, people of African descent, etc.).

I'm just throwing out ideas, by the way, I can't say I'm 100% sure about any of this.

[ November 05, 2015, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Fenring ]

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jasonr
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Fenring's hypothesis sounds reasonable to me. It's pure speculation of course, but it has some ring of truth to it.

The "privilege" narrative essentially ascribes advantage to being, for lack of a better word, generic, i.e. having one's own identity be the invisible default.

Yet even accepting the privilege hypothesis at face value and taking it as entirely correct on its own terms, it is certainly possible that there could be a disadvantage to having a largely invisible, 'generic' identity.

It's not something I can relate to, despite being "white", because I happen to be Jewish too, and Jews have stubbornly maintained a very well established identity, even as anti semitism receded and intermarriage became commonplace. Indeed, I am married to a non Jew myself and virtually no religious inclination, yet I will confess a certain cultural affinity for other Jews that does give me a certain bedrock sense of community, wherever I am. There is a certain comfort in knowing that wherever in the world I might be, I belong to a certain "club", that I could be walking through some strange City anywhere and there is a place where people will recognize me as kindred, no questions asked.

Whether that translates into a lessened chance of suicide - damned if I know.

[ November 05, 2015, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
As I mentioned to kmbboots, there was no "should" in my comment, and therefore your description of me "looking for a way" to do anything is not accurate. Also the city description was an analogy, not a commentary on race or culture.

It doesn't need a should to be doing something in effect. The identity benefit is there, even if it's so taken for granted that people don't notice it. There are certainly other factors that may play into isolation, but racial/cultural identity isn't one of them because all the benefits from it and then some come directly from the sense of being normal. One only needs to create an sense of belonging along identity lines when society denied them that because of their identity. Being part of the default majority means that you enjoy all of the benefits of belonging based on your identity without ever even needing to be aware of it.

If you never feel that your race makes it such that you don't belong, there's no net benefit from carving out a sense of belonging to a group based on your race (and, in fact, attempting to do so only serves to push less favored racial identities further away from being accepted as normal)

The city parallel fails abjectly because those people don't feel isolated because they live in a city among a large number of other people; the feel isolated because they've chosen to isolate themselves from large social networks in favor of living alone and trying to rebuild generations of social wealth on the fly. They've separated themselves from their primary social supports. Being part of the majority is like lining in an active social and familial network, regardless of whether its in a city or small town. When people feel isolated in cities, it's specifically because they've been separated from an environment where they're part of a social majority and now have effectively made themselves a small, isolated minority. The racial parallel would be effectively moving to another country where they're the only member of their race and culture.

Being a member of a racial majority is like living in a neighborhood where your family and family friends have lived for generations, whether it's in a small town or a big city. You have all the benefits of a family network without having to make any effort to build it, or even needing to be aware of the struggle of others to find a similar environment. The person feeling isolated in the city is equivalent to a minority- someone living among a bunch of people that they are alienated from and struggling to carve out a small semblance of the family and social network that the person who lives as part of the majority takes for granted.

The ultimate degree of connection or alienation a person feels is an intersection of all possible factors in identity- you can't isolate just one where they happen to be in the majority and claim to debunk the benefits gained from that connection just because other unrelated factors happen to outweigh it in that case. A white person who feels isolated in a city feels that way despite having a leg up on feeling connected based on race. A minority who was otherwise in an exactly equivalent position would feel even less connected and have an even greater need to try to compensate for their assembled factors that contribute to alienation.

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jasonr
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Pyr once again you're tilting at windmills. We could happily try to debunk your privilege narrative but fortunately there is no need because it is irrelevent. Virtually everything you said could be true and it doesn't undermine Fenring's point in the slightest.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
We could happily try to debunk your privilege narrative but fortunately there is no need because it is irrelevent. Virtually everything you said could be true and it doesn't undermine Fenring's point in the slightest.
Which is to say, you have no idea what you're talking about but you're going to say I'm wrong just for the sake of proclaiming me wrong. I guess that's at lest less tedious than "debunking" through misrepresentation.

The primary point that Fenrig fails on is conflating the relative change in rate with absolute rates. The absolute rate for that contingent is still far lower than for the similar minority contingents, even after the slight increase. You hit it directly here:

quote:
. There is a certain comfort in knowing that wherever in the world I might be, I belong to a certain "club", that I could be walking through some strange City anywhere and there is a place where people will recognize me as kindred, no questions asked.
Just about anywhere in the US, white people expect that as a result of being the default race to the point that it's only exceptional where they don't find that as the natural default wherever they go without any effort at all. They expect that to be the natural state wherever the go, not as fallback to compensate for otherwise being actively set apart from the baseline for normal.

The only reason that the increase in death rate happens to correlate to that class of white people is because that class of white people are the ones that were most actively affected by the economic shifts. Minorities were "sheltered" from it as a result of already having that lower economic standing doing about as much damage as it could ahead of time. On the other hand, they gain benefit from racial/ethnic identity specifically because it shields them from the negative effects of being excluded from the dominant identity; they get that same comfort out of the box without having to make any effort at all to find an identity to provide it.

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jasonr
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quote:
The primary point that Fenrig fails on is conflating the relative change in rate with absolute rates. The absolute rate for that contingent is still far lower than for the similar minority contingents, even after the slight increase. You hit it directly here:
Fenring didn't "fail" in that point because it's irrelevent. You repeatedly demonstrate you don't understand what is being argued. You say you do, but you don't.
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kmbboots
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It is a bit like fish complaining that they don't remember to take showers because they are already wet.

[ November 06, 2015, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by jasonr:
quote:
The primary point that Fenrig fails on is conflating the relative change in rate with absolute rates. The absolute rate for that contingent is still far lower than for the similar minority contingents, even after the slight increase. You hit it directly here:
Fenring didn't "fail" in that point because it's irrelevent. You repeatedly demonstrate you don't understand what is being argued. You say you do, but you don't.
Even the mention of anything to do with "absolute rates" is already the wrong conversation entirely. I pretty much said explicitly several times that the actual infrastructure or opportunities for while people has nothing to do with what I'm getting at.

It is entirely possible, for instance, to have a net increase in real opportunities and infrastructure for someone and yet for that person to feel that he's worse off and has experienced a loss. Not only is the relationship between material opportunities and perception not tied to each other, but in fact there is a such thing as experiencing loss as a real thing even though from someone else's perspective you've experienced what they would think of as a gain. Morale is a completely different kettle of fish than one's economic standing. People who have money and a job can be suicidal too. Pointing out someone's absolute rate of advantage is so beyond irrelevant to his internal morale that it's really quite insulting to think that someone could think to point out a few macro factors and announce what the person's morale ought to be as a result. Once again conflating statistical methods with an individual person's psyche; terrible approach to an analysis of thinking.

Also note that Greg's question posed reasons why suicide rates are as they are. The premise that such reasons must be rational and logical ones is likewise a big error. Even if Pyr is right that white people ought to feel more supported by their social setup that doesn't at all translate to it them actually feeling that way. It just means you could explain some facts to them that they might well just reply by saying that nevertheless it doesn't feel that way to them.

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kmbboots
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Of course. But acknowledging that it doesn't make sense - which is not the same as denying it may exist - is an important factor in how we respond. There is a big difference between saying that white men have no support and saying that white men don't recognize or take advantage of the support they have.
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Of course. But acknowledging that it doesn't make sense - which is not the same as denying it may exist - is an important factor in how we respond. There is a big difference between saying that white men have no support and saying that white men don't recognize or take advantage of the support they have.

Even so you've created a false dilemma, where they either 'have something to cry about' or actually 'have nothing to cry about', and it's about educating them about their reality. In fact reality in this sense isn't objective or unilateral. You can't take one person's calculus of what should make someone feel good or what counts as a support structure and prescriptively apply it to someone else. You can guess, or use averages to try your best, but none of that addresses why a given person is suicidal. After all, it's not "white men" that are suicidal, but "suicidal white men" that are suicidal. That small semantic difference is everything.

All I'm saying is that I bet a lot of white people feel cultureless, in a sense. Even the vague "American culture" that used to be a source of pride - which might have included capitalistic pride, pride at being the 'good guys' in the Cold War, and even pride at being an economic superpower - all of this is at best grey these days which even furthers the decline in sense of culture as a unifying thing. Black people still have 'black culture', as an example, even despite the loss of "American culture", but I doubt white people have an equivalent. jasonr quite rightly pointed out the good feeling someone can having being part of a "club", but if a white person isn't Jewish, or part of some specific affiliation like that (religious or national) then I don't really see what else there is on a broad scale they could associate with.

ETA - I should mention that on the balance I think the decline in economy is more likely to be a large contributor to the suicide rate, but I wouldn't want to make an undemonstrated claim as Pyr did just before to suggest that this is the only factor involved.

[ November 06, 2015, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: Fenring ]

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
It is entirely possible, for instance, to have a net increase in real opportunities and infrastructure for someone and yet for that person to feel that he's worse off and has experienced a loss. Not only is the relationship between material opportunities and perception not tied to each other, but in fact there is a such thing as experiencing loss as a real thing even though from someone else's perspective you've experienced what they would think of as a gain. Morale is a completely different kettle of fish than one's economic standing. People who have money and a job can be suicidal too. Pointing out someone's absolute rate of advantage is so beyond irrelevant to his internal morale that it's really quite insulting to think that someone could think to point out a few macro factors and announce what the person's morale ought to be as a result.
And yet, we can see, by looking at the absolute rates, that morale is clearly much higher among the segment of population that experienced the slight loss, so it makes no sense to claim that it's possible that their moral is low because of a lack of racial or ethnic identity, without even getting to the bizarre suggestion that backing way from rallying around abusive attitudes amounts to such an identity. That's not gaining a benefit from feeling like you're part of an identity, that's gaining a benefit from degrading and oppressing others.

The average white person in the US doesn't understand what it's like to not have the benefit of such an identity because they're so accustomed to receiving it by default. They always feel like they're in the club; what they don't have a sense of is what it feels like to not be in the club; to an the outsider looking for a club to give a similar benefit.

The only change over that period of time was economic- and those that were affected and had somewhere to fall as showing the evidence of having fallen. The fact that minority status correlated to "didn't have far to fall anyway" doesn't mean that racial identity was a protection against falling, it just means that those people had already taken that fall long before.

(Similarly, Pittsburgh didn't see as big a hit from the financial crisis; not because something about Pittsburgh identity, even though that's strong, protected people from it, but because Pittsburgh suffered the same general collapse a decade or two before and has been slowly recovering from it, so it didn't feel nearly the same degree of pain as those that hadn't yet fallen did. It's particular urban identity was totally incidental, and certainly isn't evidence that those cities that were severely affected somehow lack their own urban identities)

White people in the US don't lack the benefit of felling include because of their race- the just generally don't have a sense of what it's actually like to be actively alienated based on race to understand the contrast with situations where that sense of membership isn't something they can take for granted.

Jasonr certainly does note that he can identify with the feeling along ethnic/religious lines, which is compensated for by identifying with others that share that identity, but then jumps to claiming that that arises from a lack of identity, rather than from a lack of feeling alienation _because of skin color_ that needs to find another source of inclusion to fall back on.

The loss of morale based on racial identity comes from the degree to which society alienates that racial identity. Alternate racial identities can compensate for that loss, they don't magically create more morale from a point where there was no loss to begin with and have no bearing on losses from other orthogonal sources of pain.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
All I'm saying is that I bet a lot of white people feel cultureless, in a sense.
Most white people don't understand what feeling cultureless or culturally excluded actually feels like. They can cite that lack of understanding as not feeling like they're part of a culture, but, per kmboots above, it's absolutely wrong, just like a fish swimming in a lake would be wrong to suggest that the water was feeling awfully dry.
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Pyrtolin
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Trying to sort out another way to put it- If you don't have a headache, no amount of painkiller is going to give you a sense of relief from having a headache. IF you've never had a headache in the first place, you're already experiencing all the possible benefits that the painkiller could give without taking any at all. Now if you're feeling pain elsewhere, say because you stubbed your toe, then there be a treatment to help with that, but trying to call it a headache just because it's some form of pain, isn't accurate.

Being the default race is being in the state of lacking a headache. There is no alienation or lack of a sense of inclusion _sue to race_ to be amerolated by finding another racial club to be part of.

That doesn't mean that white people don't feel alienated because of other elements, but trying to point to lack of racial or cultural identity isn't it, because they're swimming so deeply in it that they don't even understand what it is that they're benefiting from.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
There is a big difference between saying that white men have no support and saying that white men don't recognize or take advantage of the support they have.

What support do whites in general, and white men specifically, have? In American culture, white men are the one group it's okay to hate. Threatening to kill white people is largely tolerated. If a white male complains, he's laughed out of the room or branded a racist and targeted for personal destruction. Probably both. Any non- white sticking up for them will be labeled a Uncle Tom and similarly destroyed.
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Wayward Son
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Obviously, Rafi, you're white. [Smile]
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
There is a big difference between saying that white men have no support and saying that white men don't recognize or take advantage of the support they have.

What support do whites in general, and white men specifically, have? In American culture, white men are the one group it's okay to hate. Threatening to kill white people is largely tolerated. If a white male complains, he's laughed out of the room or branded a racist and targeted for personal destruction. Probably both. Any non- white sticking up for them will be labeled a Uncle Tom and similarly destroyed.
Maybe you should try again without a string of false assertions. Heck just being able to believe such absurd lies and cry foul when called, dishonestly calling such criticism "hate" or the like. And are you seriously trying to weigh the possibility that you might be laughed or called on racism if you act in an ignorant or harmful way against the possibility that a similar mistake might end up with a minority group abused or dead?
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kmbboots
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quote:
]qb]What support do whites in general, and white men specifically, have? In American culture, white men are the one group it's okay to hate. Threatening to kill white people is largely tolerated. If a white male complains, he's laughed out of the room or branded a racist and targeted for personal destruction. Probably both. Any non- white sticking up for them will be labeled a Uncle Tom and similarly destroyed. [/QB]
That, Fenring, is what you are encouraging.
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Greg Davidson
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Here's a theory that I just heard that definitely might be wrong (I have no evidence to support this), but it at least posits a plausible cause.

Is it possible that in decades past there was greater availability of social welfare programs, and also a higher share of white males in the group we are describing may have had some form of pension from where they had worked? My sense is that such benefits have been on the decline over the past 20 years (while I imagine social security benefits are pacing inflation, for white males in their 50s and early 60s there are likely to be fewer options).

I don't know the facts here, so I am 100%willing to hear this theory supported or rebutted by evidence, and I don't have any particular stake in defending it.

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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
What support do whites in general, and white men specifically, have? In American culture, white men are the one group it's okay to hate. Threatening to kill white people is largely tolerated. If a white male complains, he's laughed out of the room or branded a racist and targeted for personal destruction. Probably both. Any non- white sticking up for them will be labeled a Uncle Tom and similarly destroyed.
That, Fenring, is what you are encouraging.
I will put it to you that rhetoric that is effectively anti-white such as Pyr demonstrates is what provokes reactions such as Rafi's. In a world such as Rafi describes no white man is without privilege, white men have no headaches compared with anyone else, the only possible racism that can occur (by definition) emanates from whites and oppresses everyone else, and no matter what situation any white man is in he's still the beneficiary of all kinds of invisible advantages. I mean, just Pyr's comment alone that white men are without headaches is monumentally offensive. He's going to take a statistical average from a group and then say that this is true for every white male? And worse, his claim is ridiculous by definition because we are discussing an a posteriori fact that these white men committed suicide! Obviously they were upset about something. I find it amazing that someone can state with authority exactly what one thing that was and can likewise exclude other possibilities out of hand on account of some social justice theory.

Notwithstanding that there is a shred of truth to these general notions in terms of whites having had a better situation in America and so forth, even I can't help but feel the picture being painted by all these descriptions is a bigoted one and one whose dissemination can't possibly serve to bring people together. I can entirely sympathize with anyone who reads such diatribes and comes to the conclusion that the racism has been reversed and that now whites are the new target. This may not be an entirely accurate perception of what's happening, and yet that position is supplied with far too much credibility by those who cannot speak about race relations and economics in moderate terms.

I mean, jeez, my point was that whites may have a little area where they may have lower morale than a black person would, and people jump all over this because it's apparently anathema to even suggest that white are anything other than supreme and advantaged in every conceivable way. Just on this basis do you not recognize that there must be some sort of confirmation bias occurring where the preconceived narrative is the only one that will be accepted as valid?

[ November 06, 2015, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: Fenring ]

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Obviously, Rafi, you're white. [Smile]

See, it didn't take long to prove my point.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
There is a big difference between saying that white men have no support and saying that white men don't recognize or take advantage of the support they have.

What support do whites in general, and white men specifically, have? In American culture, white men are the one group it's okay to hate. Threatening to kill white people is largely tolerated. If a white male complains, he's laughed out of the room or branded a racist and targeted for personal destruction. Probably both. Any non- white sticking up for them will be labeled a Uncle Tom and similarly destroyed.
Maybe you should try again without a string of false assertions. Heck just being able to believe such absurd lies and cry foul when called, dishonestly calling such criticism "hate" or the like. And are you seriously trying to weigh the possibility that you might be laughed or called on racism if you act in an ignorant or harmful way against the possibility that a similar mistake might end up with a minority group abused or dead?
Another proof of my point. Here's more:
quote:
In appealing to the Koran, Farrakhan said, "Retaliation is a prescription from God to calm the breasts of those whose children have been slain. So if the federal government will not intercede in our affairs, then we must rise up and kill those who kill us. Stalk them and kill them and let them feel the pain of death ...
quote:
Members of the #FYF911 or #FukYoFlag and #BlackLivesMatter movements called for the lynching and hanging of white people and cops. They encouraged others on a radio show Tuesday night to “turn the tide” and kill white people and cops to send a message about the killing of black people in America.
quote:
This woman has done nothing wrong. Besides, she only wants to kill cops and white people in self-defense. What the hell is wrong with that, you damn racists?

#BlackLivesMatter. Free Latausha

There's plenty more but with the two of you already demonstrating it and the above, I think we see reality now.
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TomDavidson
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Yeah, G#, you probably shouldn't trust Breitbart for that stuff.
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Rafi
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More trolling. Guess a troll's gotta troll. [Roll Eyes]

[ November 07, 2015, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Rafi ]

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AI Wessex
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Obviously, Rafi, you're white. [Smile]

See, it didn't take long to prove my point.
Everything that doesn't echo what you say serves that purpose for you, and everything that does, too.
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TomDavidson
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Again, G#, what about pointing out that Breitbart is an infamously inaccurate source of "news" constitutes trolling? And what do you think you gain by asserting as much?
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Fenring
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Er, brief clarification on my previous post that may have been really confusing, the end of the first line should read:

"In a world such as PYR describes no white man is without privilege..."

You probably guessed anyhow, but...sorry about that.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Again, G#, what about pointing out that Breitbart is an infamously inaccurate source of "news" constitutes trolling? And what do you think you gain by asserting as much?

If all you're gonna do is troll, why do anything at all? [Roll Eyes]
quote:
Why do trolls behave the way they do? Two studies published in the September 2014 issue of Personality and Individual Differences seek to answer that question. The studies examined personality traits and commenting styles of 1,215 people and found that the trolls had personality traits that exactly lined up with what is known as the “Dark Tetrad” of personality traits: sadism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism, a psychological term used to describe those who manipulate and trick others for personal gain.
Rafi: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 07, 2015, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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TomDavidson
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So, specifically, you do not believe that noting that Breitbart is infamously and often willfully inaccurate -- and that your entire post is sourced from Breitbart -- is a legitimate line of discourse?
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jasonr
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quote:
He's going to take a statistical average from a group and then say that this is true for every white male? And worse, his claim is ridiculous by definition because we are discussing an a posteriori fact that these white men committed suicide! Obviously they were upset about something. I find it amazing that someone can state with authority exactly what one thing that was and can likewise exclude other possibilities out of hand on account of some social justice theory.
See, as stupid as the privilege discourse is(and it's pretty stupid) the funny thing is that there's really no conflict between it and any hypothesis about decreased white life expectancy that has been described on this thread. I fully believe that a person can subscribe to Pyr's ideology and yet acknowledge the obvious truth that relatively privileged populations can experience problems that may not effect less privileged populations, or may effect them in different ways.

However, Pyr's understanding of human behaviour is, frankly, autistic. If a rich white girl was anorexic and ravaged by malnutrition, he'd wag his finger in her face and explain to her sincerely that she's not really sick because she plainly has access to ample food relative to black urban social housing dwellers.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
If a rich white girl was anorexic and ravaged by malnutrition, he'd wag his finger in her face and explain to her sincerely that she's not really sick because she plainly has access to ample food relative to black urban social housing dwellers.
I think that's blatantly false.
More likely is that if she were to say something like, "All this effort to give black people food and healthcare, and there's no support for me?" he would point out that she has a number of support networks and, moreover, is not actually suffering from a lack of access to food but rather a disinclination to eat it.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
So, specifically, you do not believe that noting that Breitbart is infamously and often willfully inaccurate -- and that your entire post is sourced from Breitbart -- is a legitimate line of discourse?

Damn bro, you just gotta troll. Start referring to you as TrollDavidson.

Tell you what troll, prove the entire post came from one source. It's gonna be tough because one of the, came from USA Today but I'm thinking a little thing like facts is kind of irrelevant to your need to troll.

Prove your claim, forum troll. If you don't, everyone will know you've been lying to them repeatedly.

Rafi: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 07, 2015, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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TomDavidson
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*laugh* I think it's amusing that you think doubling down on this particular play is going to help you in some way. Why?
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OrneryMod
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Rafi: I am unable to contact you at the email address associated with your account. Please update your account with your current email address and contact me at OrneryModerator@hotmail.com.
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