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Author Topic: Alcoholism accounts for vast majority of alcohol sales
LetterRip
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The top 10% of US adults (24 million) consume an average 74 drinks a week. (Her numbers might be wrong - I've seen it reported as the top decile of adult drinkers, and there are 30% of the population is non drinkers. So 240 million - 72 million = 168 million * 10% = 16.8 million)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/

The number with an 'alcohol use disorder' is 16.5 million is 2013, which is fairly close to the above number that I calculated.

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics

Hmm most of the next decile though still seems to drink enough that it would fall under alcohol abuse, so that number seems to understate? I wonder how they are arriving at it.

Apparently alcohol consumption follows the pareto rule - 20% of drinkers consume 80% of the alcohol. So if all of the alcoholics dropped their consumption to the 9th decile (ie not quit drinking just cut back to the next highest level). Alcohol consumption would fall by 60%

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2014/10/05/the-alcohol-industry-needs-alcoholism-to-thrive/

Thus the vast majority of alcohol sales comes from alcoholism.

Also 10% of the adult population is in recovery.

http://www.drugfree.org/newsroom/survey-ten-percent-of-american-adults-report-being-in-recovery-from-substance-abuse-or-addiction/


And 29.1% of the population would have qualified as having Alcohol Use Disorder at some point in their lifetime.

quote:
“We found that 13.9 percent of adults met DSM-5 AUD criteria for the previous year, while 29.1 percent met AUD criteria at some time in their life,” said Grant. “Only 19.8 percent of adults with lifetime alcohol use disorder sought treatment or help, while 7.7 percent of those with a 12-month alcohol use disorder sought treatment. Perhaps most importantly, we saw large increases in DSM-IV alcohol use disorder rates over the last decade.”

Criteria for an AUD include having strong cravings for alcohol, making unsuccessful attempts to cut back on drinking, and alcohol use causing problems at home, work or school.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2015/06/04/study-nearly-one-third-of-us-adults-have-alcohol-use-disorder/

[ November 06, 2015, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

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LetterRip
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Very deceptive study by the CDC, they concluded

quote:
Most excessive drinkers (90%) did not meet the criteria for alcohol dependence.
But then we look at their definition of 'excessive drinkers',

quote:
Excessive drinking was defined as binge drinking; heavy drinking; any past 30-day drinking by respondents aged 18 to 20 (who are under the minimum legal drinking age) if not already included in another drinking category; or any past 30-day alcohol consumption by pregnant women (1).
http://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2014/14_0329.htm

So any drinking by 18 to 20 year olds and any drinking by pregnant women (this runs into the problem that a women could have drank before she was pregnant; and that low levels of alcohol consumption by pregnant women has no detectable harm and is likely not harmful).

quote:
In the UK, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recommends women don’t drink at all in the first three months of pregnancy, but says up to two drinks per day twice per week seems acceptable. Danish articles, by comparison, found no cognitive differences between five-year-old children whose mothers drank moderately in early pregnancy and those whose mothers didn’t.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/19/pregnant-women-alcohol-pediatric-study

So by choosing a definition of excessive drinking that includes drinking that can't reasonably be considered excessive, they conclude that many excessive drinkers aren't alcohol dependent. What a joke of a study.

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Rafi
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An average of 74 drinks a week. So, what's the problem with that? Average joe, sitting at home, pounding them down, that's okay? How about a doctor? Police officer? Elected official? Pilot? Bus driver? At that volume, I'm not sure you ever get 100% sober so is there problem?
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Sa'eed
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Yea that's crazy.

Curious how the only reason alcohol is legal in the USA isn't because Americans are a freedom loving bunch but because due to an accident of physics it's really easy to make your own alcohol from regular farm and grocery store items and the government just decided to be practical and tolerate alcohol.

Marijuana, which is far less harmful than alcohol, is harder to produce such that under its prohibition it isn't really economically feasible to grow the stuff in your own home and make a profit. So prohibition is mostly (though not entirely) effective.

What makes the push for legal marijuana different from the push to end alcohol prohibition is the former is a plea for freedom disguised as a plea for practicality.

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Pete at Home
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" http://www.drugfree.org/newsroom/survey-ten-percent-of-american-adults-report-being-in-recovery-from-substance-abuse-or-addiction/ "

Good thread topic LR. My guess is that if we added up the alcoh0ol related deaths and prosecutions, they would dwarf the prohibition era stats, even if we sliced for proportions. I suspect.that the reason we vilify prohibition today is the same reason that historians falsely protray general sherman as more murderous or destructive than other civil war generals: BECAUSE PROHIBITION LIKE SHERMAN TARGETED THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL.

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Sa'eed
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Prohibition was a nice idea but the material nature of alcohol itself got in the way. How honestly could something be forbidden if it can easily be produced in a bathtub using grocery store items? And why would you create a market condition where disobeying the law like that could be profitable?

By sheer utter luck hard drugs (those we know of anyway) are not so easy to produce by the average person, and this includes cannabis, at least here in the United States where government authority on such matters is strongly asserted.

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AI Wessex
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I bet nobody ever makes alcohol in their bathtub or in their NASCAR stills like in the old days so they can save a few dollars. Cocaine was popular and legal during the early years of prohibition and available on the black market through the end of prohibition and ever since. Things like meth and other manufactured drugs had not yet been invented, so none could have been made by ordinary people. Marijuana was not commonly used during that period, but ever since the '60s people have grown marijuana in their basements, lofts or yards.

I think the problem specific to alcohol was its historical ubiquity in virtually every culture over hundreds or thousands of years. It has always been a lot more than an intoxicant, so the prohibition hit people's lives at many levels.

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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
" http://www.drugfree.org/newsroom/survey-ten-percent-of-american-adults-report-being-in-recovery-from-substance-abuse-or-addiction/ "

Good thread topic LR. My guess is that if we added up the alcoh0ol related deaths and prosecutions, they would dwarf the prohibition era stats, even if we sliced for proportions. I suspect.that the reason we vilify prohibition today is the same reason that historians falsely protray general sherman as more murderous or destructive than other civil war generals: BECAUSE PROHIBITION LIKE SHERMAN TARGETED THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL.

What kind of stats do we have from the prohibition era?

Why do you think alcohol is a worse problem today than it was theN?

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Pete at Home
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I am not calling for a return to prohibition. Just saying with a nod to sherman, that when the 1%s interests are impacted, that we cant really trust the history books. Prohibition ended because it hurt the 1%. Whether it was good or bad for the 99% is more than I can say without further study. But how else can you explain why booze is legal and pot isnt?
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Pete at Home
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"Why do you think alcohol is a worse problem today than it was theN"

Anecdotal exposure from crim law and AA. Memory of friends now dead. The stats cited by LR. Nothing empirical. Other than the fact that jail and prison space did not even exist back then to hold the percentage of the population now incarcerated for alcohol related crimes.

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scifibum
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Well, I think Al has it right. Booze is more entrenched. It's tied up with culinary and celebratory traditions.

But you are making a good point too. It might change over the next generation or so, but I think alcohol definitely seems to be more demographically ubiquitous, and expensive alcohol is a status symbol in addition to being an addictive drug.

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Pete at Home
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"I bet nobody ever makes alcohol in their bathtub or in their NASCAR stills like in the old days so they can save a few dollars"

Fortunately i gave up gambling with alcohol else you would lose that bet, Al. See my hooch making thread on Ornery University. 5 gallon water jug, watmed by bathwater, in the bathtub. Champagne yeast to take the mix to 18%. Kept me drunk for a week when the lights were out, until a bacteria strain snuck in that I couldnt hold down.

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NobleHunter
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The OP feels right, even without the numbers. It's one reason why I don't support arguments for privatizing the Liquor Control Board of Ontario (LCBO) based lowering prices.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Sa'eed:
Prohibition was a nice idea but the material nature of alcohol itself got in the way. How honestly could something be forbidden if it can easily be produced in a bathtub using grocery store items? And why would you create a market condition where disobeying the law like that could be profitable?

By sheer utter luck hard drugs (those we know of anyway) are not so easy to produce by the average person, and this includes cannabis, at least here in the United States where government authority on such matters is strongly asserted.

The US constitution was literally printed on help paper. (Not sure how high you would get if you rolled it up now and burned it, but that's exactly how high Scalia was when he wrote the Rausch opinion.) Pot laws were primarily en acted to suppress hemp paper industries in favor of Hearst"s timber interests.
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
The US constitution was literally printed on help paper. (Not sure how high you would get if you rolled it up now and burned it, but that's exactly how high Scalia was when he wrote the Rausch opinion.) Pot laws were primarily en acted to suppress hemp paper industries in favor of Hearst"s timber interests.

This is one part of the answer, and the other part would have to do with why drug enforcement became a rabid pastime starting in the late 70's. I think it had in part to do with the desire to be able to selectively subjugate the civilian population at will (i.e. racist intent), and in part it was about fully establishing a partnership in the drug trade between the cartels and the CIA.
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Pete at Home
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One issue with pot is that it freaks out control freaks. With alcohol, how drunk you get is pretty predictable from alcohol intake to body weight. With cannibis both THC content and tolerance are highly variable. I used to hit it about once a year or two and friends were jealous at how high I could get off a puff or two. Havent smoked since 2012 but got a serious contact high 8 month ago just from smooching with a pothead. Not kidding.
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Sa'eed
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I will be honest: I want the government to legalize marijuana for entirely selfish reasons. I want the freedom to one day walk into a store and buy edible marijuana.

I find that getting high increases my artistic sensitivity. The last time I got high I listened to the last movement of Beethoven's opus 110 sonata and had a spiritual and artistic revelation.

Why should the pleasures of cannabis be denied to me?

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AI Wessex
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Try Bach's Partita #2 for violin next time, but wear a seat belt.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Sa'eed:
I will be honest: I want the government to legalize marijuana for entirely selfish reasons. I want the freedom to one day walk into a store and buy edible marijuana.

I find that getting high increases my artistic sensitivity. The last time I got high I listened to the last movement of Beethoven's opus 110 sonata and had a spiritual and artistic revelation.

Why should the pleasures of cannabis be denied to me?

I'm all for a world where you can have all the cannibis you like so long as you dont drive high. Unfortunately Americans arent capable of legalizing something like that without shoving it down everyone's throats.
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AI Wessex
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You also shouldn't do brain surgery high. I wonder about Carson...
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LetterRip
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Pete,

to the extent that cannabis substitutes for alcohol - it should result in fewer accidents and deaths even if drivers who DUI alcohol switch to DUI cannabis (alcohol tends to result in more aggressive driving; cannabis in slower driving).

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
You also shouldn't do brain surgery high. I wonder about Carson...

I wish I could vote to get Carson to go back to brain surgery. Nothing against his political or speaking skills but he revolutionized some brain surgery innovations and there isnt another Dr on the planet I would rather have look over my Thing Two's case. At best one president in sixty years does as much good as Carson did professionally.

For prez I like Carli Fiorino more than any other candidate.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by LetterRip:
Pete,

to the extent that cannabis substitutes for alcohol - it should result in fewer accidents and deaths even if drivers who DUI alcohol switch to DUI cannabis (alcohol tends to result in more aggressive driving; cannabis in slower driving).

-

Last time I cannibis drove, I was 17. I think the joint was pcp laced. I asked a passenger to take the wheel of the stick shift and then proceeded to climb on top of the car ...
Didnt smoke pot again for decades. [Smile] which was good because the stuff now is way better than it used to be. But I dont plan to engage again bc it flouts the philosophy of my alcohol recovery program. Fun stuff but I can get by without it.

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AI Wessex
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quote:
For prez I like Carli Fiorino more than any other candidate.
You post some odd stuff, but I'm glad to see your sense of humor is at least partially intact [Wink] .
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Pete at Home
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Glad to see yours is in recovery. That's an aspect of you I missed.
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AI Wessex
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Read more closely. By my own reactions to my posts I'm funny as hell.
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