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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Will Anyone Vote for Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal or Mike Huckabee... (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Will Anyone Vote for Ted Cruz, Bobby Jindal or Mike Huckabee...
Wayward Son
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...after they attended pastor Ken Swanson's National Religious Liberties Conference?

The problem is that Ken Swanson has called for the execution of all homosexuals. He has said so in the past, and even managed to include it in a speech at the end of the conference, although he was willing to give them a period to repent first.

And he was not the only speaker at this conference to have suggested this in the past. One guy even distributed some pamphlets on this.

And it's not like Ken Swanson was just one of the speakers. He actually interviewed each of the candidates himself during the conference. So they each had one-on-one face time with him.

Shouldn't this be enough to keep any voters from voting for these candidates? I mean, if this conference had been on blacks, immigrants, gun owners or Mormons, instead of homosexuals, wouldn't that be enough to cross them off anyone's list? Isn't there some line, some viewpoints, that shouldn't be overlooked by politicians, even if they need the votes?

[ November 11, 2015, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Wayward Son ]

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kmbboots
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There are certainly people who will vote for them because they attended this conference.
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D.W.
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Is there a chance that this whole election cycle is the establishment choosing to throw the election? They instead decided to goad and allow the tea party to embarrass itself out of existence in a spectacular defeat and implosion?

Is there some "moderate" waiting out there who just wasn't quite ready for prime time as it were that is being groomed to come in one or two cycles from now and "save the party"?

Or am I just being a naïve liberal thinking that it is pretty much impossible we'll have a Republican president this time around given the field?

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Fenring
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I think a couple of the Republican candidates could have a chance. As a whole the Rep field seems weird, but if you eliminate the chaff I think some of them could look Presidential and be popular. Assuming you overlook particulars of errors they may make or vagueries they seem to think count as details, I think Rubio and Christie are respectable, and then of course there's Trump who's a wildcard. If Sanders takes the nomination it will come down to policy, and if Clinton wins the nomination it will come down to personality, I think. I wouldn't write off the chance that Clinton turns people off should she take the nomination, just as Gore did, and sabotage it for the Dems. She could also prevail, of course, but I think it's too early to say that it wouldn't be close. The swing vote is very narrow so it depends on who speaks to them better.
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AI Wessex
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Rubio is IMO most likely to get the nomination, even though he's done pretty much nothing in the Senate. Second likeliest is Bush, because he's the "safe choice". Pretty much all the others stand to the right of each other right out to the edge of plausibility and drop over the horizon.
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Rafi
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Are we worked up about a candidates spiritual leadership associations now? Well, God Damn America!
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TomDavidson
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I am actually much more comfortable with a metaphorical "God Damn America" stance than I am with a "we should execute unrepentant homosexuals" stance, actually, especially when in the latter case candidates are actually seeking endorsements from the speaker in question. Are you not?
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Wayward Son
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Would you be more upset, Rafi, if they sought the endorsement of secular leadership that advocated killing all homosexuals?
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Pete at Home
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Love how the lefty media tears into Huckabee after repeatedly sxwallowing his 3008 load when his only job was to take Romney out so Obama could face McCain.
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AI Wessex
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That makes no sense.
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Pete at Home
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Did anyone else not understand what I said? Never sure what Al actually means when Al says he doesnt understand something.
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TomDavidson
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Pete meant "swallowing" and "2008," and is saying that the "lefty media" played up to Huckabee in order to bring down Romney, but now is treating Huckabee worse. He's wrong, but that's what he's saying.
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AI Wessex
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We shouldn't have to unscramble garbled posts. "Swallowing his 2008 load"? And yes, he's wrong. Saying anything isn't the same as saying something.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Would you be more upset, Rafi, if they sought the endorsement of secular leadership that advocated killing all homosexuals?

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of it. Search up the threads on Wright and Obama, wallow in it a bit. It's pretty cool to see it go full circle now.
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Greg Davidson
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I think Rubio is the rising flavor of the month, but don't rule out Rand Paul from having another climb in the polls as well.

As a matter of fact, let me make a political prediction with no real foundation or basis: the two Republican front runners after Iowa and New Hampshire will attack each other, and the Republican nomination will go to a candidate who finishes 3rd or 4th in Iowa and/or New Hampshire.

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DonaldD
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What do you think "God damn America" means, in practice, Rafi, and do you see no difference between attending that particular pastor's services, and allowing oneself to be interviewed, in a public forum, by someone calling for the execution of between 1 and, say, 5 percent of the generally law-abiding American population?
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jasonr
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quote:
I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of it. Search up the threads on Wright and Obama, wallow in it a bit. It's pretty cool to see it go full circle now.
I suppose in some circles, metaphorically asking God to "damn" America is equivalent to demanding that your fellow citizens be put to death. I know I'm pretty clear on the distinction. Damn my hypocrisy.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
What do you think "God damn America" means, in practice, Rafi, and do you see no difference between attending that particular pastor's services, and allowing oneself to be interviewed, in a public forum, by someone calling for the execution of between 1 and, say, 5 percent of the generally law-abiding American population?

So Obama spends a a couple of decades with a spiritual advisor that throws his particular brand of hatred out in YouTube and the beliefs there are completely unassociated with Obama, A republican is at some guys event once and is asked a few questions (in public, public) and it's proof they want to kill people.

Are you guys even reading what you post now vs then? [LOL]

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AI Wessex
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Rafi, how about Cruz? He grew up in the very household and the shadow of a preacher who has said his son has been anointed to be President. He's also said that Obama should be sent back to Kenya or Indonesia, the government plans to take all your money and Obama is ok with murder.

But wait, that's not all. He also says that gay marriage is a government conspiracy and the media is evil and trying to destroy America.

How do you think Rafael Cruz stacks up against Jeremiah Wright for evil ideas? Actually, I think his father explains Ted Cruz a lot better than Wright explains Obama.

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Rafi
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I'll pull one quote, I change only three words...guess which.

Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I've got to admit that it's really unfortunate to see the liberal media fall over itself in a desperate attempt to drag sexuality, kicking and screaming, into the election. I had thought that, maybe just once, they were going to behave semi-honorably; it turns out that they were just looking for an opening easily distorted enough to sell to the SJW's

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Rafi
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Wait. I figured all those links, might be a little something to this. Perhaps I should check it out to see if it's nothing more than simple hypocrisy or if there really is more. All the links go to the same site, Right Wing Watch:

quote:
To our readers: Right Wing Watch, a project for People For the American Way, is run by a dedicated staff driven to shed light on the activities of right-wing political organizations. As a non-profit working hard every day to expose the Far-Right's extreme and intolerant agenda, our main source of support is donations from readers like you.

[LOL] so much for taking this seriously
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Pete at Home
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I thought Cruz was kind of nutty but Mr Wessex makes him sound reasonable by comparison.

"[Cruz] also says that gay marriage is a government conspiracy"

Do you know what "conspiracy" means, Al? do you question that multiple persons in the govdernment cooperated behind closed doors to make ssm happen? Every SCOTUS and other high court decision involves, by definition, conspiracy. You are an educated man. Please try harder to sound more educated than Cruz and Rubio.

" the media is evil and trying to destroy America"

That any entity is evil is subjective.

What makes america america is also subject to opinion. There isnt even a majority of americans that is wholly agreed on what constitutes "the American Way." The only reason's Cruz statement is ludicrous is his assumption that "the media" can be described as a single entity with a single political goal. But your description fails to adress that point, otherwise you would have put "the media" in chortle quotes.

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Pete at Home
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" Obama is ok with murder"

Most everyone is OK with some sort of killing of a human being that a significant other group considers to be murder. Obama's killing of Osama Bin Laden was murder by the laws of Pakistan where it occurred , and Obama was ok with that. I am ok with it too. When you hold out subjectively true statements as proof positive that Cruz is nuts, you paint yourself as extreme as Cruz.

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Pete at Home
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" I think his father explains Ted Cruz a lot better than Wright explains Obama"

Doesnt matter, ans your psyops on Cruz' family offends the conscience. Obama opened the door for attacks on his pastor when he published a book focused on his pastor as his guru. Barry held Jerry out to the world as an inspiration. If Cruz does the same with his father, lefties will not come off as a pack of child molesting creeps for going after Cruz senior as they did with Mel Gibson's.

[ November 12, 2015, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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AI Wessex
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Pete, nice whitewash of crazy talk. I see you're back to calling Obama by his baby name. Mel Gibson? Uh, huh.
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AI Wessex
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A not unreasonable assessment of the GOP field.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
I am actually much more comfortable with a metaphorical "God Damn America" stance than I am with a "we should execute unrepentant homosexuals" stance, actually, especially when in the latter case candidates are actually seeking endorsements from the speaker in question. Are you not? [italics added by Pete]

Yes. See, Al, there's an analogy that one can make and not come off smelling like the back end of aan abortion clinic.
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TomDavidson
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Again, let's be clear: calling for the execution of homosexuals is considerably worse than saying that God should hold America to account for its sins, no?

Is there anyone on this board who disagrees with this?

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Pete at Home
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Sorry Tom. I completely agree with you and will be shocked if anyone on this forum disagrees with you. You are absolutely correct in what you said, and, as usual, dead wrong in your assessment of your fellow Ornerians.

We are not the monsters you paint us to be.

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Pete at Home
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What I meant to Al that it's OK, even laudable for you to hold Cruz accountable for seeking the endorsement of a pastor that preaches murder, assuming that's what he's done. But something of a crime against humanity to bash folks for the sins of their father, unless they explicitly held their father up as an insiration.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
We are not the monsters you paint us to be.
*grin* You're about a step behind me on this one.
I don't think you're monsters. But I'm willing to put $5 down that G# won't admit it out loud. [Smile]

I'm not speaking to your point at all, because what you do with Al is something that I generally ignore completely. It's almost always content-free.

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AI Wessex
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Tom, I don't always agree with you, either, but we both are Pete's pushback list [Wink] . And in general I appreciate the help of anyone who can speak pete.
quote:
What I meant to Al that it's OK, even laudable for you to hold Cruz accountable for seeking the endorsement of a pastor that preaches murder, assuming that's what he's done.
That, btw, includes his own father.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
We are not the monsters you paint us to be.
*grin* You're about a step behind me on this one.
I don't think you're monsters. .

I did not accuse you of believing what you say.

Did you honestly imagine anyone here would think that "god damn america" was worse than calling for the murder of our gay neighbors and family members?
I hate rhetorical questions but don't know how else to frame the point that you dont believe us to be monsters, but PAINT us so.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
" I think his father explains Ted Cruz a lot better than Wright explains Obama"

Doesnt matter, ans your psyops on Cruz' family offends the conscience. Obama opened the door for attacks on his pastor when he published a book focused on his pastor as his guru. Barry held Jerry out to the world as an inspiration. If Cruz does the same with his father, lefties will not come off as a pack of child molesting creeps for going after Cruz senior as they did with Mel Gibson's.

Did you actually read the book? I have and remember it very differently.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
[snip appeal to solidarity in self pity and oppression].
quote:
What I meant to Al that it's OK, even laudable for you to hold Cruz accountable for seeking the endorsement of a pastor that preaches murder, assuming that's what he's done.
That, btw, includes his own father.
Tom's hands are clean here because he focused on the endorsement. Yours are not because you focused solely on the father relation.

As for the paranoia about your being on my "list" (like I am some aort of one man conspiracy against Al and Tom), I dont think there is a month that we have shared the forum that I did not raise a particular argument that you had made. I respond to personal jabs and make a few of my own when I am angry or overly amused, but on the whole I respond to the substance and style of what you have said.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Did you honestly imagine anyone here would think that "god damn america" was worse than calling for the murder of our gay neighbors and family members?
I do not honestly imagine that G# will answer the question. But I wanted to ask it.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
" I think his father explains Ted Cruz a lot better than Wright explains Obama"

Doesnt matter, ans your psyops on Cruz' family offends the conscience. Obama opened the door for attacks on his pastor when he published a book focused on his pastor as his guru. Barry held Jerry out to the world as an inspiration. If Cruz does the same with his father, lefties will not come off as a pack of child molesting creeps for going after Cruz senior as they did with Mel Gibson's.

Did you actually read the book? I have and remember it very differently.
I read the quotes which some of Barry's supporters here posted. I find Wright admirable on a number of points, and can appreciate why Obama would find him inspiring.

By my count, I owe you one, Kate. If that's how you want to use your credit, say the word and I'll run to the library, read any book you recommend cover to cover, and write up to a page of cogent analysis in response to the question (s) of your choosing.

[ November 12, 2015, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
Did you honestly imagine anyone here would think that "god damn america" was worse than calling for the murder of our gay neighbors and family members?
I do not honestly imagine that G# will answer the question. But I wanted to ask it.
I would be grateful if you would adress G specifically with such questions, rather that implying, as Al has multiple times this week, that G myself and others share some sort of agenda.
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AI Wessex
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quote:
I dont think there is a month that we have shared the forum that I did not raise a particular argument that you had made.
"raise" or "praise"? [Smile]
quote:
I would be grateful if you would adress G specifically with such questions, rather that implying, as Al has multiple times this week, that G myself and others share some sort of agenda.
Don't wait for Rafi G to respond to one of my posts. I've riddled his arguments so thoroughly so often for so long that he's afraid to say anything at all to me. OTOH, if others would want to try to respond to my questions posed to him, the effort won't have been entirely wasted.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
quote:
I dont think there is a month that we have shared the forum that I did not raise a particular argument that you had made.
"raise" or "praise"? :.
Praise. Good catch, Al, and thank you for setting me up to illustrate that I do appreciate it when you say something that sheds light on a discussion. [Razz]


quote:
Don't wait for Rafi G to respond to one of my posts. I've riddled his arguments so thoroughly so often for so long that he's afraid to say anything at all to me. OTOH, if others would want to try to respond to my questions posed to him, the effort won't have been entirely wasted
On another thread I said something to defend Fenring and you responded as if I were defending Rafi. To be fair perhaps you were not trying to insult me, but it's hard for me to see that. I cant explain myself more than that without flouting Ornery rules.
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