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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » 26 US Republican Governors (and 1 Democratic Gov) give ISIS exactly what they want (Page 5)

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Author Topic: 26 US Republican Governors (and 1 Democratic Gov) give ISIS exactly what they want
kmbboots
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I do try to give you the facts, Pete.
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AI Wessex
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quote:
Do members of this board support or oppose admission of more refugees into Europe? If yes, do you admit that the security risk in that process must be substantial, or do you dismiss that risk as well?
Each country should judge for itself how many refugees to accept and how to integrate them into their societies and economies. The US has admitted about 750,000 since 9/11 with very few crimes related to the fact that they came in as refugees. With all the fear-mongering about closing our borders and expelling those here illegally because they might be infiltrating the country to cause mayhem, I think we've done a remarkably good job of vetting those who came to us on humanitarian grounds.
quote:
My thesis here is that genuine threats are being dismissed or obsfuscated to avoid any conclusion that lessens or eliminates aid to refugees. It is not that the risks are necessarily huge or unsupportable - but they are being hand waved away in order to shut down any debate that leads to any conclusion but the one refugee proponents desire.
My thesis is that people with your thesis are reacting emotionally and have no real empirical basis for your heightened concern. I'll note again that this wave of new anxiety could have been raised at any point in the last few years, but wasn't. It reminds me of the difference in how Halloween trick or treating was done before and after the hoax in the early 70's claiming that a pin had been found in an apple in a child's bag somewhere in the US.
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Pete at Home
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My own view is that we take the Yazidis, Jewish, Christian, and Kurdish refugees, suggest Iran take the Shiites, and tell Saudi Arabia that if they don't take the wahabbists that the West will shut down all the Saudi funded mosques. Dunno if we could actually do that in the US, but the threat would shame the Sauds
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
I do try to give you the facts, Pete.

Noted.

That makes one of you. Master Wessex, Davidson and Davidson Otho proceeds with hostile psychoanalysis

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Pete at Home
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BTW if anyone hasn't read Kate's link it is very informative.
I was not aware just how rigorous our screening processes are, but it's consistent with my experience My first client out of law school was a Lebanese refugee, a Lebanese Christian who was tortured by Hezbollah while waiting for his application to process.

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AI Wessex
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So, Pete, should I understand what you wrote? FWIW, it's Alfred, King of Wessex, not merely Master. My avatar will not tolerate such disrespect (though I will).
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Really, Germany has thus far been "unwilling to take enough in to allow them to be vetted?" Interesting. Here's what Germany had to say about this as recently as September:

Europe. Not germany. And the rest of the world as a whole as well. Germany is just one player, and not enough to absorb the entire tide on its own, so the overflow pushes its way in out of desperation.
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Pete at Home
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Kate's Article is the first I have seen to address what I said earlier, I.e that state governors are constitutionally barred from determining what classes of person may enter the state.

The fact that Barry's arguments evade that most obvious issue suggests to me that he has no more interest than Al, Tom or Greg in actually resettling anyone and is merely using this issue as a posturing springboard to make himself look morally superior to his rivals.

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TomDavidson
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Pete, stop being a stupid dick, please.

Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pete at Home
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What I meant King Al, was that Kate argues with persuasive facts while others say things like "My thesis is that people with your thesis are reacting emotionally" which accomplish nothing other than confirming the speaker's smugness. Glad you have kept your sense of humor, though.

Kate's Guardian article shoes that the US restriction in place and applicable her fAR more restrictive than the as hock emergency screening that I was proposing for this particular humanitarian crisis.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Pete, stop being a stupid dick, please.

14 years on this forum and you still don't grok that "stupid",had never been one of my hot buttons?

I thought I was being a rather clever dick, staying within the lines of the squares Didn't say anything about your intent or motives, just that Obama doesn't care more than you do.
[Smile]

Exactly what did I say that you deny? Do you assert that Barry certainly does care more than you?

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TomDavidson
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I'm not trying to push your buttons. I am noting that you are being a stupid dick and asking you to stop.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pete at Home
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I have no idea what you think being a "stupid dick" means, and I was never a master of middle school lingo, so to me your "stupid duck" phrase looks like more of your thar empty bullying and posturing language like "bigot", those words you throw around except during those rare moments you boot up your frontal lobe.

FYI, that gasp people make when they have a cool idea with complex implications? That's because to run the frontal lobe at mid to high capacity requires more oxygen. So take a deep breath, Tom. Think harder, and let your higher brain join the conversation. Surprise and delight us like you did around page nine of the Mizou thread.

[ November 20, 2015, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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D.W.
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quote:
FYI, that gasp people make when they have a cool idea with complex implications? That's because to run the frontal lobe at mid to high capacity requires more oxygen.
I don't know... Calling you a stupid dick lead to me learning the most interesting piece of trivia of the day. [Smile]
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TomDavidson
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Pete, there is very little I find more tiresome than someone loudly and smugly asserting that he's more clever than he actually is. So, hey, just stop being a stupid dick, please.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pete at Home
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On the contrary, my dear Tom, I loudly and sadly assert tat I am not as clever as I sound on this forum. I wish you and a few others would stop playing stupid and making me look like the resident genius in comparison. If you are afraid of de oxygen a ting the biosphere if you ran your great brain at higher capacity, just go plant a few trees.
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TomDavidson
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*sigh* Pete, that's exactly the sort of thing I mean. You think you're being clever, there, but it's just tiresome.

What I want is for you to stop being a stupid dick. Please try that.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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scifibum
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Tom, that's not going to work.

Pete, I think it would improve the forum if you would never use the "unlike [list of members] this is not terrible in my opinion" pattern. It IS terribleness, and is not likely to lead to less of whatever you consider terrible.

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Pete at Home
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I wish you were right, SF, but on this thread it *has* reduced the behaviors that I consider terrible. And the mod asked me not to use the tactic that actually does, on occasion, induce Tom to boot up his higher brain function.

Just trying to improve conversation resources with the allowable tools at my disposal. Better to have Tom spend his time spewing 5th grade invective than spitting out the left-hand memes that have been tried and tested to suppress thought and discussion at major universities.

quote:
Originally posted by D.W.:
quote:
FYI, that gasp people make when they have a cool idea with complex implications? That's because to run the frontal lobe at mid to high capacity requires more oxygen.
I don't know... Calling you a stupid dick lead to me learning the most interesting piece of trivia of the day. [Smile]
Cool, ain't it? a friend was reading me some stuff about the frontal lobe, and when she got to the sliding oxygen capacity thing, I gasped, shared my thought about gasping. And she gasped. So share around, see who gasps.

[ November 20, 2015, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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TomDavidson
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Pete, please stop being a stupid dick.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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AI Wessex
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quote:
Kate's Guardian article shoes that the US restriction in place and applicable her fAR more restrictive than the as hock emergency screening that I was proposing for this particular humanitarian crisis.
I d'not konw why oreths do'nt fnid yuor grbaeld ptsos as irrntiaitg as I do. I wlil gvie you a pataril psas on taht, tuoghh, snice mnay of the tighns you wtire taht I *am* albe to dcpeehir are uiepalnagnlpy jviluene. In ohetr wdros, i'ts hrad to tkae you serlousiy as you wsih to be taekn.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Kate's Guardian article SHOWS that the US restriction in place and applicable her far more restrictive than the AD hock emergency screening that I was proposing for this particular humanitarian crisis.
Fixed those two typos. Better now?

Just be aware that when you single one person out for nitpicking of faults that you ignore in others, it comes off badly. Though not thuggishly so, as repeatedly calling another a "stupid dick" because you think that he thinks that he's smarter than you.

[ November 20, 2015, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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AI Wessex
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One problem at a time [Wink] . I think dealing with this may help alleviate others...
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Pete at Home
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Just so it's clear that my last post did not impute something to Tom that he hadn't already said himself:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Pete, there is very little I find more tiresome than someone loudly and smugly asserting that he's more clever than he actually is.

and that's our 14 year quarrel in a nutshell. A clash of philosophy and personality that ultimately has little to do with politics. I annoy Tom because he thinks I think I am smarter than him, and Tom annoys me because I think he pretends to be dumber than he is. He wants me to shut my mouth and I want him to open his mind. He wants to shut off my oxygen and I want him to turn his own oxygen up.

[ November 20, 2015, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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AI Wessex
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Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. I think you and I both could benefit from that advice sometimes.
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Pete at Home
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Sure. Otoh, bullies are more fun to tilt at than windmill. Especially when they actually use the vocabulary of high school bugbears
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kmbboots
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The Cato Institute is about as far from the liberal media you can get but even they agree:

I recommend reading the whole thing but here is their conclusion:

quote:
The security threat posed by refugees in the United States is insignificant. Halting America’s processing of refugees due to a terrorist attack in another country that may have had one asylum-seeker as a co-plotter would be an extremely expensive overreaction to very minor threat. Resettling refugees who pass a thorough security check would likely decrease the recruiting pool for future terrorists and decrease the long-run risk.

The current refugee vetting system is multilayered, dynamic, and extremely effective. ISIS fighters or terrorists who are intent on attacking U.S. soil have myriad other options for doing so that are all cheaper, easier, and more likely to succeed than sneaking in through the heavily guarded refugee gate. The low level of current risk does not justify the government slamming that gate shut.

Syrian Refugees Don’t Pose a Serious Security Threat
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Pete at Home
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Thanks Kate. Good preface on the Cato institute. Plan to pass that around.

The cure for ignorance is knowledge. Cure to fear is love and safety.

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kmbboots
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Often the cure to fear is the same as the cure for ignorance. But, dear Lord, is it hard work to get fearful people to listen to facts.

[ November 20, 2015, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Often the cure to fear is the same as the cure for ignorance. But, dear Lord, is it hard work to get fearful people to listen to facts.

How many of them will you sponsor and offer a room in your home?
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Pete at Home
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Well am already at work forwarding your links to my readership

[ November 20, 2015, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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Pete at Home
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Including some students who will vote for the first time in 2016
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Often the cure to fear is the same as the cure for ignorance. But, dear Lord, is it hard work to get fearful people to listen to facts.

How many of them will you sponsor and offer a room in your home?
Remarks like this, addressed to the ononly pro immigrant Iberian who has argued through reasoning rather than be shaming and personal attacks, make me wonder. Setting aside by doubts about your identity and persona, your remarks here operate in tandem with the far left accusations, to suppress reasonable discussion of the facts. Wittingly or not, you personify the straw man argument that Tom ET al impute to all who question them

[ November 20, 2015, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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scifibum
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Often the cure to fear is the same as the cure for ignorance. But, dear Lord, is it hard work to get fearful people to listen to facts.

How many of them will you sponsor and offer a room in your home?
How many fallacies can you identify in this bit of rhetoric?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Often the cure to fear is the same as the cure for ignorance. But, dear Lord, is it hard work to get fearful people to listen to facts.

How many of them will you sponsor and offer a room in your home?
How many fallacies can you identify in this bit of rhetoric?
That question deserves its own thread.

it's like an inverted ad misericordiam getting shagged by an ad homeniem on a blanket of false premises. I think Goebbels just ejaculated in his grave.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I annoy Tom because he thinks I think I am smarter than him...
No. You annoy me because:

1) You continually put words in my mouth despite almost never actually understanding my argument or positions;
2) You are oddly obsessed with me;
3) You are oddly venal and crude and excessively familiar;
4) You try desperately to engage in "humor" that is almost never funny and "allegories" that are almost never functional, and don't realize how bad you are at both. Your sense of humor is terrible even where it isn't grossly inappropriate;
5) You honestly think you know me -- and, God help us, pretty much anyone -- well enough to "press buttons," and yet the "buttons" you use are so far off the mark that your attempts (both aimed at me and at others) make me sad and annoyed and a little bored. Especially when you just keep repeating them in hopes that eventually someone will respond. Were you Rafi, I'd expect that this was itself an attempt at a clever troll, designed to irritate just by its obviousness. But...
6) You veer wildly from affable confusion to bizarre, drooling, sex-offender hostility to smirking troll. You persist in pretending to be pleasantly surprised every time someone you completely fail to understand shares a position with you, or manages to provide exactly the little dribble of easily-available information that you require to believe the precise thing that several other people have been telling you for days, and which -- even once conceded -- never seems to blunt your habit for broad, offensive generalizations about largely mythical groups;
7) And, finally, because these arguments ALWAYS go the same way, you ALWAYS feel like you've had some kind of breakthrough, and you ALWAYS wind up doing this every three or four months for reasons I don't understand. You go crazy like clockwork.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pete at Home
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sounds like a lot of very personal and intimate projection, Tom. Pretty obsessive sounding stuff. Not the first time you have gone on such a rant when your other attacks failed to piss me off.

Next? [Big Grin]

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Pete at Home
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Here's the complete context of what Tom was responding to in case anyone is curious what set off his last breakdown:
quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
Just so it's clear that my last post did not impute something to Tom that he hadn't already said himself:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
Pete, there is very little I find more tiresome than someone loudly and smugly asserting that he's more clever than he actually is.

and that's our 14 year quarrel in a nutshell. A clash of philosophy and personality that ultimately has little to do with politics. I annoy Tom because he thinks I think I am smarter than him, and Tom annoys me because I think he pretends to be dumber than he is. He wants me to shut my mouth and I want him to open his mind. He wants to shut off my oxygen and I want him to turn his own oxygen up.

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TomDavidson
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No, that's not actually what "set me off."
Let's see if you can identify the post that actually irritated me. I'm genuinely curious.

Either way, I'd appreciate it if you made an effort to not be a stupid dick.


Tom: Please see your email. -OrneryMod

[ November 22, 2015, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: OrneryMod ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:

Let's see if you can identify the post that actually irritated me. I'm genuinely curious

I find it difficult to believe that you are genuinely Curious about anything, let alone about me. I don't recall you ever asking a question you didn't claim to not have the answer to.

whatever post set you off pre dates my Pete at Home account and predated any effective Ornery archiving. You have made this sort of attack on me since my first week on Ornery. I have no idea what it was. I had Red in a tizzy too, so it must have been something bad.

Whatever it was back then, I apologize.

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