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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » 26 US Republican Governors (and 1 Democratic Gov) give ISIS exactly what they want (Page 7)

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Author Topic: 26 US Republican Governors (and 1 Democratic Gov) give ISIS exactly what they want
cherrypoptart
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And if by thorough you mean they will be interviewed more often over a longer period of time just to make sure they and their families have their stories straight, that's not going to prevent a terrorist with no record and a good memory from slipping through. Why with everything we've seen people still choose to underestimate our enemy with wishful pie in the sky thinking is beyond me.
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AI Wessex
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Cherry, Syed was born and raised in the US. There were no signs of radicalization on his part. The only potential outlier that has been reported was amassing a fairly impressive stockpile of weapons, including assault rifles and thousands of rounds of ammo. Why would anyone who lives in a condo, but never goes hunting or to a shooting range do that?

Isn't that kind of activity something we should keep an eye on?

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg Davidson:
Rafi, your assertion is that "counterterror screening is failing" - for that to be a valid statement requires that the screening for a fiance is identical to other forms of counterterror screening (as in that for a refugee).

Not my job to substantiate your assertions, just my perogative to point out that you haven't done so.

Apparently it's not your job to substantiate your assertions either. You just kind of make it up and go along and expect others to believe it. If you think it's wrong, prove it. Don't expect anyone to believe it just because you say it.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by cherrypoptart:
The screening for the fiance was able to use records from an intact government that was not in the middle of a civil war. It found nothing because there was nothing to find, and not in the same way there will be nothing to find in Syria. She was a good girl so there were no criminal records on her and no ties to radicals. She must have been at least well to do since her family had a maid.

How can the screening of Syrian refugees be more thorough when they are few if any records to check against?

Why don't you back up your assertion that refugee screening will be more thorough?

People can be radicals intent on causing harm without there being any record of it anywhere and no where or way for law enforcement to make the connection. This is because radicalization occurs in the mind and unless you can read their mind you will have no idea. And even more difficult, actually impossible, is to screen anyone for what is going to be in their mind once they get here.

If it sounds like I'm saying it's impossible to screen them to prevent this type of attack from happening again, that's exactly what I'm saying.

And everyone acknowledges this. No one disagrees. The only disagreement is that some people say it's worth bringing them here even though we can be sure some may engage in this type of terrorist attack and others say it's not worth it.

Quoted for truth. Greg, you're up dude. [Wink]
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Pete at Home
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"Maybe the problem we should solve is violence"

Right, because that's only one problem. And disarming has worked so well for Sabra and Shatilla, for Bosnia, for Chicago ... where has disarming law abiders resulted in a drop in victims of violence?

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AI Wessex
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Do nothing.
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Pete at Home
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Better nothing than something counterproductive. But better yet take measures that reduce the culture of violence. Attack the roots of violence. Increase prosperity. Shrink the geography of desperation and isolation.
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AI Wessex
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Lofty goals. How should we do it?
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Greg Davidson
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I think the female shooter got her visa in less than a month. Here's what it's like for refugees - an 18-24 month process:

quote:
All refugees taken in by the U.S. undergo extensive background checks. The small number from Syria are subject to additional layers of security screening.

“Of all the categories of persons entering the U.S., these refugees are the single most heavily screened and vetted,” explains Jana Mason, a senior adviser to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.

Here are answers to some of your questions about how the program works.

How are Syrian refugees referred to the U.S.?

The process begins with a referral from UNHCR. The U.N.’s refugee agency is responsible for registering some 15 million asylum seekers around the world, and providing aid and assistance until they are resettled abroad or (more likely) returned home once conditions ease. The registration process includes in-depth refugee interviews, home country reference checks and biological screening such as iris scans. Military combatants are weeded out.

Among those who pass background checks, a small percentage are referred for overseas resettlement based on criteria designed to determine the most vulnerable cases. This group may include survivors of torture, victims of sexual violence, targets of political persecution, the medically needy, families with multiple children and a female head of household.

What happens once a refugee is referred to the U.S.?

Our government performs its own intensive screening, a process that includes consultation from nine different government agencies. They meet weekly to review a refugee’s case file and, if appropriate, determine where in the U.S. the individual should be placed. When choosing where to place a refugee, officials consider factors such as existing family in the U.S., employment possibilities and special factors like access to needed medical treatment.

How do we know the refugees aren’t terrorists?

Every refugee goes through an intensive vetting process, but the precautions are increased for Syrians. Multiple law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies perform “the most rigorous screening of any traveler to the U.S.,” says a senior administration official. Among the agencies involved are the State Department, the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center, the Department of Defense and the Department of Homeland Security. A DHS officer conducts in-person interviews with every applicant. Biometric information such as fingerprints are collected and matched against criminal databases. Biographical information such as past visa applications are scrutinized to ensure the applicant’s story coheres.

What percentage of applicants “pass” the screening process?

Just over 50%.

How long does the whole process take?

Eighteen to 24 months on average.

link
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Rafi
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Time Magazine, that's impartial.

Ok, 18-24 months. How consistent is that? I'm sure some take that timeframe. I'm sure some don't. But, given your hysteria over how desperate it is to bring Muslims to America, are you going to stand by that 2 year window? Under this story, refugees fleeing today will not get here until Christmas 2017.

Let's see:
quote:
Once the US State Department receives their case files it employs NGO contractors to pre-screen them for eligibility for refugee status, then they are subjected to health and security checks.

Officers from the Department of Homeland Security fly from Washington to the camps and conduct interviews with candidates, seeking to weed out what a US official called "liars, criminals and

Yep. DHS. And contractors. The DHS that missed Malik's obviously fake address and contractors that have little to no accountability. Hey, sounds great, let's get a million of them.
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Rafi
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Lets take a peek at what the left is proposing we let in: British police ignore the abuse of 1,400 children.
quote:
The people of Rotherham know that it is unsafe for a girl to take a taxi-ride from someone with Asian features; they know that Pakistani Muslims often do not treat white girls with the respect that they treat girls from their own community. They know, and have known over fifteen years, that there are gangs of predators on the look-out for vulnerable girls, and that the gangs are for the most part Asian young men who see English society not as the community to which they belong, but as a sexual hunting ground. But they dare not express this knowledge, in either words or deed.
With that, it should come as no surprise that 95% of all child rape and molestation convictions were committed by Muslims.

Hey, what vetting process are they using in the UK? Doesn't sound much better than ours.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
Lofty goals. How should we do it?

Cheap public transport.

Public works programs where the young get Roosevelt style jobs for upgrading roads and the infrastructure.

Promote a unifying pluralist culture.

Pay anyone in the country to get sterilized reversible, no questions asked.

Legalize pot and save prisons for those who really endanger society.

Give immigration priority to relatives of the most productive law abiding residents. Highest productive would be someone who starts legal businesses that have nothing to do with the sex trade and put American citizens into jobs with medical insurance.

Other programs that increase public participation and decrease isolation and alienation. If you put your mind to it I am sure you could come up with some.

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Pete at Home
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Add: Mental health counseling and medication! I suspect that a substantial number of our mass shootings would have been avoided if certain people have been on the right medications.
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Rafi
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I think, at this point, a renewed focus on mental health is a necessity. Some of the mass shootings we have seen over the last few years are the result of disturbed individuals and their acts may have been prevented with appropriate and timely treatment(or maybe not). I think it's worth the investment.

As important, we need to realize the problem and name it. Muslims have a problem. No, not all of course but enough. They have a culture and religion that tolerate if not outright promotes horrific abuses of the innocent. This is undeniable. The first step is accepting that reality so that we can deal with it. Simply denying it and allowing it into our society is not going to help.

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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
I think, at this point, a renewed focus on mental health is a necessity. Some of the mass shootings we have seen over the last few years are the result of disturbed individuals and their acts may have been prevented with appropriate and timely treatment(or maybe not). I think it's worth the investment.

The American landscape is currently set up almost expressly to promote bad mental health and anxiety. Between consumerist advertising culture, partisan dislike of half of one's countrymen, exploiting the middle class and poor to benefit the wealthy elite, and treating health care like a luxury, it's no surprise that the U.S. is riddled with crazed individuals. I'll throw in there a distinctly anti-individualist narcissism mentality that has been allowed to pass itself off for the last 30 years as the next step in individualism. "Each person, you and me and everyone else too, matters" has been replaced with "I matter and everyone better recognize that." The latter is not actually individualism but is rather the seed whose growth results in the diminishing of the individual.
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Pete at Home
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I agree particularly re advertising. It(s universal that inequity creates a motive for crime. I think some advertising increases the sense of inequity, and hence the crime rate
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Pete at Home
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My experience living in Vegas, a city more ripe with mental illness than any other I have seen, bears up in my mind the connection between conspicuous consumption and mental illness.
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