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Author Topic: urgent: how can i protect a 20 yr old tree from a drunken idiot w a chainsaw
Pete at Home
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Police won't come and code enforcement says they won't make any preemptive warning, but will only cite the drunken moron after he cuts down the beautiful old tree. Was thinking of crisscross chains and padlocks, or wires and steel rods around the tree.

Tried to google protecting trees for chainsaws and only found items re protecting chainsaw operators. I am on the other side. Save the trees.

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D.W.
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If you were going to do one of those, chains seems safer. Wires seems like a good way to injure the operator (who's already drunk...) Wouldn't wan't you to end up on the wrong side of the law for injuring a drunken tree killer. [Razz]
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Pete at Home
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He's trespassing on the tree owner's property. I suppose we could put up a sign saying chainsawing the tree would be hazardous to morons.
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Pete at Home
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I tried to google the interaction of barbed wire w a chainsaw and found this:
http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2006/12/how-to-play-music-with-barbed-wire-and_30.html?m=1

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yossarian22c
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If you have barbed wire, a fence to keep the drunken man away from the tree may be the safest option.

To protect the tree directly you could check the bike lock section of Walmart, those things are made to be difficult to cut but may not be big enough for a big old tree. Any chains or things put up around the tree better be very visible though because if drunken idiot uses the chainsaw on the tree anyway and snaps the chain that is a very dangerous situation. You're a lawyer so I'm sure you know that said drunken idiot even if he was trespassing could give you trouble if he claimed the tree was booby trapped. So maybe very visible chains with signs up and pictures taken before hand just to be safe.

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Pete at Home
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Yep! visible chains, wires, big signs warning of dangers to stoopid momma jumpers that apply chainsaws to chains and wires.
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Rafi
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Just put up no trespassing signs. When you see the guy, call police and tell them you have a person trespassing and you're going to shoot him. They will arrive quickly. If you really can/do shoot him then tell everyone you're a Muslim. You'll be a *hero*, probably get invited to the White House. A Muslim defending Gaia, the left/MSM may make you a media darling.
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velcro
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As someone who is a member of this community, and hopes that it can live up to its potential for honest, respectful communication, I have to object.

This comment is bigoted, and reflects a severe distortion of reality.

You have every right to say what you said. I have every right to condemn the sentiments expressed.

I hope everyone who reads a disgusting comment like this joins in the condemnation.

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AI Wessex
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Rafi G can be tolerated in small doses, say on the order of about one absurd and/or disgusting comment a day. I think he may be going over that limit lately. But since you only get in trouble on Ornery for attacking people who make hateful comments, and not for making them, he is free to belch and fart as he wishes.
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Wayward Son
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Perhaps as an attorney, Pete, you should send him a letter reminding him that destruction of someone else's tree can result in a judgment of up to 3 times the value of the tree (if that particular law applies in your area, and IIR(it)C). And perhaps include an estimate of the replacement cost of the 20 year old tree.

Hopefully, he will read it when sober and remember it the next time he is drunk. [Smile]

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Pete at Home
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I thought the last line was rather funny. Raf, if you took out the gratuitously hateful shooting part, it would have been funnier.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by Wayward Son:
Perhaps as an attorney, Pete, you should send him a letter reminding him that destruction of someone else's tree can result in a judgment of up to 3 times the value of the tree (if that particular law applies in your area, and IIR(it)C). And perhaps include an estimate of the replacement cost of the 20 year old tree.

Hopefully, he will read it when sober and remember it the next time he is drunk. [Smile]

Am not an attorney in Georgia and am inactive status in Nevada where I never expect to return, inshallah
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Wayward Son
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How inconvenient. [Frown] Perhaps you know of an attorney who would draft such a letter gratis? (I would guess your financial situation does not allow you to spend much money on this.)
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Pete at Home
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Hmm. Metal screws into tree at 45 degrees downward would not harm tree, right?
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Pete at Home
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It is Curious that Rafi takes a belligerent trespassing vandal's side over an owner's property rights. [Smile]
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The Drake
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So much curiosity. Is the person with the chainsaw generally anti-tree? Is there something specific about this tree - perhaps mediation could help bridge his differences with the tree. Is it blocking his DirectTV? Perhaps you could negotiate some cable service alternative. Does he often brandish a chainsaw, and if so, does it only happen when he is drinking?

Where is the tree owner in all this? I'm assuming it is not your tree, Pete, based on your statement in the third person.

Could you carve the tree with a religious symbol or adorn it with a rainbow flag and make it a hate crime to cut it down? Of course you'd have to trespass yourself to do any of these remedies.

Can the tree file for a restraining order?

Put an endangered animal in the tree, and it will be a hella big fine for chopping it down.

Relocate the tree to a state with fewer rednecks and fewer chainsaws.

These unhelpful suggestions are brought to you by The Drake.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by velcro:
As someone who is a member of this community, and hopes that it can live up to its potential for honest, respectful communication, I have to object.

This comment is bigoted, and reflects a severe distortion of reality.

You have every right to say what you said. I have every right to condemn the sentiments expressed.

I hope everyone who reads a disgusting comment like this joins in the condemnation.

I'm not sure what you find bigoted about it but in the age of micro-aggressions I guess it could have violated your "safe space". I suggest you avoid South Park.
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velcro
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Just curious, Al, Wayward, Drake, lurkers, if you heard this noxiousness in the real world, you would just nod and smile?
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by velcro:
Just curious, Al, Wayward, Drake, lurkers, if you heard this noxiousness in the real world, you would just nod and smile?

Sometimes people accuse Rafi of trolling when I kind of think he's not, but here I'm pretty sure he was trolling the leftists on the forum. As such you can distill the content of his message here to "leftist views can be stupid, and I'll make fun of them a bit". I think it's wrongheaded to take the literal message here seriously.

For my sensibility when someone trolls in dark humor I might roll my eyes if I don't find it funny but I know the difference between trolling or taking the piss and stating an ugly opinion. I more or less rolled my eyes at Rafi's joke here but I don't see much value or purpose in taking its content seriously at face value. I might call it immature, but not noxious.

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cherrypoptart
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It's funny because it's true.

And that's also precisely why it's simultaneously so offensive to so many.

Just look at darling bomb clock boy suing the school district for 15 million smackers. That's got to be great for the education of the rest of the students to lose all that money. But he'll still stay Obama's darling. Maybe the feds will even help with the prosecution.

Sorry to get off topic. So back to the issue at hand I'm afraid I don't have any ideas at all. I'm against the idea of putting metal in the tree to hurt the guy. I also would like more information. Why does he want to cut it down? Will he be able to sell the wood? Did the tree tell him it would make a fine plank in the long ship he is building? This all seems very odd.

It reminds me of the butterfly girl who lived in a tree for two years to keep loggers from chopping down Luna. I'm not sure if maybe there is someone looking for a tree to live in for a while and in exchange maybe you and the community could bring them stuff and recharge their phone and other devices for them.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by velcro:
Just curious, Al, Wayward, Drake, lurkers, if you heard this noxiousness in the real world, you would just nod and smile?

Obviously it was a joke, as others have pointed out. Some found it funnier than others, depends on your sense of humor and if you even have one. It sounds like it may have been a better joke than I originally thought.

I suppose I could have spent a couple dozen posts calling someone a "dick" and carrying on about their "dickishness". You, and many others, found no issues with that. Why do you find that behavior so acceptable and my post so offensive? What about serial posting childish name calling is acceptable to you and a reasonable joke is "noxious"?

[ November 25, 2015, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: Rafi ]

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D.W.
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quote:
I suppose I could have spent a couple dozen posts calling someone a "dick" and carrying on about their "dickishness". You, and many others, found no issues with that.
I just quietly noted that the mod was MIA and expected this place to get a little bit more chaotic in the near future. [Smile]
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The Drake
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I didn't see it noxious, it reflects a worldview that I don't share, and I also wouldn't recommend that any shooter identify themselves as Muslim under any circumstances, lest it incite a bunch of rednecks to incinerate mosques cuz they're gonna take over America if we don't do something!

In real life, my reaction to such things is normally to grimace and move on, not smile and nod. Very similar to my online reaction. I'm also generally in favor of not allowing discussions to be pulled out of the original intent of the thread with dead horses, axe grinding and old beefs, which is why I don't contribute here much any more.

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AI Wessex
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quote:
Could you carve the tree with a religious symbol or adorn it with a rainbow flag and make it a hate crime to cut it down? Of course you'd have to trespass yourself to do any of these remedies.

Can the tree file for a restraining order?

Put an endangered animal in the tree, and it will be a hella big fine for chopping it down.

Relocate the tree to a state with fewer rednecks and fewer chainsaws.

These unhelpful suggestions are brought to you by The Drake.

They're not unhelpful if they save the poor tree from being slaughtered.
quote:
Obviously it was a joke, as others have pointed out.
Everything I say to or about you is a joke, so I don't get why you report or whine about my posts. [FYI, I'm joking when I write this. See me smiling?]
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Sometimes people accuse Rafi of trolling when I kind of think he's not, but here I'm pretty sure he was trolling the leftists on the forum. As such you can distill the content of his message here to "leftist views can be stupid, and I'll make fun of them a bit". I think it's wrongheaded to take the literal message here seriously.

For my sensibility when someone trolls in dark humor I might roll my eyes if I don't find it funny but I know the difference between trolling or taking the piss and stating an ugly opinion. I more or less rolled my eyes at Rafi's joke here but I don't see much value or purpose in taking its content seriously at face value. I might call it immature, but not noxious.

What you describe here is exactly what makes it noxious. The fundamental disrespect behind the distortions is what velcro was calling out as noxious, not the idea that they might be literal.
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
What you describe here is exactly what makes it noxious. The fundamental disrespect behind the distortions is what velcro was calling out as noxious, not the idea that they might be literal.

Well, there is certainly some disrespect for liberal views inherent in the comment, which isn't quite the same as showing disrespect for specific liberals. I don't see making fun of a viewpoint as being that noxious, although it's arguably obnoxious.

Do you really think a statement to the effect of "liberal viewpoints are laughable" is much different from what some liberals here say about conservative or Republican views? I don't think partisan mudslinging is great in either direction, but it's surely inconsistent to only be upset when it's directed at liberals. Reap what you sow, and all that.

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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Do you really think a statement to the effect of "liberal viewpoints are laughable" is much different from what some liberals here say about conservative or Republican views? I don't think partisan mudslinging is great in either direction, but it's surely inconsistent to only be upset when it's directed at liberals. Reap what you sow, and all that.

No, I don't. Attacking a person for what they believe rather than discussing the substance of the ideas is noxious no matter who does it.
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Fenring
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Do you really think a statement to the effect of "liberal viewpoints are laughable" is much different from what some liberals here say about conservative or Republican views? I don't think partisan mudslinging is great in either direction, but it's surely inconsistent to only be upset when it's directed at liberals. Reap what you sow, and all that.

No, I don't. Attacking a person for what they believe rather than discussing the substance of the ideas is noxious no matter who does it.
I agree, except that I see Rafi's joke more as attacking the ideas rather than attacking the people who believe them. He can correct me if I'm wrong about this.
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
I agree, except that I see Rafi's joke more as attacking the ideas rather than attacking the people who believe them. He can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Except he didn't attack the ideas. He made up a caricature of the ideas to attack, which is insulting to and disrespectful of both the ideas themselves and the people who support them.

[ November 25, 2015, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Pyrtolin ]

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AI Wessex
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I don't believe he thinks there is a difference. Conservatives (and some liberals, but fewer) don't make such fine distinctions, else why would 89% of Republicans disapprove of Obama "pardoning" a second turkey?
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Pyrtolin
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I think there's far too much loaded into that kind of response to easily draw conclusions from it. The turkey thing seems like it's the kind of question designed to play up partisanship, not really to illuminate how people think.
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AI Wessex
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Play up or explore, but it reveals an attitude either way.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
I don't believe he thinks there is a difference. Conservatives (and some liberals, but fewer) don't make such fine distinctions, else why would 89% of Republicans disapprove of Obama "pardoning" a second turkey?

Because it's wasteful, entirely lacking in creativity, and conveys no message to the American people other than Obama is bigger than Jesus. Of course those that already believe in the Obasiah like the gesture and those that don't dont
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AI Wessex
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Interesting way of looking at it. He needs to be put in his place, I guess. Is Jesus part of the Thanksgiving holiday?
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
Do you really think a statement to the effect of "liberal viewpoints are laughable" is much different from what some liberals here say about conservative or Republican views? I don't think partisan mudslinging is great in either direction, but it's surely inconsistent to only be upset when it's directed at liberals. Reap what you sow, and all that.

No, I don't. Attacking a person for what they believe rather than discussing the substance of the ideas is noxious no matter who does it.
I agree, except that I see Rafi's joke more as attacking the ideas rather than attacking the people who believe them. He can correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Exactly right - although I would not use the word "attacking". I wasn't thinking of any person in particular. I just found humor in the juxtaposition of something the left hates (guns) being used to defend something they love (trees) by someone they are intent on defending at all costs (Muslims). It's a joke that highlights the tension of such pretzel logic. Of course, when you analyze a joke like this it loses some punch but given the reaction it certainly must have been a little too on target for some.

The only people that should be offended by this are those that want to be, and there are lots of them apparently.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Pyrtolin:
quote:
Originally posted by Fenring:
I agree, except that I see Rafi's joke more as attacking the ideas rather than attacking the people who believe them. He can correct me if I'm wrong about this.

Except he didn't attack the ideas. He made up a caricature of the ideas to attack, which is insulting to and disrespectful of both the ideas themselves and the people who support them.
Are you at Mizzou?
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Pyrtolin
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quote:
I wasn't thinking of any person in particular. I just found humor in the juxtaposition of something the left hates (guns) being used to defend something they love (trees) by someone they are intent on defending at all costs (Muslims). It's a joke that highlights the tension of such pretzel logic. Of course, when you analyze a joke like this it loses some punch but given the reaction it certainly must have been a little too on target for some
The only "pretzel logic" involved is the fantasy you made up to attack. You can make up any logic you want when you assert complete fantasies about what other people stand for instead of having the decency to respect their actual positions.
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Pete at Home
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I love trees and defend the right to bear arms. Tolkien was a huge fan of trees and arguably islamophobic. I found the juxtaposition of guns trees and Muslims in g3's spoof hilarious but the part about shooting someone made it sound a bit hateful.

I do think that belligerent who trespass on others property with chainsaws while drunk should "acceptable losses" in the battle to safe old favorite trees. But the law disagrees, plus I don't own a gun.

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Wayward Son
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quote:
It's funny because it's true.

And that's also precisely why it's simultaneously so offensive to so many.

Cherry, do I really need to tell you that's a lie propagated by Conservative liars? Or are you that far gone? [Smile]
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Wayward Son
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(BTW, Pete, I still think a letter from a lawyer would be the most effective way to handle the situation.)
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