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Author Topic: San Bernadino attack
Rafi
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This, at least for now, seems a little different from a general nut job spree shooting. Police are searching for 3 gunmen, wearing body armor - shades of Paris. Allegedly one shooter is named Farouq Saeed but I have no idea how that has been determined already, sounds too early for that so I'm not buying it just yet. Saw one report of a "device" but could be just a clock, who can tell (dark humor, deal with it).

Currently reporting 12 dead and 20 injured (or is that total 20 casualties). Gunmen are still at large. Just terrible.

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Pete at Home
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I have to eat crow for making fun of the NRA for insisting on armor piercing bullets ...
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Rafi
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14 dead, 14 wounded.

Suspects, still ranging from 1-3, fled the scene in a "dark SUV". Not much else as far as description being released but it sounds like that's all they got so far. Thats pretty thin.

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AI Wessex
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It's sad, pathetic and frightening. Thanks for sharing the early speculation on the name of the alleged suspect and giving us a heads up before the police have had a chance to get that far. It would be disturbing if it turns out to be terrorism, but it could turn out that that the shooters are just “transgendered leftist activist[s]” or Democrats.
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AI Wessex
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FWIW, we know so little that almost all information about the perps is highly speculative. It's also speculated that it's possible that the "black SUV" had people fleeing the scene, not perps.
quote:
I have to eat crow for making fun of the NRA for insisting on armor piercing bullets ...
Who in this scenario would be using armor piercing bullets? I would assume the shooters would, but the NRA would want the people inside the shelter to be armed, as well. If the shooters wore armor, the NRA would want everyone to wear it. If there were three coordinated shooters, the NRA would want people inside of buildings to be organized into civilian strike forces. That should be good enough, I guess.

[ December 02, 2015, 05:18 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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kmbboots
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We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something really bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

[ December 02, 2015, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: kmbboots ]

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AI Wessex
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

Somehow we skipped over the skinhead shootings of black activists in Minnesota. The black activists should have been armed, but then they would have been armed blacks.
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Pete at Home
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Some organizations have a very effective "adopt a nut job" program. Folks that would "ordinarily" just take out themselves and a wife, now get armed and directed and apparently given body armor.

I wish they could just adopt tornados instead, just like they did in the good old days and claim that the deaths were the will of Ba'al or whatever.

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AI Wessex
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Like who?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

Somehow we skipped over the skinhead shootings of black activists in Minnesota. The black activists should have been armed, but then they would have been armed blacks.
Why is it you think dead black activists don't deserve their own thread but only a footnote on this one? Is it because they are black?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
Like who?

Let's see .. it was an odd name. Bacon Butt? Ham Ass? Something like that. Street gang that runs the Gaza strip. Ever heard of them?
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AI Wessex
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How does that relate to this event?

I wasn't suggesting that the black activists don't deserve their own thread, but I am a little surprised that nobody here started a thread.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
quote:
Originally posted by AI Wessex:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

Somehow we skipped over the skinhead shootings of black activists in Minnesota. The black activists should have been armed, but then they would have been armed blacks.
Why is it you think dead black activists don't deserve their own thread but only a footnote on this one? Is it because they are black?
I don't think they died. Thank goodness.
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Pete at Home
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Have you been suspended from starting threads or something?

Glad no one died. Where was this again?

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kmbboots
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In the BLM shootings in Minnesota last week.
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something really bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

I don't think those others are in the same class. A shooting at 1:30 AM of one person by one person where arrests have already been made is not quite the same as a coordinated 3 man, daylight assault, multiple dead/injured, including potential bomb, where the shooter team is at large.

You're talking about criminal acts. This has all the earmarks of a terrorist attack. It's not criminal. They're not spree shooters that just snapped (like Sandy Hook or Colorado Theater).

The question here is, domestic terrorists or international types like ISIS. It's worlds apart from the events you bring up for comparison.

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The Drake
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The target is a bizarre one, I guess we'll have to wait and see what kind of twisted worldview led to that.

The Farooq rumor isn't clear where it started. Where a name would have come from is even more interesting, as already pointed out.

As I search twitter for this name and San Bernadino, I see the earliest mention being a site called Weasel Zippers, an original tweet not a retweet, looks like?

If you look through their feed they also quote-retweet the following:

"1-3 suspects, male unknown race, believed to have been involved in the shooting and are still at large"

with the title

"BOLO says 1-3 males of hispanic or middle eastern origin"

Articles on their website over the past few days:

"ISIS Beheads Russian Spy"
"Al-Qaeda Seizes Control of Two Towns In Yemen"
"US Efforts Against Islamic State So Pitiful, Iraqis Now Believe They're In Cahoots"

hmmmm...

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AI Wessex
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In fairness, at least one (beheading) of the things you mention from the Weasel site is also reported in the MSM. They seem to focus on news of just one sort, and some of it (like the name in this shooting) are speculative, if not hopeful. In other news, apparently AQ and ISIS are fighting each other. There was a report this morning that AQ took out the entire leadership of ISIS in one area. It's an internecine war that reminds me of watching Godzilla vs Rodan when I was a kid. The authorities waited for one of them to kill the other and then they stepped in and wiped out the winner. I think that was Perry Mason's first case [Wink] .

[ December 02, 2015, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something really bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

I don't think those others are in the same class. A shooting at 1:30 AM of one person by one person where arrests have already been made is not quite the same as a coordinated 3 man, daylight assault, multiple dead/injured, including potential bomb, where the shooter team is at large.

You're talking about criminal acts. This has all the earmarks of a terrorist attack. It's not criminal. They're not spree shooters that just snapped (like Sandy Hook or Colorado Theater).

The question here is, domestic terrorists or international types like ISIS. It's worlds apart from the events you bring up for comparison.

ZZZZOOOOOMMMMMMM...as my point goes right past you.
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The Drake
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I'm not suggesting that any of their website reports is inaccurate (I didn't read them), just that it reflects one of their main interests.

I'm not even suggesting that the Farooq thing was fabricated, they may just be so immersed in their passion that they made a legitimate error.

And I mostly agree with Rafi, assuming it WAS multiple guys. Note that most of the official reports have been talking about 1-3 suspects, so it could be one guy. Also, you'd have to classify Columbine as a terrorist act under that framework rather than a duo of nutjobs.

*update : looks like they have suspects down, hearing about two of them.

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Pete at Home
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What about the unibomber? Or Breivik? Button or terrorism is a false dichotomy. Some Nutjobs are more capable of terrorism than average. Easier for a nutjob to care more about getting attention than staying alive. And terrorism is ultimately all about getting attention.

[ December 02, 2015, 07:25 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by The Drake:
*update : looks like they have suspects down, hearing about two of them.

Hey, that could just be a nutjob with a VERY severe case of multiple personality disorder, like the Boston Marathon Bomber.
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AI Wessex
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Button?
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AI Wessex
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Apparently they intercepted the SUV about 2 miles from where the shooting took place, but 3 hours after they left the scene. Lots to unravel...
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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
We now have a thing in this country known as "general nut job spree shooting". We actually ask, was this a normal nut job spree shooting or something really bad? BTW, there were also GNSS in Savannah and Houston today.

I don't think those others are in the same class. A shooting at 1:30 AM of one person by one person where arrests have already been made is not quite the same as a coordinated 3 man, daylight assault, multiple dead/injured, including potential bomb, where the shooter team is at large.

You're talking about criminal acts. This has all the earmarks of a terrorist attack. It's not criminal. They're not spree shooters that just snapped (like Sandy Hook or Colorado Theater).

The question here is, domestic terrorists or international types like ISIS. It's worlds apart from the events you bring up for comparison.

ZZZZOOOOOMMMMMMM...as my point goes right past you.
Try making your point clearly next time. [Wink] . Zoom, zoom.

[ December 02, 2015, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: Rafi ]

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Rafi
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how did they find the car so fast? Interesting.
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AI Wessex
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Tips
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Pete at Home
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Too bad Rafi already used the clock bomb joke because here is where it would have been funny:

"A federal law enforcement source told The Times that the suspects hurled what were believed to be pipe bombs at police during the vehicle pursuit. Burguan said police recovered one device, but it turned out not to be an explosive"

[Insert clock joke here,]

The secret to a good clock joke, Rafi, is *timing*

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Grant
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Guess: This is like Ft. Hood. Disgruntled employee meets Islamic radicalization, with radicalized accomplices.
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Grant
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quote:
Originally posted by Rafi:
how did they find the car so fast? Interesting.

Dumbass probably drove home. Or tips.
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AI Wessex
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Rampant speculation. The trend is toward a foundation of terrorism rather than the earlier thinking that it was a crazed criminal action, but no idea yet for what cause or belief. That thinking is based on the amount of planning that must have gone into the event and the tactical measures they took by tossing pipe bombs as they were being pursued. The choice of target is still an unknown.

Nobody can yet explain why they hung out for 3 hours in a house only a few miles from the scene before heading out again, nor can they categorically explain how many people where involved and whether any are still on the loose.

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Pete at Home
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Or why they were tossing non-bomb school projects out the window of their car during the chase.
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AI Wessex
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Three new analysts on CNN are now speculating it was a disgruntled employee of the group holding the party with a pliant girlfriend who helped him. Or not. I'm sure they will have identified the shooters by morning, which will likely explain most of the motivation. Or not.
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Pete at Home
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Why the rush? Still waiting for en explanation for Susan Smith and Jodi Arias. Or for that matter, why Lincoln's surgeon made no effort to save his life, and where John F Kennedy's brain went.
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AI Wessex
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The shooters have been identified, and they are married US citizens. They were well-prepared; that leans toward terrorism, but the police don't yet know if the attack was planned for that time and/or place, of if they might never have gone on a rampage.

They had a 6-month old daughter they dropped off at his parents earlier in the morning. He was born in the US, but she was not; both were Muslims. He worked for the county organization that was holding the party. He argued with someone there and then the two of them came back and started shooting. That leans toward the disgruntled employee scenario. The brother-in-law said he had no idea why they did it.

One is tempted to say that mass shootings are so common in the US that they are a daily event. Turns out that would be an accurate guess.

[ December 03, 2015, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: AI Wessex ]

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Pete at Home
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What sort of animals would intentionally go Bonnie and Clyde when they had a six month daughter to take care of?
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Pete at Home
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From Al's link: "The shooting in San Bernardino was unlike nearly every other shooting of its type in the United States in the past decade and a half because it involved more than one assailant, and the suspects managed to flee the scene.

Just two of 160 active shooter episodes from 2000 to 2013 had more than one gunman, according to a 2014 report released by the F.B.I. "

From Columbine we know that a rotten atheist ideology is as apt as a rotten religion to bind two together in a murder suicide pact

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AI Wessex
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But what we don't know is what motivates anyone to do this. The easy explanation is that it is some sort of mental illness or in the case of multiple shooters perhaps a mass delusional conspiracy. FWIW, if you believe that "radical Islam" is behind this or other such killings, you are applying a political adjective to a religious motive, or a religious explanation to a political one. I fear that we will see a new wave of reprisal attacks on non-white groups of all kinds as a result of this event. We could call those who commit those crimes radical Christians and be just as accurate.

I tend to believe that any mass shooting is a form of mental illness, but we have little will or even interest to anticipate these kinds of events or address root causes.

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Rafi
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Multiple Muslims in body armor randomly killing 14 people and wounding 17 more. Bombs. The lefts demand to cast this as simple workplace violence is, yet again, the knee jerk defense of Islam. Creepy and delusional. We are just lucky it didn't go as far as Paris. Damn lucky.

Their house is being described as an "IED factory" with delivery methods like radio control cars. ISIS is celebrating it.

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Rafi
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quote:
Originally posted by Grant:
Guess: This is like Ft. Hood. Disgruntled employee meets Islamic radicalization, with radicalized accomplices.

Well it damn sure can't be Islamic terrorism. That's been contained! CONTAINED!!!!!
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