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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Gore, The Canary of the Democratic Party!?

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Author Topic: Gore, The Canary of the Democratic Party!?
John L
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I'm a Tennessee resident;have been since 1974. But one thing that has perplexed me, over time, is the behavior of the former Vice President.

Miners used to take canaries into the mines in order to act as an alarm in case gas leaks placed them in peril. I see the same thing happening with M.Gore. From the late 70s to today, I have watched him go from level-headed pragmatic Democratic to Absolute Nut! And for the life of me, I can't believe that any wise person who wished to be respected in later years would travel down the path he is taking.

Today is the latest example of this political dementia. Here you have someone of suppposed stature giving a Global Warming Speech , during a day that is the coldest in over a decade!

Then he adds insult to injury , by calling the President "A moral Coward". He also stated, "the Bush-Cheney administration is wholly owned by the coal, oil, utility and mining industries." Wholly owned?

He further states that it is cold because we are warming up. How can one have his scientific cake and eat it too?

The national Center For Public Policy Research is not impress, to say the least. Regardless how you may feel about the global warming debate, this person is becoming convinced that the Gore canary is breating a lot of "Satanic Gases".

Do Democrats really think that this former presidential candidate has his perverbial marbles all in one little sack? I don't think so.

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simplybiological
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global warming causes some areas to get cooler. that's why most scientist use the term "climate change" because it seems less oxymoronic.

example: warming causes ice caps to melt. increased volume slows the gulf stream. england etc rely on the gulf stream for mild winters. when the gulf stream slows down, winter gets cooler.

another reason for such cooling is increased particulates in the atmosphere. i wish people would read the links i post.

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MannyJ
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It's not just you. I am continually amazed at how many bright, moderately well-informed people I know who have somehow managed to miss the entire concept of "global warming," and honestly think it means that all days everywhere will be warmer.

Of course, it would help if the So-Called-Liberal-Media(TM) didn't keep "explaining" odd weather as caused by El Nino. El Nino, apparently, is spontaneously generated from the ether, a causeless cause. Perhaps it will soon begin to write on tablets of stone.

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mv
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Global Warming is a religion, not science, it is based on faith and not the facts.

Attacking Mr. Gore's beliefs shows a high degree of religious intolerance. [Big Grin]

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John L
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It's not just the Global Warming thing. Today's modern William Jennings Bryan, is simply over the deep end in most things logical.

My question is: Are there any Democrats out there who roll their eyes whenever the work Gore is mentioned? Do any Democrats think that this fellow is about to drop to the bottom of the bird cage?

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mv
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But being a Democrat is also a religion.

There is nothing in the Democratic platform or the candidate statements that passes the minimal tests of logic or is minimally consistent or coherent.

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simplybiological
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quote:
Global Warming is a religion, not science, it is based on faith and not the facts.

i seriously hope you're kidding.

if you aren't,
a good paper
some websites
yoinked from the homepage of one of my professors, a big name in climate change biology.

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mv
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quote:
i seriously hope you're kidding.
Sadly, no.

Global Warming is a fraud.

Many of the papers used to justify this "theory" were based on falsified data, including the famous Nature paper in 1996.

This WashTimes article reviews the fraudulent nature of the Nature article as well as the recent extinction article.

It is sad that this particular religion is subsidized by taxpayer money.

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TomDavidson
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Well, it's nice to know that we've got some factless jyhadists from the other side to fight off that other religion, then. [Smile]
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John L
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You guys are missing the point here. Concentrate of the former Vice President, and his sane, or insane behavior! I think that the fellow is truely 'around the bend'.
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Locus
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I'd say he nailed President Bush square on .. though it may have just been a lucky shot.

It'd take real talent to be wrong all the time [Smile]

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simplybiological
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mv,
the paper i supplied is *not* the '96 nature paper, nor does it even CITE the '96 paper. the criticism supplied seemed to me to suggest that climate change will not cause mass extinction, not that climate change is not occurring.

i haven't read the paper recently, but if i get motivated i might re-read and see what i think about the rest of the criticism. but all of climate change biology does not hinge on Chris Thomas, i promise (ooh, that rhymed).

take, for example, the Parmesan et al study that surveyed a ton of species in Europe of all sorts of taxa, and found that species are significantly moving northward. there is no other factor that explains these range shifts. lots of butterflies also exhibit this pattern in the US.

we've had this discussion before in this forum- the idea that the entire scientific community could be duped into believing something whilst a bunch of layman know the "real" truth really doesn't resonate with me. i don't believe it because i'm told to, or even because i'm a tree-hugger- i believe it because i read the papers and look at the data. common sense also plays a pretty significant role.

to satisfy john- i don't mind al gore. i like that he continues to talk about environmental issues, even though he goes largely ignored. i voted for him back in 2000, but i doubt i'd vote for him again. i dunno. i don't think anyone pays enough attention to him to have a real opinion.

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mv
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simplybiological,

quote:
the paper i supplied is *not* the '96 nature paper, nor does it even CITE the '96 paper.
It is not my job to disect every single paper in this "field". My goal in bringing in the '96 paper was to demonstrate that falsification is common among the Global Warming Community, that falsification is often achieved by selective use of data, and that even formerly serious journals like Nature are not immune.

quote:
the idea that the entire scientific community could be duped into believing something whilst a bunch of layman know the "real" truth really doesn't resonate with me.
I'm glad, since this idea is absurd.

In reality nobody currently knows the truth: not the laymen, not the scietific cabal. Climate is one of the hardest numeric problems ever, and we simply do not have enough data to come to any conclusions. And, in the absense of hard data, the cabal tends to adapt a pet theory: this has happened many times before in history. Thirty years ago the pet theory was the Global Cooling, now it is the Global Warming, and in another thirty years it would be The Grand Unified Theory of Global Cooling And Warming.

quote:
i believe it because i read the papers and look at the data.

Are you saying that you actually recheck the data and the computations and try the same computations for all available compatible data sets not covered in the paper? Because if you don't do it, your reading of paper is worthless.
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mv
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John,

Here is a slighly more interesting version of the "Moral Coward" point:

quote:
Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore (news - web sites) scoffed at President Bush (news - web sites)'s plan to send astronauts to the moon and Mars and said Bush was a "moral coward" for ignoring global environmental threats. --Reuters

Yahoo/Reuters

I'm sorry for ignoring your plea to comment on Gore: there is really nothing I can add. We all know that he is a nutcase, he is no longer in a position to do any major damage to the humanity, and he should be allowed to preach his gospel to the believers.

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John L
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quote:

I'm sorry for ignoring your plea to comment on Gore: there is really nothing I can add.
quote:

mv,

I guess you're right. It's just that as a fellow Tennesseean, it bothers me to see someone make such an ass out of himself. I know it's the Volunteer state, but volunteeirng for this sort of thing sticks in my craw.

The fact that he was unable to carry his own state in the 2000 election tell a great deal about his stature in his home state.

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mv
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John,

Come'n, please, you got nothing to complain about.

quote:
The fact that he was unable to carry his own state in the 2000 election tell a great deal about his stature in his home state.
Well, he did carry mine (NY). Worse yet, *right now* my a@@ feels frozen, my hands feel frozen while typing, while Gore is making stupid jokes. Worse yet, while you did get rid of him, and TN is not likely to come up with the 2nd edition, we still have have the pleasure of our senator and mayor, and either one is quite a bit worse than Gore.

Gore at least was inventive: internet, love canal, root canal, journalism, ice tea, and -- I forgot -- something else. Our duo is both boring and dangerous.

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Locus
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mv ,

That draft you're feeling about now took Hillary years of hard work in office to achieve ..she managed to reverse global warming for not just NY ..but the whole east coast. Imagine what she'll do when she's president [Big Grin]

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John L
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quote:
I'm sorry for ignoring your plea to comment on Gore: there is really nothing I can add.
mv,

You sure got that right. We'll see what the former mayor can do in a couple of years to help solve one of those problems. Rudy has more class under his coxix than she has in toto.

I think that for a lot of fun, you folks should nominate and elect Christopher Hitchens. Now THAT would be fun!

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Serotonin'sGone
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man mv, have I got some good waterfront property in India for you. I can assure you you'll love it. In 20 years it will probably have quadrupled in value, at least....
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mv
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quote:
You sure got that right. We'll see what the former mayor can do in a couple of years to help solve one of those problems. Rudy has more class under his coxix than she has in toto. --John

Rudy *might* run for Senate in two years indeed (I have my doubts: he is really an executive type), but this would do nothing to reverse the Taxberg's destruction of the NY economy. The only hope is that Rudy would come back to the old job...but it may be too late for us.

quote:

That draft you're feeling about now took Hillary years of hard work in office to achieve ..she managed to reverse global warming for not just NY ..but the whole east coast. Imagine what she'll do when she's president --Locus

Hmm,...possible. DId any democratic candidate -- Dean, perhaps, -- actually promise to implement global warming? (If yes, as of today he got my vote: Screw WoT, screw Moon, screw Mars, it is too darn cold here.)
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Locus
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mv,

NYC is a funny thing. You'd think from the summers there it couldn't get so cold in the winter.

Somehow nothing is quite as cold as asphalt and concrete.(nor as hot in summer)

Just think of it as training for a hot summer day on Mars [Smile]

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LetterRip
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What '1996' paper are you refering to? I tend to not recall papers by date, and Mr. Michaels did not list the paper by name.

Since you agree with his assessment clearly you've read the paper and have the competence to judge its merit right?

As to the recent nature paper regarding a model for extinctions.

Mr. Carl Zimmer has been kind enough to debunk most of the disinformation being spread about the article.

http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/001156.html

I'll address the rest of the problems later that are specific to Michaels (Michaels was wrong or misleading on nearly every point on the extinction part of the article(the other I don't have the name of so I can't judge his claim), which is rather impressive. I can't tell if he so incompetent as to be laughable, or believes that fellow skeptics are so gullible that he can make huge errors and they will be completely oblivious. )

LetterRip

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mv
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quote:
Just think of it as training for a hot summer day on Mars ==Locus
Do you really need any training? -- Temperature for Mars rover at lunchtime: 12 degrees; temperature in U.S. Northeast: minus 13 to 9 degrees

===

Append:

quote:
Since you agree with his assessment clearly you've read the paper and have the competence to judge its merit right?

No. While I do have the necessary background, I have not followed any climate-related work since late 80's.

As I have stated before, these are unproved theories which replicate the Armageddon concept of the Christianity within the enviroreligion establishment. Both visions are meant to inspire religious frenzy, neither can be scientifically justified at this time.

[ January 16, 2004, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: mv ]

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TomDavidson
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Wow. Just two threads over, I referred to the FreeRepublic, and we've got an example of their kind of argument right on this thread. [Smile]
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John L
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Here's someone else, who seem to get it. I wonder if he is a "Moderate"?
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Enumclaw
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quote:
Today is the latest example of this political dementia. Here you have someone of suppposed stature giving a Global Warming Speech , during a day that is the coldest in over a decade!
Would you be mocking him and making fun of him if he were giving the speech in, say, mid August on the HOTTEST day in years?

Of course not.

The temperature of the day he's speaking has very, very little to do with whether or not what he's speaking about is a real threat.

Personally, I'm a skeptic of the whole global warming hysteria, but even *I* can see that.

I think you're just such a Gore-hater that you cannot be objective and serious about the guy, and therefore you post silly stuff like this.

Paul

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