Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Is Dungeons & Dragons a threat to children? (Page 5)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: Is Dungeons & Dragons a threat to children?
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JWatts:
Oh sure, I'm game.

Delighted to oblige.

The instructions are, the brothers (for some reason they decided to make their characters brothers) traveled to an 8,000 year old ruin called "The Blue Shrine"

The priestess (a halfling priestess of elemental water, conveniently named "Squirt") tells them that it's critical that they stop at no villages and talk to no one along the way to the Blue Shrine.

When they reach the Blue Shrine, they are to talk to find an ancient set of statues at the center of the shrine. They are to recite a set of incantations that Squirt tells them then spit into a fountain, then recite another set of incantations. Then Squirt tells them that one of the statues is going to tell them something, both in words and hand-gestures, and that they need to memorize both the words, the tune, and the gestures, and then come back to Squirt and tell them exactly what they were told.

Along the 30-day or so travel, the brothers end up fighting various wilderness monsters, and avoiding benign encounters to avoid conversation per the instructions.

They finally arrive at the Blue Shrine, all excited to hear the 8,000 year old message.

They are about to be horrified and disappointed ...

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fortunately, my kids are 14 years old and 10 years old, so they were not aware of the cultural reference that I was about to employ.

As best I could, I acted the part of the statue, and imitated the Numa Numa kid while singing the song.

http://www.ornery.org/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/6/15737.html

At this point, I had them both roll Will saving throws ...

(anyone still reading?) ...

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
D.W.
Member
Member # 4370

 - posted      Profile for D.W.   Email D.W.   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The thing I remember most about D&D with my family is mom playing the DM and dad saying, back in my day I didn't get a +1 weapon till I was level..."

Yep, a walked to school uphill both ways story... about D&D. Nerdom was all but guaranteed at birth.

Posts: 4308 | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cool! Your parents introduced you to the game? I don't know any other parents that play it with their kids. But my boy loves it. My ex wife even still joins in, sometimes.

...

On with the story ...

As the brothers travel back through the desert towards their village, there are instances where they hear each other singing that song they learned from the statue. They quarrel about it. Stop it! No, you were the one that was singing it.

<funny thing is, while I started it as a game mechanic, telling them that they thought each others' characters were singing it, my sons are so suggestible that they actually started doing it unconciously ... I gave them bonus xp for role-playing a magical curse effect, even though I don't think they did it on purpose. The younger son was quite irate that he couldn't get the song out of his head.>

Since their instructions didn't preclude the brothers from stopping at various places on the way home, they stopped at a small city, or rather, a permanent outpost that's been built up on the ruin of a huge ancient city (looks like Venice, except that the lake has dried up around it. The main industry of this outpost is actually looting the ruins of the ancient city for scrap iron). Their purpose: to replenish their water, and to sell various hides, horns, and teeth that they had accumulated from monsters they'd slain along the way.

But as the brothers climb the ramps up into the bazaar section of the outpost, the younger brother starts singing that song. <fails a saving throw>

Then he starts dancing, moving his hands about.

it spreads through the entire outpost <every person seeing one of the dancers has to save> and finally the older brother is taken up by the curse as well, and then there's a blackout, no one remembers anything ...

[ September 25, 2012, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
... when the brothers come to, they are back in their home village, in the tent of the halfling priestess, Squirt.

Squirt tells them that some friends of hers had been passing through the outpost, Celik, and that the entire village had been caught up in some dancing trance. These friends had recognized the brothers, and brought them back to Squirt.

They tell her what happened, and she advises them not to go back near Celik.

Later, other travelers end up telling the brothers that a band of halflings had come in and robbed Celik of all it's gold and iron while the whole city was, for some reason, dancing around wildly.

After a while, the brothers noticed that the priestess was wearing much fancier clothing.

<end of story>

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pete, I don't play any D&D anymore due to time constraints and the relative difficulty of getting a good group. Generally, all the fun groups I've played with were friends first. And since my friends all have jobs, kids and tend to be all over the country, I gave it up.

Since then I've taken up board games as a hobby. Still fun, but not as time intensive and capable of being played in shorter and less frequent sessions. If your busy for a month, it doesn't really mean much. There will just be a few new games at the table when you get back. Also, it always seems a little easier to get into a group with board gamers. If you've got extra time you might try out a local group. Yes, it's terribly geeky, but it's quite fun. And generally board gamers are pretty welcoming to newbies.

You sound like you might have an itch to get out and role some dice and many of the current board games have a thematic component. Yes, I'm a blatant board gaming pimp. [Wink]

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I don't even know what board gaming in that sense means. I do hate the huge amount of time that goes into character design in 3rd edition D&D.

I'm a simulationist with a role-playing emphasis, whereas what you describe sounds more like a gamist emphasis. Is that fair to say? Or is there a simulationist and role-playing aspect?

I'm trying to arrange to move to the Southeast to be near my kids. It means giving up law for a year, and living in rather frugal conditions, with no internet, but I'll be near my boys. [Big Grin] The boys are psyched about games every other week. They checked out my microscopic new home and said it will work for the game.

[ September 25, 2012, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JWatts
Member
Member # 6523

 - posted      Profile for JWatts   Email JWatts   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
I'm a simulationist with a role-playing emphasis, whereas what you describe sounds more like a gamist emphasis. Is that fair to say? Or is there a simulationist and role-playing aspect?

Well it depends on the game. There are a lot of different board games. (I own around 200). I prefer strategic games. And generally ones that involve inherent economic models and engines. Role playing aspects vary widely. Some Euro's (a particular type) are pretty dry, whereas AmeriTrash games tend to be thematic. (Heavy on the chrome.)

Some games, like Battlestar Galactica have a large role playing element. The game plays from 4 to 6 players. In a 6 player game, 4 players are human and two players are secretly Cylons. This includes not knowing who the other Cylon is. The Cylons win by effectively sowing seeds of dissension among the humans, but not obviously. And sabotaging the humans efforts, but not obviously.

As a Cylon, if you manage to lead the human crew into jailing the 'obvious Cylon' over their sincere, but in vain objections you'll probably win. [Wink] Of course if you accidentally manage to jail the other Cylon you'll probably loose. [LOL]

However, most games don't tend to have that much innate role playing. But, I tend to ham it up a little more than most games call for in any case.

quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
I'm trying to arrange to move to the Southeast to be near my kids.

Well if you are going to be cruising through Nashville, feel free to send me an email and will meet up for a meal.

[ September 25, 2012, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: JWatts ]

Posts: 4700 | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Cool. A Cylon murder-mystery dinner [Big Grin]
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I may take you up on that invite, JWatts.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Introduced my oldest nephew to the game today. It was a good first game for him: he killed a young dragon, kissed a mermaid, and rescued a werewolf in distress. [Big Grin]
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fizz
Member
Member # 1706

 - posted      Profile for fizz   Email fizz       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was discussing about introducing young kids to rpg with a friend of mine, an old gamer, about his sons.
That made me think about the many possibilities about actively using them, with obviously a parent supervision, as a true and proper teaching tool.
Remembering some of the techniques my mother used with me when I was a kid when she helped me with my homeworks, and some of my experiences with my quite younger brother, I thought a few that I wanted to share here, as I have no sons/daughters/nephew on my own to experiment! [Smile]

The most obvious is helping kids with some basic mental math: having the kid calculate bonuses, results, percentages and so on without the help of a calculator should help him/her develop some useful mental muscles.

Always on the topic of math, as a GM it should be possible to design some puzzles to be solved to be able to defeat a monster/access a treasure chest etc. coincidentally quite resembling some of the kid math and physics homework... like for example, having to defuse a trap by having the kid calculate how much water will it take to fill the pit...

Same tactic for a bit of grammar: linguistic-based puzzles should be a good complement for the school topics.

History and geography could be dealt with by playing a time-travelling campaign: have the kid be the time-traveller troubleshooter intent in repairing history proper course, learning about far places and times and customs by "living" them.

Last but not least, rpg can be a powerful moral teaching tool.
Put the kid in moral quandaries, educational situations, and let him/her live the consequences of his/her choices in a safe situation where the consequences will hit only the character and not the player.

It would be interesting if a buch of "involved parents", maybe with some teaching experience, joined to develop some "educational adventure modules" to help other parents to do this in the right way...

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Love your idea of timed math word problems to defuse a deadly trap. I have done most of the other educational tricks you describe. Trouble is, my older son (the A student) tends to do all the mental work for his younger brother, even adding his saving throws and hit bonuses and tracking hit points. The only thing Thing 3 does is add up the damage, presumably because that is more exciting (he loves the Cleave feat.)
I would love to hear more educational ideas.

As for moral dillemas, my favorites are the good Samaritan thing where you are in a hurry but run across a wounded stranger, and the oops scenarios where you accidentally kill an innocent bystander, so do you hide the body, or comfort the family and try to make restitution?

Another question I would like input on:

I have been playing Dark Sun Campaigns exclusively for 18 years, and only this month started something else, a homebrew campaign. Kind of a steampunk 1700s level game. Dwarves and goblins are dominant races, exploiting less technically savvey peoples. I have been using humanoid corporations (I call them charters) to drive the game. One is based on the East India Trade Company,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

another on Dole Pineapple, and others based on 1720 versions of Haliburton and Monsanto. Any other great historical exploiter corporations I could use? The sort that start wars and destroy whole towns to increase their bottom line?

I would be particularly delighted if someone could show me an historical example of a proxy war fought between corporations using nations or guerilla native groups as proxies. It's 1 thing for Dole Pinapple corporation to get the Queen of Hawaii deposed to prevent democratization which threatens to increase labor costs, but if I could see Coke Battle Pepsi in some Asian Land War, that would be particularly useful.

[ January 16, 2013, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fizz
Member
Member # 1706

 - posted      Profile for fizz   Email fizz       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, you could use the South Sea Company and the Mississippi Company, both around 1720, as example of economic bubbles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company

Also if you wanted to explore a bit the slavery business, the Royal African Company would be interesting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Africa_Company

It does speak of a later period, from start of '800 early '900, but as it's fantasy you take some inspiration by the Great Game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Game


About some other tricks you could use to have them work a bit: introduce complex currencies, give them treasures in strange units and valuable items, and then have merchants try to cheat them when they try to monetize it.
Another one for linguistic skills: first have them memorize some adequately chosen small real poems as part of some spell ritual, and them let have them write some on their own to obtain a result. For example, a kind of genie that grant wishes as long as they're expressed in verse, and that's more precise and powerful the more the poetry and the recitation is good.
Wishes also give you a classic opportunity to learn to be precise in their speech: pervert the meaning of their wishes until they learn to be good little lawyers in their formulations.

A moral trick I always use with my players is to subtly present them with temptations of little evils for an immediate payout, and later hitting them repeatedly and for a long time with all the consequences of their actions.
One time one of my player took only a small bribe to close one eye, that led to a theft, the ruin of a good npc, the rise of an evil one, the character being blackmailed, having to side with the evil one for bigger and bigger crimes, losing his good fortunes, having to run, being disgraced, exiled, hunted... well, maybe it's a bit too dark for kids, but to give an idea... [Razz]

Posts: 153 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you. The Royal African company was particularly useful. I've woven the details into a corporate villain, Seed & Labor Investors, Chartered. (SLISh)

And Although I have no idea how I could use it in the game, It is fascinating to know That the Cold War can be viewed as the continuation the centuries old struggled that had begun as a conflict between British and Russian capitalists.

This weekend's going to be the third game of this new campaign, the players about to find out the troubles in the area are not just a bunch of random goblin raids. SLISh has been using goblin mercenaries to clear the area for a massive covert shipment of muskets and powder to rebels in a neighboring Duchy, where the Duke is allied with SLISh's main competitor, GASh.

Thus begins the first chapter of what historians will call"the parsley wars".
[Big Grin]

[ January 17, 2013, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pyrtolin
Member
Member # 2638

 - posted      Profile for Pyrtolin   Email Pyrtolin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
The sort that start wars and destroy whole towns to increase their bottom line?
I can't help but think of Henry Clay Frick and the Johnstown Flood when you put it that way.

Of course that happened because he was trying to skimp on maintenance costs for his private club, not even in pursuit of something as lofty as higher profits.

Posts: 11997 | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank you for the reference.
Actually did help.

Of course I haven't abandoned the fantasy element. You should have seen my kids faces, When they found out that the reason that 1 of the corporations was behaving so erratically trying to collect money, waas that they had borrowed heavily from a Dragon

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wayward Son
Member
Member # 210

 - posted      Profile for Wayward Son   Email Wayward Son   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Borrowed from a dragon???

Now that's cool. [Big Grin]

Posts: 8681 | Registered: Dec 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It occurred to me that a Dragon would be the ultimate loan shark. Lots of treasure at its disposal, greedy for a heavy return on investment, has a bad temper about not getting paid, and not someone to be trifled with.

Glad you like the idea. We have enough gamers on this forum, might be fun to exchange story ideas here.

I tend to run free flow campaign for the characters decide what to do. My son's characters are arming peasants with muskets to revolt against a 2000 year old backwater feudal system. They're getting back to buy arrival corporation to the corporation thats backing the feudal government. For my son's it's a war about freeing people from oppression. For the corporations to struggle over who's going to control the parsley trade. Apparently dwarves flip for parsley. The goblins call it to dwarfnip.

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Haggis
Member
Member # 2114

 - posted      Profile for Haggis   Email Haggis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
My son's characters are arming peasants with muskets to revolt against a 2000 year old backwater feudal system.
Please tell me you're using the metric system, and not polluting his mind with inches, feet, and miles.
Posts: 1771 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The great gnomish alchemist Simone de Maitre (who later became mentor and mother in law to renown explorer and inventor Garl Glis d'Or, published the Maitric system way back in the early 29th year of the Age of Reason. The Teluran Kingdom adopted the Maitric system in 2848 AR, (which IIRC was the same year that Garl was expelled from the Lycee d'Alchimie for inventing gunpowder on school grounds.) The republic of Nurn followed in the 29th century, In 3326 AR, the goblin lich Queen Victoria mandated exclusive use of the Maitric system throughout her empire. And the United City-states of Brenheim adopted the system in the early days of the 3rd Dwarven Republic, 3821 AR.

Unfortunately, most humans live in Duchies which do not use the Maitric system , but fumble around with archaic measurements such as feet, miles, etc. The only exception is that the do use the Maitric system for temperature, since all the thermometers are made in Gnome and Goblin lands.

[ March 16, 2013, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The pernicious persistence of an ancient and confusing measuring system is one of gravest of many misfortunes plaguing the humans of the Riverlands. The human duchies are the remnants of the llands of Albion, which was ceded by the king of Telure to its human, newly emancipated human former slaves. (To thiz day, the easiest way for a gnome to pick a tavern fight with a human in the Riverlands is to say, "you, sir, just illustrated why we never should have taught you monkeys how to speak") Since Emancipation occurred in the 26th century of the Age of Reason, the humans never got the Maitric system. Most humans who even know what a centimeter is, either live in dwarven or Goblin occupied Colonies such as Ghulim or Midheim, or scramble for day labor in Thorsdam.
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
finished the previous campaign arc.

Working on a new campaign villain: a pixie sorceror vampire.

Any ideas? Looking for something funny but playable.

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I can't remember who from Ornery was asking me a few weeks ago about writing good D&D adventures. Here's a novel that tells the sort of story that I'd consider a model starting adventure for a new campaign:

http://www.amazon.com/City-Thieves-Novel-David-Benioff-ebook/dp/B0018QSNYK

(St Petersburg is under siege and people are resorting to cannibalism. The PCs meet in a cell, awaiting their hanging, one for desertion and one for looting. The colonel offers them a way out of the noose: go behind Nazi lines and get a dozen eggs to help prepare the wedding cake for the colonel's daughter)

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1