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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Hezbollah offers to help circulate F-911

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Author Topic: Hezbollah offers to help circulate F-911
Pete at Home
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quote:
According to Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment has been contacted by organisations related to the Hezbollah in Lebanon with offers of help.

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1240819,00.html
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Ivan
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lol...
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Zyne
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Most excellent!
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Adam Masterman
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This is a troll.
Adam

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witless chum
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Nice to see Hezbollah not blowing things up.

Dan

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ben5
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Lol
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Ron Lambert
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This puts the lie to the idea someone floated that the Islamic terrorists would like to see Bush continue in office. Clearly, if you vote against Bush, you are siding with Hezbollah.
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Clearly, if you vote against Bush, you are siding with Hezbollah.
Well I guess I'd better get fitted for my explosive vest then...
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vulture
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RonL:

I don't think anyone ever claimed that Hizbollah were pro-Bush, given his very pro-Israeli stance. It is (alledgedly) Bin Laden who wants to see Bush re-elected. The thinking goes that OBL's cause is the 'clash of civilizations', polarising it as the west vs Islam. Bush plays along with this quite happily, since he seems to view it (and talk about it) in similar black and white terms. A more wishy-washy liberal type president is worse for OBL (so the thinking continues) because he (or she (as if)) would be more likely to try some kind of moderation of US policy, attempt rapproachment with Islamic nations, and generally undermine OBLs us v them rhetoric by offering a viable, non-violent way of settling east-west issues. And that argument has nothing to do with Hizbollah.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
This is a troll.
Why is do you say this is a "troll," Adam?

Do you mean that it's biased and slanted? My source is THE GUARDIAN, which is a very leftist and anti-Bush source. The Guardian's stated source is "Screen International, the UAE-based distributor Front Row Entertainment." So I can't see how you could intelligently argue that the information is biased against you.

Are you saying that the information is not relevant, or does not shed light on the discussion? Well The Guardian staffers evidently thought that it was newsworthy, since they dedicated an article to this info, entitled Fahrenheit 9/11 gets help offer from Hezbollah. Additionally, one of Michaelmoore’s major arguments in F911 is that Bush is flunking the war on terror, is it not? If a major terrorist organization that the USA considers affiliated with Al Qaeda, desires to circulate this F911 propaganda, are you completely unaware that this fact arguably undermines Michaelmoore’s claim that Bush is flunking the war on terror?

So obviously the source is not biased against Michael Moore, and obviously it’s relevant to our discussion here. So why do you say it’s a troll? What does the word "troll" mean to you, Adam?

Surely you don't mean that this thread is a "troll" because it contains inconvenient facts.

Do you?

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David Ricardo
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Al Qaeda explicitly endorsed George W. Bush for re-election in one of their kind public service announcements.

I see no reason why Hezbollah's endorsement of F9/11 is incompatible with Al-Qaeda endorsement of Bush's re-election. They both make perfect logical sense to me.

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Pete at Home
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Ron said:
quote:
This puts the lie to the idea someone floated that the Islamic terrorists would like to see Bush continue in office.
No, actually, it doesn’t “put the lie” to that ridiculous idea. (FYI, it was THE GUARDIAN that floated that ridiculous idea, the same source that I quoted to start this thread.) It is possible (though I think doubtful) that some Islamic terrorists might desire Bush elected, while others might want Bush defeated. I personally think that the highest priority of Bin L. and Al Z. re US elections would not be to defeat or to elect Bush, but to set themselves up and hedge their threats so that it APPEARS that they swayed the elections, regardless of how it goes, to build their prestige among anti-Americans.

quote:
Clearly, if you vote against Bush, you are siding with Hezbollah.
I vehemently disagree. Michaelmoore has clearly sided with Hezbollah against Israel (read Stupid White Men), but Kerry, while not as pro-Israel as Bush Jr., is still Pro-Israel.
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Ivan
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quote:
Michaelmoore has clearly sided with Hezbollah against Israel (read Stupid White Men),
I have. I don't recall when Moore defends or supports Hezbollah. Could you please refresh my memory?
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Pete at Home
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I said he sided with Hezbollah against Israel. That's not the same thing as defending or supporting Hezbollah. SWM emphasizes and exaggerates Israel’s wrongs against Arabs, while minimizing and de-emphasizing the atrocities of terrorist orgs like Hezbollah. In my mind, anyone who draws moral equivalence between Israel’s actions to protect itself, and terrorist attacks that target civilians and children, is on Hezbollah’s side. You might see it differently. But Moore takes it even farther than moral equivalence, pretending that the terrorist attacks on Israelis were just responses to unprovoked Israeli attack on civilians. How can you reasonably say that someone that distorts the situation to that extent is not on Hezbollah’s side against Israel?

There's more than that, but I don't have SWM with me.

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velcro
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Pete,

You must be pro-Saddam. Because you are anti-Hezbollah, and Hezbollah is pro-Iran, and Iran was anti-Saddam.

Since I have now proven your guilt as well as you have proven Moore's anti-Israel status, kindly turn yourself in as an enemy combatant.

And Ron said
quote:

Clearly, if you vote against Bush, you are siding with Hezbollah.

OK Ron, if it is so self-evidently clear, then all good Americans would vote for Bush. And since even the most stupid terrorist would realize this obvious consequence, the only reason they would do what they did was because they WANT George Bush to win!

The only fault in THAT logic is your initial premise and duplicating your reasoning.

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Pete at Home
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Velcro, I did not minimize Saddam's crimes while exaggerate Iran's. If I had, you could say that I sided with Saddam against Iran, by my logic. In fact, the USA *did* side with Saddam against Iran.

I did not say that Moore was pro-Hezbollah. I said that he sided with Hezbollah against Israel. He's not really pro-Hezbollah, to my knowledge, but he's very anti-Israel, enough so to whitewash Hezbollah's crimes.

Note also that I did not call Moore a traitor. It is possible for someone to be a good American, and yet an anti-American. Ralph Nader comes to mind. Nader dispises almost everything our country stands for, but he has done more good for this country than most patriots will in their whole lives.

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Zyne
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quote:
My source is THE GUARDIAN, which is a very leftist and anti-Bush source.
Bah. A very mainstream European source, it is.

And very legit.

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Andevian
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Funny how when Palestinians commit atrocities against Israelis, they get that hardcore label of terrorists, but when Israelis do the same to Palestinians, they are given the connotatively more innocent label of vigilantes.

I keep seeing this screwed up logic that if a person is anti-Bush, they are automatically pro-Saddam or pro-Hezbollah or pro-some-other-disgusting-thing. So for anyone to whom that logic makes sense to, please explain it in this context: Two dealers are standing at the end of your driveway fighting over "turf rights" to sell cocaine to your children. Which one do you side with? Given your own logic, if you oppose either of them, you MUST support the other. Just curious if people that use this logic support it in their own lives or only want to apply it to people that don't agree with them.

[ June 30, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Andevian ]

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Serotonin'sGone
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and by atrocity you mean two acts that together haven't managed to kill a single person? I'm not saying these israelis are anything more then worthless scum mind you, but they're not in the same league as the palestinian terrorists. I'll quit calling them "militants" and "vigilantes" when they actually manage to kill someone.

[ June 30, 2004, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Serotonin'sGone ]

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Pete at Home
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I said:
quote:
My source is THE GUARDIAN, which is a very leftist and anti-Bush source.
Zyne replied:
quote:

Bah. A very mainstream European source, it is.

"Mainstreat European" = very leftist, from an american perspective, and very anti-Bush, neh?

Surely you don't maintain that The Grauniad is other than "very anti-Bush."

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Andevian
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quote:
Originally posted by Serotonin'sGone:
and by atrocity you mean two acts that together haven't managed to kill a single person? I'm not saying these israelis are anything more then worthless scum mind you, but they're not in the same league as the palestinian terrorists. I'll quit calling them "militants" and "vigilantes" when they actually manage to kill someone.

I fail to see how any person that targets children can earn the title of vigilante, unless I'm actually supposed to believe those kids did something to deserve having their school bombed. A vigilante targets those who have wronged him, or wronged others, or wronged somebody. A terrorist targets anybody in the general vicinity of their opponents. Whether or not they are any good at it doesn't change anything.
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RickyB
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As an Israeli, I think that Israelis who commit terrorist acts against Palestinian civilians should be punished every bit as harshly as any other terrorist.
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Redskullvw
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zyne

European and legit, but it is also what Pete claimed it was.

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Pete at Home
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Andevian, you are mistaken: All Israelis that I know curse the name of Baruch Goldstein, and I've never heard anyone call him a "vigilante." From my experience it's the Oslamists that get mad when someone draws a moral equivalency between Baruch Goldstein and Hamas. I've heard some Israelis say that Baruch Goldstein was *worse* than Hamas.

[ July 01, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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RickyB
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All Israelis? Sorry to disabuse ya, Pete, but the vast majority of us don't even know you exist [Big Grin]
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Andevian
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quote:
Originally posted by Pete at Home:
Andevian, you are mistaken: All Israelis that I know curse the name of Baruch Goldstein, and I've never heard anyone call him a "vigilante." From my experience it's the Oslamists that get mad when someone draws a moral equivalency between Baruch Goldstein and Hamas. I've heard some Israelis say that Baruch Goldstein was *worse* than Hamas.

It's not the Israeli people at large I'm talking about. I can't read their papers so I don't know what their portrayal of these individuals is and wouldn't attempt to pretend to. I certainly wouldn't imply that Israelis in general support those actions.
I'm just saying, if you look at news sources (the ones I CAN read, anyway), they are using the English language to make it seem like Palestinians targeting Isreali citizens is somehow worse than Israelis targeting Palestinian citizens. That the same image is being repeated by other people is shameful, in my mind. If you violently target kids or a general population, I don't care who you are, who you represent, or whether or not you're successful, you're a terrorist.

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Pete at Home
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Clue to Ricky: "All Israelis that I know," does not equal "All Israelis."
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RickyB
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Oops. I thought you were saying "All Israelis know that I curse" etc. My bad. <feels around blindly for washcloth and proceeds to wipe egg from face.>

There are, sadly, Israelis who think well of goldstein and his atrocity. I'm happy for you that you don't know them.

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Pete at Home
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Sorry to hear that some Israelis support Goldstein. I thought that his support was more from a handful of isolated crazy New York & Detroit rabbis. And some of the Israelis I spoke to that assured me that they thought that Goldstein was "worse than Arafat" were Likudniks who supported Sharon and thought that Barak was a "traitor."
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Hannibal
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Hello

As an israeli, i must side with rickyB, every israeli who takes the law to his hands and chooses to attack palestinians is due to severe punishment. for crimes against the palestinians and and also IMHO for crimes against the israeli democracy.


I must admit, that I have a very Strong feeling of hatered for Goldstein and his followers (who as you also know, have a strong responsibillity in the murder of late PM Rabin)

they are Far worse then Arafat, or the Hamas or any other enemy israel ever faced. and that is because of one single reason. all of israel's enemies are what they are -- enemies, while Goldstein and his psycho followers are supposed to be jewish and israelies.....


and Lastly, about hizbullah, i think that they are putting this show in order to show that they are trying to do somthing after the deal they had with israel. becasue they think that the americans might want to deal with them personaly later on.

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Pete at Home
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Welcome, Hannibal. Yes, every Israeli I've ever discussed this matter with whether they were far left or far right, has said the same thing about Goldstein:

quote:
they are Far worse then Arafat, or the Hamas or any other enemy israel ever faced.
I believe that if most Palestinians and more Arabs spoke of Hamas and other terrorists in this way, that there would be peace.

This is why I am angry whenever someone like Michael Moore draws moral equivalence between Israel's military actions and Hamas' terrorism.

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Hannibal
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yes, but unlike israelis.... most palestinians are blood thirsty barbarians
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witless chum
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Pete, question?
Are all Israeli and Palestinian actions created equal?
If they attack the Israeli military inside Gaza or the West Bank is that the same as blowing up a bus in Tel Aviv. I can't really condemn the former, while I'd prefer the secular democratic socialist (in U.S. terms) Israelis.

Likewise, I'd judge Isreali actions differently by how many innocents they take out to get the Hamas people.

Thoughts?
Dan

edited to add: Soundrack "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots" by the Flaming Lips

[ July 03, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: witless chum ]

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