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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Kerry and the memory of Martin Luther King, Jr

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Author Topic: Kerry and the memory of Martin Luther King, Jr
ATW
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http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=4724&keyword=seared&phrase=&contain=

excerpt from John Kerry's remarks during the Martin Luther King Day Celebration January 20th 2003 speaking of King's assassination:

Seven letters - Citizen—a word Dr. King loved because invested in it were our rights and responsibilities -- a calling to be involved. I will never forget - in particular - what Martin Luther King spoke of when he confessed to being what he called a “maladjusted” citizen.

He said that he simply could not adjust to a world sharply divided between the hardworking many and the privileged few. He could not accept an America where discrimination and bigotry still held citizens down. He had not been able to get comfortable with a society that had become complacent in the face of human hardship and suffering.

I remember well April, 1968 - I was serving in Vietnam—a place of violence -- when the news reports brought home to me and my crewmates the violence back home - and the tragic news that one of the bullets flying that terrible spring took the life of that unabashedly maladjusted citizen.



[Martin Luther King, Jr, was assassinated April 4, 1968]

[John Kerry arrived in Vietnam in November 1968

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Ron Lambert
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Another example of how Kerry constantly invokes the theme of his being in Vietnam as a virtual platform in his candidacy, with no regard whatsoever for factual accuracy.

But perhaps we should not be so crass and politically incorrect as to call Kerry a patholigical liar. He is just -- truth challenged.

[ August 25, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]

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Ivan
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LOL. You'd think he'd get people to proofread his speeches at some point...
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Snowden
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Kerry was on USS Gridley in April of 1968. Honestly, I imagine anyone in today's military in the War on Terror. And I imagine anyone on active duty during Vietnam, in retrospect, just about like how anyone WWII vet who was a soldier during WWII talks about that time as "during WWII," even if they only ever fought in the Battle of the Buldge.

And in twenty-years, some PFC who is currently patrolling the Gulf, but isn't going to see action for the first time for another few months, is going the remember that he was in the War in Iraq during the 2004 Olympics, though the "War in Iraq" is over, and he has yet to be shipped over. When talking about a situation in retrospect, I don't think there is anything even unfactual or misleading about this account.

[ August 25, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: Snowden ]

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WarrsawPact
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Snowden --
He said he was "serving in Vietnam--a place of violence."

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Snowden
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Vietnam wasn't a place of violence?


When I say, "I was in college from 1995-98, and I remember Sosa and Maguire chasing each other's homeruns," I don't think it's fair for someone to say, "You weren't in college for that homerun race, it happened during the summer and you were out of school. I know you weren't in summer school, so you are lying!"

[ August 25, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Snowden ]

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A. Alzabo
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quote:
[John Kerry arrived in Vietnam in November 1968
For his second tour of duty.
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Snowden --
He said he was "serving in Vietnam--a place of violence."

I would consider sailors conducting support operations in a region to be part of X conflict. The Gridley did engage in some operations in what I would consider to be Vietnam during the time frame, but of course I have a Navy bias.
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Snowden
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Ron, Warrsaw, take yourselves seriously. Or not, but if you want me to take you seriously, give this up. He was in the war when King died, and he sure wasn't "back home from the war" when King died.

[ August 25, 2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Snowden ]

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RickyB
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I was about to admit how this is bad on Kerry's behalf, and then I saw that the vast right wing propaganda machine has cranked out yet another misleading piece of hypocricy.

Great example of a republican horror story - it's a slam dunk argument, until you realize the facts aren't quite correct. Apparently he WAS enlisted and shipped out when this happened. Therefore, complaining hwether or not he was IN COMBAT at the time is worse than splitting hairs. How can y'all keep a straight face as you simultaneously insist on minutea like this, AND gloss over the material, blatant contradictions ofthe swifties is beyond me.

Snowden has it exactly right.

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javelin
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Okay, when did Kerry arrive in Vietnam?
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Okay, when did Kerry arrive in Vietnam?
He reported for duty aboard the Gridley in June, 1967. The Gridley sailed for the Gulf of Tonkin in Feb. of that year, and set back towards the U.S. at the end of May. You can see a timeline
here. I would say that every sailor on the Gridley then was "in Vietnam" when King was assassinated.

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javelin
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Thanks for the info, A. Alzabo.
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Adam Masterman
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Where does the GOP find the time to create this stuff? Aren't they in charge now? Thank you Snowden, I was embarrassed by the story untill I scrolled down and saw the rest of the conveniently ignored facts.
Adam

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A. Alzabo
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Just to clarify my earlier post, the Gridley set out for The Gulf of Tonkin in 1968, not 1967.
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ATW
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
I was about to admit how this is bad on Kerry's behalf, and then I saw that the vast right wing propaganda machine has cranked out yet another misleading piece of hypocricy.


I didn't realize I was the vast right wing propaganda machine. I must have been promoted while I wasn't looking?
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Adam Masterman
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Good point, ATW. However, your original post IS misleading, suggesting a lie where there isn't one.
Adam

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Ivan
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Wow. I'm glad someone fact-checked this. You want to talk about misleading... Just goes to show...

ATW-
Ricky was saying that the people who assembled this set of "facts" is part of the "vast right wing propoganda machine". You were simply mislead like the rest of us.

-Ivan

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ATW
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Eh, I wasn't aware Kerry was on a ship, perhaps in the general area, or I wouldn't have brought it up.

I knew Kerry was assigned to a ship for a short while before getting into the swift boats but my impression was that it was in the fall instead of the prior spring.

In any case, I'm half afraid some of Kerry's shipmates are going to be in the news next week telling about how they were on shore leave in New Zealand when word came to them of the assassination. [Big Grin]

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ATW
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Small quibble from the USS Gridley vets site

http://home.nycap.rr.com/pwcarter/the%20kerry%20page.html

Some of Kerry's shipmates talk about him


Phil Carter
When I read “Tour of Duty”, I became concerned because the material on Kerry’s time on GRIDLEY appeared in many instances to be exaggerations and in some cases figments of an overactive imagination. He goes on with a long list examples such as:

Kerry never talked about his time on GRIDLEY [in his book]. He says on page 74 that it is because “nothing much of note” happened while he was onboard. He uses words like monotony and tedious (at odds in tone to the solemn pronouncement: vietnam, a place of violence).


I'd like to recommend that site to anyone who wants to get a glimpse of how one of his superiors sees Kerry vs one of his subordinates. [Hint: Kerry supporters will appreciate the commander. Anti-Kerry people will be ROFL at the subordinate picking apart Kerry's version of events.]

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Gary
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
Good point, ATW. However, your original post IS misleading, suggesting a lie where there isn't one.

Don't you mean "suggesting a rhetorical flourish where there isn't one"? [Big Grin]
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RickyB
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Exactly, Ivan. Thanks.
ATW - sorry. What he said.

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