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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Everquest, Everquest II, City of Heroes (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Everquest, Everquest II, City of Heroes
ATW
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I know we've got some online gamers here.

Anyone played these monthly fee games?

Enjoyable?

Any chance of breaking even in real life by ebaying or otherwise selling the loot you earn?

Everquest II is supposed to be leaving beta and going public on November 8. Should I get into Everquest this morning or wait for II?

Everquest seems to have a lot of versions. Any recommendations?

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TomDavidson
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City of Heroes has been enjoyable for me, whereas most level-treadmill games have not.

And that's the thing you need to keep in mind, by the way: in a MMORPG, in general, the only skill you really need, the only challenge you really have, the only thing of real value, is your time. Death is never permanent, after all, and there's no actual skill involved in combat, so what separates the big fish from the little fish is the amount of time the big fish have invested.

The quality of these games depends on whether the carrots they dangle in front of you are worth all the sticks you have to put up with to get them -- the biggest stick, of course, being the hours of your life that you'll be expected to devote.

If you place very little value on your time, then MMORPGs can be great. You can even make money, if you put little value on your time, by selling the products of your time -- like leveled-up characters and rarely spawned items -- to people who'd like to get those things but place a higher value on their time than you do on yours.

----

To answer your specific questions: wait for II. And if you decide not to wait for Everquest II, you should purchase the latest version of the original Everquest. But City of Heroes is probably the most fun MMORPG in which to invest just a few minutes each day; you can actually have fun in thirty minutes or less, and still feel like you're not useless.

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Koner
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I've been playing Everquest since it was released in 1999. I wouldn't continue to play it if I didn't get some enjoyment out of it. But after this long, Everquest is no longer about killing dragons and getting better swords or armor any longer. Its about the friendships that I've made with people in my player guild and wanting to maintain those.

I beta tested Star Wars Galaxies but never played it when it went live because I didn't think that the game was ready for release. It had WAY too many bugs in it. I started playing that again about 6 months ago but I couldn't get into it so I gave it up.

Since the MMORPG's came about with Everquest, I've tried several others but I just can't get into them. Everquest has a unique quality to it. Sony Online Entertainment is a pain in the rear end. The game has bugs still, as its patched quite regularly and new expansions throw in weird things. But all in all it is an enjoyable game.

If you are thinking of taking up the game and don't have any real life friends who play it now that you are going to play with, check out the Terris Thule server. You can find me there as Caseos, Caseopia or Koner (most likely you'll find me as Caseos he is my current favorite character to play)

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Tezcatlipoca
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I can do better than tell you what a good game is ATW, I can point you towards a gaming outfit, mine to be specific.

I have been playing with them for about 16 months now, and am one of the Province Leaders. I would recommend reading our Path (which is like our mission statement) to find out exactly how we work. We are egalitarian in structure, where anyone can become a higher rank if they are motivated to be. We play many different games, as of now it is Planetside and City of Heros, and we are expanding into Everquest II and World of Warcraft.

You don't need to pay to join, nothing is needed except a willingness to work as a team member when you are participating with a squad in combat situations.

Bellum Aeternus

Edit: Forgot to mention we have an active forum with over 1000 people registered. We usually field well over a hundred people easily in a game, so you can be almost garunteed to be able to find and play with other members.

[ October 27, 2004, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Tezcatlipoca ]

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Jesse
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I've been playing EQ since Beta. The game has come a long way. It's not really accurate that it's merely a time sink based game, although the time sink is a part of it. There was a period when raiding was merely a matter of rinse and repeat healing, but that changed a lot in the last few years. These days, succesful raids take leadership, strategy, discipline, research, teamwork, and yes, practice.

There is more than a little skill involved. I, for example, can productively solo a warrior. Those who buy a character can't, and often tell me that there is no way I can.

On the flip side, the game has been dumbed down a LOT. I really can't believe how easy it is now for new players.

I quit playing after the most recent expansion, waiting for EQII. I have a couple friends that have been in on the Beta for quite a while, and they had horrible reports at first, but the Dev's have really listened to player input and improved it greatly.

I like the focus on smaller raids. It places the stress on quality of play instead of numbers.

I like the focus on providing for short play times (being able to achieve something in half an hour).

The move towards a player driven economy, player made items being equal to most of the "dropped" items (items aquired by killing a big nasty).

Best of all? No more aliens. They promised. No more aliens. (And I'm dumb enough to believe them, *sigh*)

Anyway, the graphics are great, NPCs talk now, the music ain't bad, power-leveling (basically, a high level character casting long lasting powerfull helpful spells on a low level character, helping to kill creatures, and healing the low level character so that the lower-level character insanely easy advancement) is almost entirely a thing of the past.

The best items will be "locked" to the character that aquired them, so selling good stuff won't be a cash making cottage industry the way it was.

Well, in any event, having played SWG for a few weeks, COH for a few hours, and EQ for years, I am really enthusiastic about EQII after leveling a character up to 10 on a friends Beta account.

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Lewkowski
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Play World of WarCraft. (WoW)

EQ2 is simply not done. WoW has been in beta twice as long. WoW is also going to have open beta. So keep an eye on www.worldofwarcraft.com for open beta sign ups. This allows you to test the game for FREE.

EQ2 isn't planning to have Open beta. In fact for a while they had an NDA with their beta testers. Recently its been lifted and I've heard nothing but bad reviews from the testers.

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WillBest
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I played EQ on and off for 3.5 years. It was almost a full time job at times, although it was a ton of fun. I played DoaC, and FFXI was well for substantial amounts of time. I was also in SWG beta (what a crappy game). I just don't have the time to play these games any more otherwise I would still do it.

If you are going to EQ route, wait for EQII. EQ is too far developed, and there aren't a new players in the game, so you will be so far behind the learning curve.

I hear WoW is just EQ with a blizard skin. I know a lot of people that really love City of Heroes because it is, to quote penny-arcade "Eq without the bull****"

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Storm Saxon
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Give Anarchy Online a try. It's a free download, I think, a lot of fun and is very friendly to solo players, players who don't have a lot of time, and group players.
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Jesse
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EQII has actually been getting much better reviews lately.

They seriously revamped game mechanics, and what a lot of people (power gamers) have complained about are the features I and many other love.

There were a lot of silly exploits in EQ that never made a bit of sense to me, but were really appealing to those interested in "bragging rights", twinking and PLing being prime examples.

They are, for the most part, gone. Class balance has been seriously addressed as well, which is irritating to those whose favorite class weakened.

Overall, having played both, EQII is much better game. It spent nearly a year in Beta, BTW.

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Jon Camp
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I've been playing Star War Galaxies since August of 2003. I've had times of really enjoying it and times of not caring one way or the other. Right now, I'm about that close to cancelling it again, but. . . . the space expansion just came out, and while I was in its beta and didn't actually like the space aprt, the ground game changes that are part of it are "free" to me, so. . . I'll stick with it a bit longer I think. I play with several co-workers and friends, and have made some friend in the course of playing it also, and I have to agree with whoever said above that I play more for the chat with friends than for the game itself.

I have a copy of "The Saga of Ryzom" that a friend bought, hated, and gave to me, but I haven't installed it yet, nor do I know if I actually ever will. I'm kinda leaning toward maybe getting EQ2 when it comes out, since most of my friends and co-workers that I play SWG with are planningto play that once it comes out. We'll see.

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Lewkowski
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"I hear WoW is just EQ with a blizard skin"

Within a week WoW open beta will be here. Test it for yourself. The game isn't anything like EQ.

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WillBest
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Lew you sound like somebody from Fires of Heaven.

And if any of you understood that, you play too much EQ.

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Naldiin
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FoH? Of course I understand who FoH is. It's a group of people that are too loud with their opinions, with a warrior in it who is way to loud about his 'opinions'. If they were any more full of themselves they'd explode and spew ego all over the place.

I've played EverQuest since summer 2000. It's been worth it for me, although I think my time in Norrath is finally winding down to a close.

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Lewkowski
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I wasn't even on the same server as FoH...

I was never part of an "ubre guild."

WoW is just a better game. Its been in beta longer. Maybe EQ2 will be good in 6 monthes, but right now WoW is the game to get. Look don't take my word for it. Unlike Sony, Blizzard is going to let people play their game for FREE in open beta.

FoH for those wondering was the "best" guild in EQ in terms of defeating the high end content of the game. (Or atleast that was the case while I was playing haven't played EQ in years)

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WillBest
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Actually, I was more partial to Afterlife as the best guild. They had a lot of "firsts" and weren't all codpieces. Of course they went to WoW too.

I have talked to several people in beta of WoW who said it was EQ like EQ. As one friend of mine, who was trying to convince me to play CoH put it. "WoW is pretty neat, Blizzard looked at EQ and said lets fix it, but Cryptic Studios looked at EQ and said F*** dragons."

I am not knocking blizzards perfectionist attitude. I have enjoyed every game they of published. They average one a every 4 years. In fact, I would be disappointed with them if WoW didn't play better than EQ after EQ had been live for one year. So I am positive that WoW is a solid game. I just question how much it really differs from EQ.

Oh and ATW, SOE started cutting EQ support staff over 2 years ago. They drove away their best GMs, you can probably still find their disgruntled rants on the internet. The game is coasting at this point. The most enjoyable thing about these games is to play with a group of friends whether real or online. You won't be able to find a group as easily on EQ because they already have formed their cliques, and people are leaving it. So definitely hold off for EQII if you are going to go the Sony Route. My recomendation, since you don't have an EQ ties pulling you into EQII, is that you check out your MMORPG options which includes WoW, before committing.

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Jesse
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I've been part of a couple of the ubber guilds on my server, but being in them turns a game into a job really quickly.

Thats one of the good things about EQII, the maximum raid size for the VAST majority of targets will be 24 people. Force of numbers just won't be the way to progress anymore.

Any Sony game, IMO, is always going to have bugs. That's just part and parcel of constant up-dates.

SOE customer service has really turned around in the last six months. They have more GMs on, they had some shake ups in management, the Devs are dictating the release dates instead of the sales team, it's been an impressive turn around.

That being said, what I have seen, there is more difference between EQII and EQ than there is between EQ and WoW.

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ATW
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Thanks for all the comments.

I'm going to avoid EQ and wait to see if EQII works before buying in.

I think I'm going to try out the free preview event of Guild Wars this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. The price at least is right.

http://www.guildwars.com/

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Lewkowski
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"That being said, what I have seen, there is more difference between EQII and EQ than there is between EQ and WoW. "

Hmm possibly. But how can anyone tell? They still aren't near ready for release.

The fact is they want to get the jump on WoW. It was a purely business decision. They evaluated it the costs and the benifits. They are hoping that people who buy the game (Because they are MMORPG addicts and want a new game NOW) won't leave because they already shelled out 50 dollars for it. Right now WoW is more complete then EQ2.

Try WoW when open beta comes. Its free, why wouldn't you try it? [Smile]

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WillBest
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Lew do you work for blizzard? You sound like a crack dealer first hit free, 20pp after that. Ah... crack, how the wizard in me misses thee.
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Tezcatlipoca
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quote:
Lew do you work for blizzard? You sound like a crack dealer first hit free, 20pp after that. Ah... crack, how the wizard in me misses thee.
A company like Blizzard doesn't need a drug dealer to dispense it's product. It is so addictive they can force the customer to come striaght to them. Nothing you can do to stop it...

Blizzard already owns 51% of Korea.

Interesting Fact: Starcraft was the first computer game played in space.

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The Pixiest
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I played on Veeshan. the same server as Fires of Heaven. They simply thought they were the only people on the server. I was trained by them more than once. Heck. I was even trained by Furor himself. He was CRing in Seb and dropped a disco full of frogs on me at the rock. (If you understand that, you REALLY play too much EQ.)

After I retired I played DAOC and quit after I got to #1 in RPs for my class and realized there was no where to go but down. I played SW:G but the Jedi grind got to me. (I understand it's quest driven now but I'm not going back) I tried Lineage (boring!)

And I even tried CoH. CoH was fun for a while but it's so incredibly shallow. There's maybe a dozen different factions and all you do is go on missions to fight them. Either that or run around zones fighting them. There's not even any loot except for enhancements. And you can buy those off a vendor anyway. It might be interesting when CoV comes out but I'd rather play EQ2.

And that's what I'm doing now. Waiting for EQ2. When I found out they'd set a release date and that it was less than two weeks away, I went out and pre-ordered it.

So you say it's buggy and not ready? You can't scare me. I played SW:G, remember? I fear no bugs.

Maybe I'll play WoW in a coupla years when it's released. I know better than to wait for Blizzard. They wait till everything is perfect. And while I admire that and it means they make great games, it also means I get tired of waiting and play something else. I won't be surprised if WoW is released before the end of the year but I'm certainly not counting on it.

Pix

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Tezcatlipoca
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November 22nd Pixiest. For a fact. Happy? [Smile]
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The Pixiest
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Too late Tez. I already ordered EQ2.

See ya there if EQ2 sucks =)

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Koner
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From what I hear from my friends in the EQ2 beta is that it is essentially Diablo 2 on steroids. Meaning that it is very linear with little choice of what to do as far as character progression is concerned but with really cool graphics and fights. from what I read on the SOE website though is that its not designed to be as much of a time sink as EQ is/was. So it sounds like a dumbed down version of EQ but rewarding enough for those who only want to play for 30 minutes a day. There appears to be an emphasis placed on smaller encounters. Does this mean an end to the 72 man raid required for some EQ content? One can only hope. With the emphasis on smaller encounters they claim that players will need to use better strategies to defeat them. Time will tell I suppose.

Myself, I'm an avid tradeskiller. EQ leaves a LOT to be desired as far as tradeskills go. EQ2 CLAIMS that tradeskills will have a higher value, with player created items having equal or higher desirabilty than dropped items. So far from what I can tell, the downside to EQ2 tradeskills is going to be harvesting.

I've been watching the WoW website pretty closely as well and I like what I read there about tradeskills but without having played it I can't be sure. I might just have to give it a shot. Especially if they don't charge a monthy fee to play it. I like the idea of paying for a game ONCE.

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Jesse
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Tradeskilling is completely, and I mean completely, different in EQII.

It's actually a little game unto it's self. You don't just put stuff in a container and hit combine, "rolling the dice" to see if you succeed. Instead, you have to quench your steel at the right time, for the right amount of time, (example).

The maximum raid size, for the vast majority of encounters, will be 24.

The vast majority of encounters will be instanced. Instead of limiting how often the mob spawns, they will limit how often you, personally, can attempt to kill it.

No more ubber guilds blocking progression by killing everything within two hours of a server reset.

I was really, really, disgusted with EQII when i first heard about it, and really unhappy with the details when I started hearing about them, but it's come a long way.

I never said I wouldn't try WoW [Smile] I like blizzards games, I was planning on buying it, but all the better if they have a free beta.

EQII, by the way, isn't really dumbed down, it's just got a smoother learning curve. Compared to what EQ has become, it's more of a challenge. EQ has devolved into the worst sort of "monty haul" game.

I don't know that EQ II really requires more tactics and skill to be honest, but it's a different set of tactics, and that alone provides a lot of fun [Smile] .

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TomDavidson
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"Myself, I'm an avid tradeskiller."

You know, if I were really into MMORPGs, I'd probably be into this part of it; part of me loves the idea of being able to provide a useful service, to tie into some social and economic network.

But my experience with tradeskilling in most MMORPGs is that it's tedious, repetitive, and highly unrewarding of the time you put into it -- and those few things which are rewarding (either emotionally or practically) are quickly disseminated on hints and walkthrough pages throughout the Web, thus becoming so common and abused that they're eventually nerfed.

So what do you like about tradeskilling? There's not really much personal creativity involved in crafting an item; you don't often get to design its attributes, pick its color, or give it an exciting name or custom ability or competitive trait. Your bread, though it could conceivably be more nourishing than someone else's bread if you're playing a game that computes that kind of thing, will be no more chocolatey than anyone else's bread, and will have no more raisins -- unless, of course, it turns out that there's this quest object for the Grapes of the Gods which can, one by one, be placed on the Sun-Kissed Stone of Idyllic Drying until you have a hundred raisins, which produce the Raisin Bread item that heals mana as well as health. And sells on eBay for $3 per lot of 50.

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Koner
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quote:
So what do you like about tradeskilling?
Well as I said in my first response in this thread, EQ has LONG since ended being about the game and has become more about the friendships I have made within my guild. What I like about tradeskills in these games is that you can use them to do something tangible to help other members of the guild. For instance, on any given raid in the Plane of Earth in Everquest a guild might expect to see about 10-12 pieces of loot, this is assuming a full clearing of all 4 rings, the croc and the MA (if you understood all that then you DO in fact play too much EQ). That raid probably required about 45-50 members to pull off within any decent time frame (I'm quite aware that a solid 18 members can do any individual ring in PoE) so a LOT of members are going to go without getting anything for their time. But if its a successful gathering raid a good blacksmith can use the components gathered during that time to make an additional 5-6 pieces of armor. Its this aspect of tradeskills that I like. Being able to reward more members of a guild for their participation. Its just a sad fact that in EQ SOE has placed little value on the player crafted items for the most part.

From what I understand of EQ2 and WoW however tradeskilling seems to be a viable profession choice. In that the artisan will actually gain experience and have character progression solely from crafting. Add to this that player crafted items are going to have equal or greater value placed on them than the "dropped" items will have and it makes tradeskilling a much more fun option for players like myself who like to do this sort of thing. So long as they don't make tradeskill components so ridiculously rare (as is the case in some of the higher end EQ stuff) that it becomes a time sink just to get them, that the end result wasn't worth the time wasted to make.

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Jesse
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As I said, the trade skill mechanics in EQ II won't be based on hitting "combine". It will actually be a little game-within-the-game, in which your sucess will affect the outcome.

Components for extremely good gear will be rare. However, there will be a greater varity of gear. Instead of just being able to make certain type of armor at each skill level, there will be options.

So, if you're a level 50 blacksmith and you want to make the Dragon Scale Armor of Impervious Ubberness, you will need a bunch of extremely rare and expensive items.

However, that same tradesman could make the good, level appropriate, Finely Jointed High Quality Plate with realtively easily aquired materials.

Note, names pulled out of thin air by my psycho neighbor who throws things around his house when the beta servers go down and he "Has to play the ---Damned boring old game again".

[ October 28, 2004, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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Lewkowski
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Pixiest... you played SWG and are willing to give sony another chance? Wow your very forgiving. [Wink]
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WillBest
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lol, lew. Somebody needs to lock this thread. I am weak. All this talk is like priming the needle for a heroin addict.
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Jesse
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One of my best friends was a GM on SWG and all I can say is...put the blame on LucasArts where it belongs.

Worst game development deal ever, BTW, basically, Sony had to clear everything they did with LucasArts. Fixing a tiny game mechanics issue could involve a hundred phone calls.

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The Pixiest
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Lew, I played EQ for 2 years and enjoyed it thoroughly.

And I even LIKED SW:G. People complain about the trade skills but that was the best part. I'd go to my harvesters every morning (50 of them. Being guild leader has it's privs.) make tons of stims with my TK/Doc... Make tons of structures with my Artisan/Archectect... Give away extra resources to guildies... Fill up the guild hall with whatever no one would take... And run into people who said "Hey! I use your stims!" it was great.

The bugs were horrible. The fact the CSRs took sides in the galactic civil war was a problem (made my bf quit) but I was having too much fun to let either of those issues get in my way. My town on Naboo had over 100 people in it including two guilds other than the one I ran. I dominated PvP with my TK/Doc and I had a Jedi. And it was that last thing that did me in.

Jedi leveling at the time involved soloing. If anyone saw you use a force power or even have your light sabre out, you'd show up on bounty hunter terminals... So I neglected my guild, my town, my customers and even the town next door full of imperials who I regularly farmed... Just to level this stupid jedi. =( And it was a much longer grind than any other class of course. As it should be. But it was boring and lonely.

They fixed it now, I hear, but it's too late. My guild broke up, my town fell apart, my hospital (St Anyea's Infermary for the Terminally On Fire) has rotted by now. My business, factories, harvesters and all the resources and inventory in them have rotted away. I'd have nothing left but my millions of credits and whatever I was carrying on me and in my bank.

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Lewkowski
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EQ was fun. Well back then it was. Pre-Kunark was the greatest. Lguk IMO was the best zone ever. And then they made it possible to level your entire life in outdoor zones. Killed the game for me, just wasn't the same enviorment with people.

SWG was unfinished when it was released. Frankly I'm offended when a game comes out and its not ready. I expect better.

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The Pixiest
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Kunark was a blessing in that it got rid of people camping single spawns in the halls of lower guk. Waiting 20 minutes to split the xp of a single spawn among 6 people wasn't fun.

And while Live side was my favorite zone in the game at the time, it doesn't hold a candle to Sebilis. You wanna gib yourself some frogs there's nothing like Seb. I useda tell the tanks and the healers to go to the bathroom now cuz once I started pulling we weren't stopping and for the next several hours I kept a mezed mob on deck for the tanks to switch to as soon as the current one died. Then of course, I hit 60 (max level at the time) and got bored. I never really cared for the 6 hour-80 person raids.

Which is another reason I'm looking forward to EQ2. 24 person raids will be much more managable. I just hope I can kill some froggies without going evil =) (Frogloks are a player race if you can believe that.)

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Lewkowski
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Overcrowding in Lguk wasn't too bad.... I guess it depended on what server and time you played.

I loved the layout, and there were so many camps. Unfourantly as time progressed the items started... well being worthless. Frenzy was a fun camp. Non stop pulling made for great exp and the chance to get a nice 10k item was always great.

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WillBest
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Ah seb... AoE exping. Quickest leveling I ever did. 80 frogies dead at a time.

That was almost as much fun as killing all of Unrest at the same time by myself. No mobs in the whole zone for 12 or 18 minutes, whatever the timer was.

I agree Kunark was good for the game. It only slightly unbalanced the classes and it thined out the zones. Things started getting really ugly with Velious, and really bad with Luclin.

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WillBest
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lguk and sol b were horrid before kunark on the Rathe. You had to sit at the zone line waiting for a slot to open up. It was as bad as velk's after people moved there. You could walk the whole undead side without fear of seeing a mob.

Yeah, the old world stuff became crap. Except for a couple things that dropped off the two dragons, and the jboots it had nothing. I was in guk with a necro friend and we were helping to power level some guild twinks. We gave the yak to his pet. The newer people didn't think anything of it, but us old folks found some irony in it, because it was so highly sought after way back when.

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Jon Camp
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Pixiest -- Out of curiosity, which server did you play SWG on?
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The Pixiest
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I was Anyea Eoishina <ASH> on Chilastra
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Jesse
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I spent 4 months farming to buy my first Yak [Smile]

Now, people mock my BoC. Talk about mudflation.

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