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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Kerry, the authentic Bo Sox fan :rolleyes: (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Kerry, the authentic Bo Sox fan :rolleyes:
Daruma28
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The Boston Red Sox newest bandwagon fan, John Kerry, would love to have you believe he has been a fan for ages:

quote:

"I was 30 yards away from Billy Buckner in that famous Shea Stadium game in ’86," Mr. Kerry said in an interview with ESPN.com, referring to the infamous error that lost game six of the World Series for Boston that year. "So I’ve been there in the heartbreaks." Mr. Kerry has also made this claim on the stump. "I was about 30 yards away from Billy Buckner when that ball wiggled away," he told a crowd of supporters in Lebanon, N.H. "I had cracked a bottle of Champagne, was jumping up and down prematurely. Nobody should celebrate prematurely. This race is really open."

It’s only slightly odd to think of Mr. Kerry bouncing on the bleachers with his uncorked Dom Perignon - perhaps beckoning the hot dog vendor to bring him a baguette and foie gras. But it didn’t happen. Mr. Kerry wasn’t even there. On the night of game six, Mr. Kerry was at a banquet in South Boston sponsored by the Massachusetts Latino Democratic Committee. An anti-Kerry group of sports enthusiasts, Football Fans for Truth, unearthed a 1986 Boston Globe article establishing that Mr. Kerry attended the banquet, fittingly enough, with Governor Dukakis.

Another, in a long line of examples where Kerry has "leveled" with the American people as he’s promised he’d always do.

I don’t know about you, but this hits me as a form of arrogance and ignorance, not to mention lying. The arrogance is that he thinks he can get away with this sort of lie. The ignorance is that he doesn’t yet understand he can’t.

At least Curt Schilling has him figured out.

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Lewkowski
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Why the hell does Kerry(like Gore before him) have to lie about really really stupid issues like this? Seriously what the hell?
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WillBest
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Well he could be 30 yards away. That is 90 ft after all. It could have been 60 ft. to the TV cammera, and then 30ft from the TV to Kerry at the banquet. It would explain the Dom Perignon, at any rate.
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Everard
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"The Boston Red Sox newest bandwagon fan, John Kerry, would love to have you believe he has been a fan for ages"

He was at game seven in 1986...

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velcro
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He was at game 6 too.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1909344


quote:
Why the hell does Kerry(like Gore before him) have to lie about really really stupid issues like this? Seriously what the hell?
So what else did he lie about? What exactly did Al Gore lie about? Not the internet thing, not the love story thing. He made a mistake about which time he was in a helicopter with the FEMA administrator, that is about the closest thing. And don't even get me started about Bush's relationship with the truth. For little things, "It was a wrinkle in the shirt", "My dad spent the night before the debates looking for my daughters bunny". I can't prove that he knew the aluminum tubes were no proof of nuclear weapons, but if he didn't know, it's just as bad as lying.

So, Lewkowski, get your facts straight before you go gushing about how big a liar someone is. That is how we do it on Ornery. Or at least we are supposed to.

Daruma, I won't even ask you to retract it.

[edited because I blamed Lewkowski for the initial post]

[ October 29, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: velcro ]

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Daruma28
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From the article you linked to:
quote:
Sen. John Kerry did attend both a political banquet in Boston and Game 6 of the 1986 World Series in New York on the same night 18 years ago, according to the Democratic presidential candidate's senior campaign advisor.
Like what do we expect the senior campaign advisor to say? And this campaign has SUCH a record of honesty!

Hey, if I see incontrevertible proof (like an actual picture of Kerry at the game) I'll happily retract and admit to being wrong.

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Everard
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See, I'd say it requires incontrevertible proof to accuse someone of lying... which you don't have. You have that he attended a banquet. Game 6 ended fairly late at night... what time was the banquet? What time was Kerry seen there? Did he leave early? Was he at the game for the 10th inning?

You need to answer those questions before accusing him of lying.

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Daruma28
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Like you and the rest of the ABB/left have done with Bush these past four years? lol

OK, maybe I am wrong. Maybe he did make it to game 6 and I was just reacting to the Football Fans for truth jumping to conclusions.

It will take more than a single statement from ANY campaign advisor from either campaign to convince me I'm completely wrong.

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velcro
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Daruma,

Name a specific case where the campaign lied. Not spin, e.g. calling a smaller increase a cut, but a lie.

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DonaldD
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But Daruma (you had to know this was coming) you are continuously jumping to these conclusions about Kerry, based on nothing more than your distrust for the man. As best as I can tell, your distrust for the man may sprout from your singular ability to believe bad things about him.

Fresher 'cause more people eat them? Or more people eat them 'cause they're fresher?

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Daruma28
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Wait a minute....

quote:
"Sen. Kerry attended a public event in [Massachusetts] in the early evening and hopped a shuttle flight from Boston to NYC. [Kerry] got to Shea with the game in progress," Michael Meehan, Kerry's senior campaign advisor, wrote to ESPN.com in an e-mail.
That must have been a time travelling shuttle flight from Boston to NYC...because that game was a DAY game.

Maybe this was the world series before he spent x-mas in Campbodia?

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Everard
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Umm, Daruma... find me where I've said Bush has lied. And no, it doesn't count if you can find an instance where I say that people believe Bush has lied, because thats not me saying he has lied.

When you can't, I expect an apology.

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Everard
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"That must have been a time travelling shuttle flight from Boston to NYC...because that game was a DAY game."

Wrong yet again.

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/postseason/mlb_ws_recaps.jsp?feature=1986

You will note that all games were night games, just like this year. You will also note that is an official site of MLB.

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Daruma28
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You got me Ev. I eat my humble pie. It looks like it was indeed a night time game.

But their is still no incontrovertible proof that Kerry was their, and I don't believe him when he says he's a lifetime Bo Sox fan when he also says things like his favorite Bo Sox player was Eddie Yost? His current favorite is Manny Ortiz?

OK Donald, again I am pessimistic about the veracity of Kerry's statements (he's got such a great track record of credible 'seared' memories he likes to recall)...but I still find his supposed lifetime fanaticism for the Red Sox about as credible as Hillary's love for the Yankees. [Roll Eyes]

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Lobo
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"But Daruma (you had to know this was coming) you are continuously jumping to these conclusions about Kerry, based on nothing more than your distrust for the man."

Kind of like Kerry jumping to conclusions about AL KAAKAA?

I don't think that I want either Daruma or Kerry or anyone else that jumps to these kind of conclusions without though to be president, so I will vote for Bush. Please join me.

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Redskullvw
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For the record, I do not think Kerry would knowingly tell a lie intentionally. If he got where he was mixed up during a sporting even big deal. If he claims to be a big fan of a sports team so be it. That it happens to be his hometown team, so much the better.

In the grand scheme of things it makes absolutely no difference if he is a fan or not or what game he went to or didn't go to. But if we are collectively giving him a pass on his sworn testimony to congress in which he went down the war crime primrose path 20 years ago, we have to give him a pass on an interview with a sports analysts.

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maniacal_engineer
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he said he had never even heard of Bo Sox...
Oh wait... That was Botox [Big Grin]
sorry

Maybe he was really running a marathon at lambert field, but can't remember the time...

Sorry again. It is fun to watch him try to be a regular guy though - like having lobster after ostensibly stopping at McDonalds.

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ben5
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Oh, I guess I'll vote for bush now that I find out that kerry said manny ortiz ! [Roll Eyes]
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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Hey, if I see incontrevertible proof (like an actual picture of Kerry at the game) I'll happily retract and admit to being wrong.
Yes, but then you will post a bunch of other stuff about awful things Kerry has supposedly done, with little to no effort made to verify. Its not about scoring points off each other, its about whether or not other posters consider you credible. Msquared, Letterip and FIJC are all, in my mind, very credible, even though my politics are very different from theirs. It makes me tend to accept their facts, if not their analyses. My impression of you, however, is that you will print anything negative about Kerry, whether it is true or not, this thread having two great examples. THIS is why people like Ev respond with incredulity. Its not even an ideological debate, its in the mentality of "my team, your team", as though politics were football. People who really believe the mantra that "people of goodwill can disagree" are the ones who make this site worth spending time at. Fortunately, there are many.
Adam

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The Drake
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Two things on Kerry being a Sox fan. First, it would be understandable if he had more important things to do than to follow the current Red Sox season, so I don't think that the fact that he said "Manny Ortez", which he self corrected moments after saying it (while still getting the pronunciation wrong), carries much weight.

Of much greater import is the following quote:

"At the fundraiser, Kerry reflected on his reborn self. He praised the triple victories of the Jets, Giants and Yankees and said: 'I came here to bask in your glory, came here to grab onto that winning streak.'" (Washington Post, 9/22/04)

No true Red Sox fan could ever utter such words.

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velcro
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Still waiting for REAL Kerry lies, or Al Gore lies for that matter.
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Everard
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"OK Donald, again I am pessimistic about the veracity of Kerry's statements (he's got such a great track record of credible 'seared' memories he likes to recall)...but I still find his supposed lifetime fanaticism for the Red Sox about as credible as Hillary's love for the Yankees. "

"But their is still no incontrovertible proof that Kerry was their,"

So, you would argue then, that its perfectly legitimate for me to say that, for example, Bush lied about his vietnam service, weapons of mass destruction, Iraq being an imminent threat, Iraq supporting terrorists who hate the united states, that tax cuts help the economy, or really almost any of his statements? because there's no incontrovertable proof that any of those...and I'm pessimistic about his being forthright with the american people (since he won't give us a straight answer to ANY tough question). By your line of reasoning, its perfectly legitimate for me to call Bush a liar, so you wouldn't object if I took any statement he made that there isn't incontrovertable proof for, and said he's lying about it?

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Haggis
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Wow, pair this thread with the Bush "bulge" thread and we've got some potential wedge issues here. [Roll Eyes]
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Adam Lassek
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Hmm, was he or was he not at a particular baseball game eighteen years ago?

I'm no fan of John Kerry but I REALLY don't give a crap.

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The Drake
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Adam,

Then clearly you are not a Sox fan. No false politicans who claim to be of Red Sox Nation must EVER ascend to power!

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velcro
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Still waiting for REAL Kerry lies, or Al Gore lies for that matter.
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Lewkowski
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January suprise? Yeah thats a lie.
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Ivan
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quote:
Originally posted by Haggis:
Wow, pair this thread with the Bush "bulge" thread and we've got some potential wedge issues here. [Roll Eyes]

[Big Grin]
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aupton15
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Not to defend the man too much on an issue of NO importance, but I bet he is a big Sox fan. He's from the right region, and if what I've heard from the sports forum is true, you can't help but be a fan up there, even with the years of torture it brings. I doubt he's as interested in the Red Sox as he is in his political career, but that might be more a shortcoming of the rest of the fans rather than the Senator. I think what I find most disturbing is the EFFORT being put forth by people to catch him in a lie. As though differences with his policy are not enough a reason to disagree with him, he must also be of poor character in order not to vote for him??????? Why not just say you disagree with his history of defense cuts, or overspending, or social issues, or anything of substance and leave this BS out of it?
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The Drake
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aupton15,

I only posted here as a Sox fan, not to argue against Kerry in general about lies or anything else. I think some of the other visitors and posters might have been looking for a little break. Does it TRULY have any impact on my vote?

Not really. But it is an entertaining diversion for a while.

Personally, I think it is silly to catch politicians in a lie, because it's obvious that they all have to lie to gain office. Now, you can argue about the relative weight of lies under oath, lies in the form of campaign promises, and lies in their confidence of victory. But only "lying liars" get to be President, which is a shame.

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canadian
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You know, his own constituency has kept him around for all these years...he can't be as bumbling, incompetent and morally dead as some would like to say he is....
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SpencerHR
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I'll tell you something Kerry lied about. He lied by saying that Bush never met with the Congressional Black Caucus, just in the last debate. He had to have known he did, or even if he didn't, it was a terribly irresponsible thing to say. Either way, the result was to try to get the minority vote riled up and think that Bush is a racist. Yes, I think that's a lie.
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Rockeye
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Good god, if Kerry is or isn't a real Boston Red Socks fan is the biggest worry we have about him then what a pitiful contest this election really is. I for one would like to hear J.F. Kerry just for once, and for more than an 8-second CNN sound byte talk about his record of achievments during his long, long, US Senate tenancy.

What else would anyone expect a long-time Massachusets politician to say, that he was rooting for the Yankees? That just goes with the territory.

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Adam Lassek
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quote:
Personally, I think it is silly to catch politicians in a lie, because it's obvious that they all have to lie to gain office.
I would say, it makes it all the more important we call them on it. This attitude really makes me sick.
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Rockeye
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Unfortunately, according to my unscientific polling (everyone I know) the vast majority of people believe politicians are intrinsically dishonest people who will say whatever it takes to help get themselves elected. They say that because in our mutual experiences, that's just what we've seen. "I am not a crook." "I didn't inhale." "I did not have sex with that woman." "I do not recall." "What do you mean by the word "is?"" "I don't own a SUV. My family owns them." yadda yadda. With the evidence of political perfidy before my eyes, how can I pretend not to see it?

What should make us sick is that we expect so little responsibility from our politicians when they are granted such vast authority. Modern politicians have something in common. They can fall into a stinking cesspool of turds and crawl out of it with a clean, freshly-pressed suit smelling of roses. Nothing seems to stick to them. Our expectations are so low that even perjury gets a free pass. Most of us seem only to demand personal responsibility from the opposing policial parties. The generic 'we' are responsible for this state of affairs, and until we begin to hold those whose cause we believe in to the same standards that we hold those we oppose, nothing will change except for the worse.

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aupton15
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Good post Rockeye. I think a big part of the problem is that ambition is so important in politics. If you don't aspire to be "somebody" then there is no reason to put up with the negative ads and potential damage to your personal character and even your family. That ambition can lead some to fudge the details in order to present themselves better. Eventually "the details" can be just about anything, as long as the result makes them look better. Unfortunately, I think the only solution to this is to get people who don't naturally have this strong ambition, and convince them that they are needed to run our government in an ethical and responsible manner...hold on a second, I think some farm animal is flying outside my window.
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Richard Dey
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"I did not have sex with that woman" either [Big Grin] !
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SpencerHR
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Does anyone from the "Kerry cannot tell a lie" camp going to comment on the "Bush has never met with the Congressional Black Caucus" statement?
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canadian
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Oops.

Actually, I'll try a Repub technique:

What the Senator meant to say was that while George Bush met with the Congressional Black Caucus, he certainly didn't meet with them in the past six weeks. I mean, we're talking about a man who wants to get re-elcted as President of the United States and he can't even meet more than once with an organization that represents the major minority in this country? This denigrates our troops.

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SpencerHR
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Here's the exact wording of the accusation.

quote:
Now, let me just share something. This president is the first president ever, I think, not to meet with the NAACP. This is a president who hasn't met with the Black Congressional Caucus. This is a president who has not met with the civil rights leadership of our country.
The "first president ever" part sure seems like it is referring to the whole term. I can't imagine him saying Bush was the "first president ever to not meet with the NAACP in the last two months of his term."
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