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Author Topic: New Bin Laden tape!
Lewkowski
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Woah.... is this going to help or hurt Bush?
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Wayward Son
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I dunno--who did he endorse? [Big Grin]
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Lewkowski
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They don't have a translation yet... just started showing on Al Jeezera I understand.
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WillBest
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Well if OBL is smart it won't say "If you elect Bush we will attack". It should say "If you elect Kerry we won't attack"

The first statement will just make americans angry. "How dare he dictate what I ca do". Ever notice that Americans don't like to be told they can't do something? "You can't have a flu shot."; "what do you mean? I can't have one. Give it to me now!!"

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Anonymous24
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This is posted in the other thread as well.


quote:
Your security is not in the hands of (Democratic candidate John) Kerry or Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your own hands," bin Laden said.


"To the U.S. people, my talk is to you about the best way to avoid another disaster," he said. "I tell you: security is an important element of human life and free people do not give up their security."


"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have dignified souls, like those of the 19 blessed ones," he said, referring to the 19 hijackers.


"We fought you because we are free .. and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20041029/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bin_laden_tape
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Daruma28
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Talk about the ultimate October surprise...........

I thought he was supposed to be captured and Bush was going to bring him out in chains for the world to see?

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Shane Roe
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An October surprise from bin Laden huh? Trying the old "we got Spain to roll over" routine with the good ole U.S. of A, huh? It'll backfire on him.

Shane

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Daruma28
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Interesting quote here from the tape:

"It never occurred to us that the commander in chief of the country (Bush) would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to face those horrors alone ... because he thought listening to a child discussing her goats was more important," bin Laden said, referring to Bush's visit to a school when the attack occurred."

Sound familiar?

Perhaps a Kerry campaign talking point memo?

{Kerry's Spokesperson Stephanie Cutter}
quote:
Cutter sought to turn the argument over presidential readiness back on the White House. "Mr. McClellan needs to understand that John Kerry is not the type of leader who will sit and read 'My Pet Goat' to a group of second graders while America is under attack," she said.
Wonder if Bin laden saw Farenheit 9/11? Sounds like it.....
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canadian
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I'm sorry, but that is too funny, "discussing her goats"...I wonder if in his mind, Bush was in the hills talking about goats with a peasant girl...
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witless chum
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Or maybe that's just what he wants you to think Shane!!!

For me, if Osama actually prefers Kerry, I'm glad. Because I think it means he's totally divorced from reality and thus a less dangerous enemy.

As to the story, no reference to current events, though. Currentist is Kerry being the nominee which was what March, that was sewn up by?

I guess he could have recorded it longer ago and just did a version where he said each challenger's name. Not too likely, but I'd pay big money to see the version where he says "Kucinich."

I do hope he's suffering terribly from gout or something.

How damn creepy is it that I think I've made that Sweden argument? Not just the argument, but actually said 'Sweden'. A bit creepy, I think.

Dan

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Swami
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Benjamin Franklin, late 18th century: They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither.

Osama bin Laden, early 21st century: I tell you: security is an important element of human life and free people do not give up their security.

I just thought it would be fun to see these quotes juxtaposed. Thank's for reading.

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JLMyers
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If Kerry is smart, he will point out that Bush vowed to catch and kill Bin Laden ("he can run, but he can't hide, heh, heh." Sound familiar) and the new video is just more proof that he has failed to do that, just as he has failed us in so many other ways.

Kerry should also vow to catch and kill Bin Laden, and then do it! Which I believe he can. After all, he has actually lead troops in battle.

JL/KE

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hywer
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Edited for clarity!

What difference does it make if our whichever candidate has led troops into battle? He'll be sitting in a very familiar-looking office if he ever gave that command, not on the ground with the troops--that'll be the field commanders, and he'd better be listening to them anyway...

If either of these candidates can catch and kill bin Ladin, good. But bin Ladin isn't the only problem, especially now that we're in Iraq. Granted, though, as long as he's active I won't be very comfortable...

I like how bin Laden tries to be rational. The rest of this paragraph is dumb.

witless chum: Err... maybe bin Ladin's been reading this board?

my apologies to all. this is definitely not the same post!

[ October 29, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: hywer ]

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JLMyers
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I can't believe that needs explanation, but: It makes a difference that Kerry has been in actual combat and shown leadership and bravery, therefore, it is rational to surmise that he will have a better chance of succeeding, (in Iraq and in finding Bin Laden) where Bush has failed.

And I think it is obvious that as an American I hate Bin Laden, but I see no reason to assume that he is irrational. From his point of view he is behaving perfectly rational.

JL/KE

[ October 29, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: JLMyers ]

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hywer
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oops. sorry JL. too slow on my part.

But his point of view is irrational. Of course, I'm terribly biased our way... it has a little bit of merit, but not enough. That's what I mean by irrational.

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WillBest
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JLMyers you seem to think the president does more than sit down with a room full of generals who give him 2-3 options, and for him to select one.

There were 18 minutes of the tape, only a few minutes were aired. They haven't been released to the public.

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Hannibal
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well i am guessing that the israeli media only brought things concerning israel from his tape, but he says there that he attaked america on the 9/11 because of israel's actions, then he mentioned events showing israeli brutality
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David Ricardo
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Here are the respective candidates' responses to the bin Laden tape:

http://blog.johnkerry.com/blog/archives/003723.html#003723

quote:
John Kerry: In response to this tape from Osama bin Laden, let me make it clear, crystal clear. As Americans, we are absolutely united in our determination to hunt down and destroy Osama bin Laden and the terrorists. They are barbarians. And I will stop at absolutely nothing to hunt down, capture or kill the terrorists wherever they are, whatever it takes. Period.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/10/20041029-18.html

quote:
George W. Bush: Earlier today I was informed of the tape that is now being analyzed by America's intelligence community. Let me make this very clear: Americans will not be intimidated or influenced by an enemy of our country. I'm sure Senator Kerry agrees with this. I also want to say to the American people that we're at war with these terrorists and I am confident that we will prevail.
Who do you think will be tougher on the Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda threat?

Hands-down, John Kerry.

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Shane Roe
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quote:
Originally posted by David Ricardo:
Who do you think will be tougher on the Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda threat?

Hands-down, John Kerry.

If you go by words, sure, Kerry's the one. But words have never meant anything unless they were backed up by action. George Bush may not have ever been a great speaker, but all evidence suggests that he's been fast-acting and ly to al-queda and the Taliban--and also to the Hussein's. I don't think you can question that. Talking a big game doesn't mean walking one.

Shane

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Shane Roe
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Back to the original post: Here's the way I see it. Bin Laden wanted badly to do a horrendous attack on America prior to the elections, just like he did in Spain prior to theirs. However, the current administration has been doing a great job in curtailing terrorist activities on American soil, thus bin-Laden was reduced to producing a tape, along with the other tape a few days ago. With that, Bush should win, hands down. But then, he could become the victim of his own success--no recent attacks, not fresh in the minds of the citizens, not re-elected. Osama may have just pushed the re-elect Bush button.

Shane

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David Ricardo
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If I were bin Laden, of course I would press the re-elect Bush button also.

Bush has been the best thing that has ever happened to bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.

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Hannibal
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yes but more then three years have passed and Bush only captured the little sardines, not a single shark was captured or killed yet.

OBL and his lackies dont give a damn about the petty terrorists america has captured.

america needs to sharpen its intelligence capabilities and capture the big bosses. this will destablize AQ and maybe even cause some gang war by OBL's heirs

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pseudoCode
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Here's my analysis of the tape:

OBL for Kerry '04!

[Razz]

Seriously.. they're trying to influence the election. The attack is probably coming very soon....

Just remember to not leave a single shred for the authorities after you tear them to pieces. [Razz]

[ November 01, 2004, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: pseudoCode ]

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witless chum
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After thinking about this a bit over the weekend, to distract myself from losses by Michigan State and the Lions to two different evil empires perhaps, I'm thinking we're being self-centered in our analysis.

Bin Laden wants to be the mass leader of the Muslim world. I think he's talking to them, not to us. It also explains the timing, whoever wins, Bin Laden will tell the Muslim world 'He won because I willed it.' Its an awful cheap way to try to make some hay. No downside for him, really.

Dan

Oh, and aren't the Palestinians the most-whined about, least acted about people in the history of the world?

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witless chum
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After thinking about this a bit over the weekend, to distract myself from losses by Michigan State and the Lions to two different evil empires perhaps, I'm thinking we're being self-centered in our analysis.

Bin Laden wants to be the mass leader of the Muslim world. I think he's talking to them, not to us. It also explains the timing, whoever wins, Bin Laden will tell the Muslim world 'He won because I willed it.' Its an awful cheap way to try to make some hay. No downside for him, really.

Dan

Oh, and aren't the Palestinians the most-whined about, least acted about people in the history of the world?

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Gary
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quote:
Originally posted by David Ricardo:
Here are the respective candidates' responses to the bin Laden tape:

... snipped to edit length ... [Wink]

Who do you think will be tougher on the Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda threat?

Hands-down, John Kerry.

And how did these guys craft those respsonses? I think it tells us a lot about them. Kerry decided his beliefs by taking a poll. Kerry had no idea what his position would be until he could find out what everyone thought he should say. No wonder the guy flip flops so much, he depends on polling samples to determine core beliefs.

Hands down John Kerry indeed - it actually depends on how many hands go up when the question is asked.

Now about that tape ...

Want know what's really explosive about it? MEMRI has the full translation and it reveals that the video was calling for the defeat of George W. Bush and offering a pact of protection (dhimmitude) to US states that don’t vote for Bush!
quote:
In a section of his speech in which he harshly criticized George W. Bush, bin Laden stated: “Any U.S. state that does not toy with our security automatically guarantees its own security.”

The Islamist website Al-Qal’a explained what this sentence meant: “This message was a warning to every U.S. state separately. When he [Osama Bin Laden] said, ‘Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,’ it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us, and we will consider it our enemy, and any state that will vote against Bush has chosen to make peace with us, and we will not characterize it as an enemy.

There you have, the official offer to become a dhimmi subservient to the bin Laden caliphate. This now sets up every state that vote Kerry tomorrow to be portrayed as having accepted the offer.

Just in case we don't get it, The Islamist website Al-Qal’a explained what this sentence meant:
quote:
‘Every state will be determining its own security, and will be responsible for its choice,’ it means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president has chosen to fight us, and we will consider it our enemy, and any state that will vote against Bush has chosen to make peace with us, and we will not characterize it as an enemy. By this characterization, Sheikh Osama wants to drive a wedge in the American body, to weaken it, and he wants to divide the American people itself between enemies of Islam and the Muslims, and those who fight for us, so that he doesn’t treat all American people as if they’re the same. This letter will have great implications inside the American society, part of which are connected to the American elections, and part of which are connected to what will come after the elections.
The threat is clear, any red state after this election is potentially going to be attacked. The rest will be considered dhimmis.

The upside of this message is that bin Laden is trying to influence the election through a mailed in threat instead of an actual terrorist attack a la' Spain. Any guesses as to why that is? Could it be because, hands down, Bush has waged an effective war on terrorism and severly curtailed Al Queda's terrorist activities? Maybe Kerry should run another poll and find out ...

[ November 01, 2004, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Gary ]

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pseudoCode
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Update:

Apparently the initial translation was off. According to This Story , the literal translation comes down to this:

quote:

The respected Middle East Media Research Institute, which monitors and translates Arabic media and Internet sites, said initial translations of a key portion of bin Laden's video rant to the American people Friday night missed an ostentatious bid by the Saudi-born terror master to divide American voters and tilt the election towards Democratic challenger John Kerry.

MEMRI said radical Islamist commentators monitored over the Internet this past weekend also interpreted the key passage of bin Laden's diatribe to mean that any U.S. state that votes to elect Bush on Tuesday will be considered an "enemy" and any state that votes for Kerry has "chosen to make peace with us."

...

Yigal Carmon, president of MEMRI, said bin Laden used the Arabic term "ay-wilaya" to refer to a "state" in that sentence.

That term "specifically refers to an American state, like Tennessee," Carmon said, adding that if bin Laden were referring to a "country" he would have used the Arabic word "dawla."

MEMRI also translated an analysis of bin Laden's statement from the Islamist Web site al-Qal'a, well known for posting al-Qaeda messages, which agreed that bin Laden's use of the word "ay-wilaya" was meant as a "warning to every U.S state separately."

"It means that any U.S. state that will choose to vote for the white thug Bush as president, it means that it chose to fight us and we will consider it an enemy to us, and any state that will vote against Bush, it means that it chose to make peace with us and we will not characterize it as an enemy," the Web site said, according to MEMRI's translation.


'Nuff said. That is reason enough to vote for Bush in my book. Unfortunately, since I live in the people's republic of New York State, I'm pretty sure that Kerry's going to carry this state. I'd rather throw my lot in with the enemies of AQ, but my fellow NYS residents (probably only a very slim majority) are going to do what they usually do and re-elect Schumer the schmuck and our electoral votes will end up going to Kerry.

The problem is almost 1/2 the state's population resides in NYC or on Long Island - a bastion of socialisim and liberalisim. My only hope is that the residents of manhattan (~2 million or so) remember the fury and rage of 9/11/2001 and decide to go with the guy who will actually do something about it.

Less than 24 hours... then, let the games begin.

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Koner
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quote:
After all, he has actually lead troops in battle.

Yes, indeed John Kerry did lead troops in battle. And then when he got home, he turned his back on the ones still fighting. He lied to the Congress about war crimes commited by Americans, he attempted to broker peace (as a private citizen) with the Vietnamese in Paris, and he threw his (no wait those were someone elses) medals over the White House gate.

The difference between John Kerry and Jane Fonda was that Jane had the maturity and human decency to apologize to the Vietnam War Veterans for her actions in the late 60's and early 70's.

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Shane Roe
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quote:
Originally posted by David Ricardo:
If I were bin Laden, of course I would press the re-elect Bush button also.

Bush has been the best thing that has ever happened to bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.

Why?
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ben5
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I don't think bin laden gives a damn who wins the election. He can't influence the elections, he just wants people to think he can.
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Ivan
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quote:
Why?
Al Qaeda says people should hate America because we're imperialists who want to make war against Arab countries and take their oil.

So Bush decided we should invade Iraq. And send troops to guard the oil, but not the cities.

Yep.

EDIT:

Also, anyone who chooses who they're voting for based on what bin Laden said is capitulating. Either way the election turns out, he can spin it to say that he influenced us to choose who he wanted to be President. He can say he threatened us or that he used reverse psychology. Either way, its pointless to speculate on what he really wants. Don't vote based on what bin Laden says.

[ November 01, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Ivan ]

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Shane Roe
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quote:
Originally posted by Ivan:
Al Qaeda says people should hate America because we're imperialists who want to make war against Arab countries and take their oil.

So Bush decided we should invade Iraq. And send troops to guard the oil, but not the cities.

Yep.


Well, oil is the main export of Iraq, so how would they rebuild their financial infrastructure without it? Tell me, where have we stolen any of their oil? And answer me this, if our soldiers aren't in and around the cities, why do we keep hearing of them getting killed in and around the cities?

BTW, with or without OBL's comments, I'm voting for Bush.

Shane

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