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Author Topic: Kerry:preparing for a concession flip-flop?
ATW
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(API) BOSTON - The blogosphere is all abuzz with the latest twist on the 2004 election which everyone had assumed was decided.

Thousands of volunteer audio engineers listening to Kerry's alleged concession speech are convinced that Kerry never conceded at all.

Milo Green of BlogThis.com says, "Listening again to Kerry's speech, its clear that instead of saying 'I'm conceding' that he actually said 'I'm conceited'. It feels rather like a time warp back to the Clinton era of trying to figure out what the meaning of "is" is."

Constitutional experts are divided upon the implications of the matter. Apparently the founding document of our government states whoever win the election becomes president but doesn't address the question of concession of defeat.

Riley Hathaway, legal council for Citizens for the American Way, insists the election isn't technically over. "There's no provision for quiting early written into the constitution. If Kerry wants to take this opportunity to say that he's back in, there's no legal justification for keeping him out. Technically, the election is still ongoing until the last of the absentee and provisional ballots are counted in the last state and its Secretary of State certifies the vote."

The Kerry campaign has declined comment but election observers note the Kerry legal team is still present in a number of closely contested states.

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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Constitutional experts are divided upon the implications of the matter. Apparently the founding document of our government states whoever win the election becomes president but doesn't address the question of concession of defeat.

FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!! A tagteam president/vice-president rumble to decide. With that old "Star Trek" battle music blaring in the background.

Seriously, I don't see how Kerry could get "back in the saddle", as it were. And I strongly suspect that if it went to court, it would go to Bush.

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aupton15
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Even if Kerry managed to win this time, he would lose the support of any moderates or reluctant votes he may have received. I think Kerry is done, unless the vote comes back considerably different than it was initially reported. That seems highly unlikely.
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RickyB
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According to what I read, concession is not binding AT ALL. Ohio is still counting its ballots and as far as I understand, has yet to allocate its electors. That happens on the 13th, I think. If by then the miracle does happen and the lead in the state changes, Ohio's electors go to Kerry and he become president on January 20th.

Edited to add: I don't believe that will happen for a split second. But that, as far as I gather, is what would happen if it did.

[ November 05, 2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: RickyB ]

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DonaldD
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Ummm... this is just a joke. Can anyone really imagine Kerry saying "no, no, I never 'conceded' - what I said was 'I am conceited'...?

Especially since, as Ricky alludes, even if Kerry said "I concede - c-o-n-c-e-d-e. I am toast. I lost big time. I am so done. Thanks for your support" it wouldn't matter a whit; If he then went on to win Ohio, he would get those electors (unless they all decided to turn "faithless.")

There would be absolutely no point for him to try that. ATW, do you actually buy this? Unfortunately, it's hard to tell since you just throw up a quote (no link) and refrain from adding any value to the thread yourself.

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ATW
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I wrote the whole article myself just a few minutes ago. How can you say that I didn't add anything of value to the thread?
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
I wrote the whole article myself just a few minutes ago. How can you say that I didn't add anything of value to the thread?
ATW, entertainment mission accomplished!
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Omega M.
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Wow, you fooled me!
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Omega M.
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But I have no doubt that if Ohio winds up going to Kerry he'll take the presidency. Who wouldn't? I heard him say that "every vote will be counted." I bet he just wanted to calm people down for a little while after the election. Then again, he also said that there weren't enough votes outstanding for him to win.
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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
According to what I read, concession is not binding AT ALL. Ohio is still counting its ballots and as far as I understand, has yet to allocate its electors. That happens on the 13th, I think. If by then the miracle does happen and the lead in the state changes, Ohio's electors go to Kerry and he become president on January 20th.

Edited to add: I don't believe that will happen for a split second. But that, as far as I gather, is what would happen if it did.

Can someone educate me if I'm totally off on this, but wouldn't Ohio for Kerry put this at a 269/269 nightmare?

Edited to add: I'm quite aware the original post was a joke (glad that was confirmed), but I was just wondering on this one...

[ November 05, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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msquared
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I think Iowa went for Bush and that gave him something like 286 total. If he lost Ohio he would be back at 266 and Kerry would have enough to win.

msquared

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LadyKat
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No. Actually if Kerry had gotten Ohio it would have given him 272 and Bush 266.
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LadyKat
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Sorry, M^2 beat me to the punch.
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Kent
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Oh my, that was hilarious. Those who responded were even funnier. Hope Springs Eternal.
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DonaldD
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Well, I did say up front it was a joke - the only question I had was whether ATW was simple enough to have been taken in.

Unfortunately, the blogosphere really can be that stupid. And there are some here who are simple enough to post such crap and believe it... yes, even here at Ornery.

ATW, I now understand that you aren't quite as dumb as you at first seemed. You have certainly shown you are not trustworthy, though.

OrneryMod - do we really want to set a precedent of creating trollish, practical joke threads on Ornery? Where we have to re-read everything to be sure of the posters sincerity?

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Pete at Home
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I can't believe anyone took that transparent play on words seriously, let alone reporting it to the moderator as a troll. [Roll Eyes]

Since Ricky's straining at straws for hopes, here's another one, the perpetual hope of election losers that so far has never translated to a substantive difference in an election:

The electors could vote differently than they are assigned to vote.

Given the numbers of people switching parties both ways in this election, that's a better possibility in this election than it ever has been. But it's still, IMO, not very likely.

Maybe that's the magic of the electoral college -- to keep the self-deluded hanging on in hope, rather than arming for revolution in the streets.

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LoverOfJoy
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I think if Kerry ended up conceding and stood by that decision, Edwards would become president if Kerry got enough electoral votes. [Wink]
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DonaldD
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Missed the point, didn't ya Pete? [Roll Eyes]

First off, no one "reported it to the moderator" - if you notice, he's already seen it. I did, however point out that it infringes Ornery rules.

How?

Well, rule 2 is applicable, but more importantly, the general rules of conduct state "speculation about the motives of people posting here are not allowed." Threads like this not only encourage but require us to do so.

This is a "serious forum" - the last thing we need is some troll (this is the very definition of trolling) trying to score points by tricking others into taking him at face value.

As for "transparent play on words" - it's unfortunate, but even stupider and more transparent quotes with actual links have been put forward seriously by certain members. So it was not obvious whether a) ATW is too stupid to breathe, or b) ATW didn't actually believe the argument had merit, but was underhanded and mean-spirited enough to post it in order to slander Kerry.

Imagine for a moment if David Ricardo had authored and posted a similar missive about Bush...

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ATW
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C'mon, people aren't allowed to post jokes? Its not like I strung people along or anything. The first time someone showed a hint of understanding that it was a joke I came clean.

And I put plenty of clues in the article that it wasn't real.

1)API doesn't exist.
2)BlogThis.com doesn't exist.
3)Citizens for the American Way doesn't exist.
4)Used "council" instead of the proper word "counsel".
5)Used "technically" twice in the same paragraph which wouldn't make it past any decent editor.

That's a lot to pack into a little bitty "article".

Besides, Kerry never said "I'm conceding" in his concession speech in the first place. Even if he had, it was a long-winded speech which left no doubt at all that the speech is about Kerry was conceding rather than that he was conceited.

"Imagine for a moment if David Ricardo had authored and posted a similar missive about Bush."

I'd be laughing myself silly if he did a good job writing it.

But regardless, if anyone was deeply offended, I offer my apologies. I enjoy entertaining and being entertained by my friends. I had no intention of creating angst.


==========================================

(API) NEW YORK - At New York's Kennedy airport today, an individual, later discovered to be a public school teacher, was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square, a slide rule, and a calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney general John Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al Gebra movement.
He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction.

"Al Gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said. "They desire average solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of absolute value. They use secret code names like 'x'and 'y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'there are 3 sides to every triangle'."

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes."

[ November 06, 2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: ATW ]

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DonaldD
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Yes, you did string people along. In your clarification, you even admit it.

If you really didn't mean to string anyone along, you would have stated that it was a joke in the opening post. Alternatively, you would have clarified the thread's "jokeness" the first time you realized people didn't get that it was a joke.

But you didn't do that - you waited until someone pointed out the fraud. It's clear that you were trolling in order to embarass those that took the bait, as opposed to entertaining those that read the post.

Of course we are allowed to post jokes. But to claim you didn't string anyone along is disingenuous.

BTW apologizing, not for your actions but for how others "misunderstood" your actions, is an insult rather than an apology.

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Pete at Home
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DonaldD: First off, no one "reported it to the moderator"

Au Contraire -- you appealed directly to OM over this: "OrneryMod - do we really want to set a precedent of creating trollish, practical joke threads on Ornery? Where we have to re-read everything to be sure of the posters sincerity? "

DonalD:- if you notice, he's already seen it.

Notice where? You mean Msquared's statement? Msquared isn't OM anymore, as of months ago. And even when he was doing the OM gig, it was established protocol that you didn't address him as OM when he posted on a thread as Msquared. 2 totally different personas. So even if you had your facts right on who was playing OM, calling OM in on this would still have been totally out of line.

DonalD: I did, however point out that it infringes Ornery rules.

I think you're stretching those rules in order to infer a breakage. I also think you're wasting time, and being a sulky spoil-sport over nothing. Personally I think that it was so blatantly a farce that you should be the one to apologize for taking it seriously.

Go ahead and take the last word; I'm not going to drag this out any more. I'm done here.

[ November 06, 2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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ATW
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quote:
Originally posted by DonaldD:
Yes, you did string people along. In your clarification, you even admit it.

If you really didn't mean to string anyone along, you would have stated that it was a joke in the opening post. Alternatively, you would have clarified the thread's "jokeness" the first time you realized people didn't get that it was a joke.

But you didn't do that - you waited until someone pointed out the fraud. It's clear that you were trolling in order to embarass those that took the bait, as opposed to entertaining those that read the post.

Of course we are allowed to post jokes. But to claim you didn't string anyone along is disingenuous.


BTW apologizing, not for your actions but for how others "misunderstood" your actions, is an insult rather than an apology.

Rather full of yourself aren't you?

If that was an insult, I hope everyone took it in the spirit in which it was intended.

[Roll Eyes]

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canadian
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Al Gebra...wepaons of math instruction...brilliant!

lol

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