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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Bush: Media Darling (Page 2)

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KidA
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"I doubt you would have pegged Pullman as a religious conservative."

Well...certainly not now! Since we started this thread with Mr. Pullman, how appropriate that I came across this article written by the man himself, just a few days ago, on literature, theocracy, and President Bush.

You thought we had something to chew over before? Hoo boy. From the Guardian, no less. I'll summarize it for you: Bush=Khomeini.

Let 'er rip...tee hee...


http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1343733,00.html

[ November 09, 2004, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: KidA ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
For children's fantasy writer Philip Pullman, George W. Bush would make a perfect villain in his epic sagas of good and evil.

"He would fit right in," said the British author of the trilogy "His Dark Materials" which now looks set to follow in the cinematic footsteps of Harry Potter and The Lord of The Rings as the next blockbuster franchise.

Look, I don't hate capitalism, OK? So far all the other systems we've tried, on a large scale, are worse. Call me a romantic, or a purist, but it just pains me to see a man selling his soul, a woman selling her body, or an Novelist who is juxtaposed with Tolkien, treating the creation of his work like some sort of franchise.
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canadian
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Pete, have you read the books?
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Pete at Home
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Canadian, have you read my posts on this thread?
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canadian
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My question was not in earnest. I think before condemning a writer, you should read what he has written. Now, I know you say you are condemning his particular actions (as interpreted by yourself) but I have not heard you blasting the Tolkien estate or Rowling for allowing movies to be made of their novels.

You have taken an off-hand remark by an author (who at this point may regret his flipness) and turned it into some kind of statement on his general character, all he has ever done, and all he ever hopes to accomplish. It is strange that you are so passionate in your demonization of an author whom you have never even read.

Once you have, you will understand the context of his words a little more clearly, otherwise, I fear, you are doing battle with a figure of your own creation.

But really, that's all I have to say on the matter. You will do as you will, anyway.

(By the way, I read in another thread that you have read the History of the World series. I really enjoy them, too! In fact, The Age of Voltaire is on my desk right now.)

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Pete at Home
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The better writing he has produced, the more disgraceful his slur against his craft. I know Tom is a competent poet, therefore I take Tom's word that this guy has produced good writing, therefore I retracted my initial statement that Pullman was a hack, and said instead that Pullman is whoring his craft.

[ November 10, 2004, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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canadian
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"whoring his craft..."

So, any writer who allows movies to be made of their work is a whore?

That seems a bit small-minded to me, so I doubt very much that is your stance.

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jouissance
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Since Tolkien was dead when jackson came along, does that make his situtaion necrophilia? I mean when you are dead, you can't exactly 'allow' something to happen, but if Tolkien wanted to aviod franchise and thus 'whoring' he could have destroyed his work before he died, right?

[Embarrassed]

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Jesse
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Tokien wasn't opposed to movies being made of LOTR, he just wasn't happy with any of treatments presented to him.
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Ivan
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Apperantly there was a truly AWFUL animated version of the first book and some of the second that's out there.

OTOH, the animated version of The Hobbit was really quite good.

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jouissance
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i found the animated version entertaining in its own way. there is actually another animated version of return of the king done by the hobbit people that i though was pretty bad. i did like the hobbit version though.

i could actually envision a long mini series in 20 years of the entire series that could be more faithful to the books- i would likely enjoy that a great deal. i did not think jackson's version was lacking for its edits- i quickly bought into that he was offering a new version of the saga and did not expect what was in the book.

anyway- i do not think authors who allow franchises are inherently 'whoring' i think film is an excellent media to retell or tell anew stories origninally told in print. (and vice versa- Card's fiction treatment of the abyss is almost an excellent example (almost because i think the book came at the same time as the film, but the vision was originally cinematic (I think))) and a franchise need not be motivated by profit first- franchise was likely the term that started the 'whore calling'

or maybe that was just pete [Wink]

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ben5
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pete- you think a writers off hand political remark to be whoreing up his trade?
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Pete at Home
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quote:
"whoring his craft..."

So, any writer who allows movies to be made of their work is a whore?

That seems a bit small-minded to me, so I doubt very much that is your stance.

I agree, and that is NOT my position.

quote:
pete- you think a writers off hand political remark to be whoreing up his trade?
If he had made the "off-hand remark" to the press that he is available for certain sexual acts for 15 quid a bob, would you not interpret that as whoring his body?

Like I said, I have no problem with a skilled writer plying his TRADE to make money. If a skilled writer has to write cheap political tracts, that's his trade, not his craft. But when he brags his intent to turn his "epic sagas of good and evil" into cheap political tracts, *that*, to me, is whoring.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and called him a mere hack, at first. But then some of you came in and said that the books in question are incredibly well-written. If he's willing to turn something like that into a cheap political tract, then he's whoring.

And yes, if Christopher Tolkien had let his daddy's work be turned into a parable about 9-11, and had made Sauron look like Osama, and Saruman look like Jacques Chirac, then yeah, I'd be taking JRR's son to task for whoring his daddy's work. But he didn't, so I'm not.

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jouissance
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actually i was just down at the bird and baby downing a pint of 'bung misery' with Christopher and he said:

"daddy wrote his story about the corrupting influence of power and the danger of expanding technology and the destruction of nature- i was approached with a made for tv serial casting bush as saruman highlighting his ideas about drilling for oil in alaska and policy decisions like letting the tax deduction for hybrid vehicles expire while continuing to allow small businesses to deduct the cost of a hummer, but i trust that people are smart enough to see how the corrupting influence of power and abuse of the environment in daddy's stories are evident in modern american politics, so i decided against the project..."

while I do not approve of the dig at bush, I have to point out that christopher was not concerned about whoring, he was just trying to avoid being redundant.

[Roll Eyes]

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Van Aaron
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An update: According to The Times of London, New Line has announced that it is filming His Dark Materials without all the religious overtones. Since the whole story is basically a retelling for young adults of Paradise Lost, I find this rather perplexing. Pullman's agent says it's necessary in "the climate of Bush's America." As to whether it will compromise Pullman's vision, the Times quotes a previous interview with him:
quote:
In an interview with The Times last year, Pullman was asked whether turning his books into films would compromise his vision. "Why say yes when they come to you with large amounts of money? I can’t imagine why," he replied, laughing.
I may be coming around to Pete's view that this guy is whoring his craft.
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Van Aaron
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Here is Pullman's response. Seems the above quotation was taken blatantly out of context.
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JLMyers
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quote:
but don't insult a good literary work 'cause you don't like what the author said,
Good advice. If I went by what the author says, rather than how well he writes, I would never read OSC.

quote:
"The Christian right in America is the mirror image of the Islamic fundamentalists," he added.

If he isn't a hack then irresponsible statements like this should not be coming from him.

Jim,

One has nothing to do with the other. And to many people in the world GW is a villian.

Cansdian,

Well said.

Javelin,

Christians have killed for their religion for thousands of years, most recently abortion doctors. Now I don't think these nuts are representative of Christians, but neither are the terrorists representative of the vast number of Muslims.

Tolkien sucks. I've tried several times to read his books and I never can get through them. Of course, I think most Fantasy sucks, and I resent the fact that I have to dig through it to find real Science Fiction.

If Pullman sees Bush as an evil-doer, then using his craft to combat him makes him a CHAMPION not a whore.

Not too mention that all writers sell their work.

KE

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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by JLMyers:
Javelin,

Christians have killed for their religion for thousands of years, most recently abortion doctors. Now I don't think these nuts are representative of Christians, but neither are the terrorists representative of the vast number of Muslims.

KE

Is this referencing this post?

quote:
I guess I get all weirded out when people use the word "fundamentalist" versus "extremist". After all, a "fundamentalist" is just someone who prefers to focus on something's "fundamental parts", not someone who twists the parts into an excuse to go murder people. That's why "extremists" tend to fit my understanding of these people better.
'Cause if it is, I'm confused. Can you explain? Just wondering if I need to clarify my statement or something.
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JLMyers
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No, I think I misuderstood you. I think we agree that fundamentalist doesn't mean terrorist.

KE

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