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Author Topic: Who might replace Cheney if he steps down?
Rockeye
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In the 2008 presidential race, VP Cheney would be, I think, an unelectable candidate. If his latest heart/health issues are indeed a precurser to his stepping down as vice president in favor of someone else, who might it be in favor of? For some time I've thought that if Bush were to win reelection Cheney might not serve out the term in favor of someone who stood a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election. I know how the succession works if he dies and someone needs to move into the job immediatly. What I'm not sure about is whether or not the president can nominate someone else for the job himself outside the normal line of succession.

If it is possible for Bush & Co. to select someone, who would it be? I have my own idea who would be a good person, but what do you think; and why?

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towellman
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Frist may be an obvious choice, since he's already gunning for '08.

I think that it may be more the President's style to grab a lesser known senator or governor that he (or his advisors) see as an idealogical fit that could win an election. 3 years as VP would get his name out there and make him the dominant cantidate in the primaries. At least if it were me, that's what I'd do.

Actually, a republican version of frmr. Sen. Edwards would be perfect. A handsome young Senator that's smarter than Dan Quayle who's sort of a political neophyte. That way he'd turn to all of Bush's advisors for input and they'd get even more influence and power. Sort of like a council of Regents for a king who hasn't come of age.

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Pete at Home
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Bush & Co. have probably agreed to annoint McCain for 2008. This is the only explanation I can come up for explaining his sudden & remarkable loyalty to the Republican party. According to conventional wisdom, McCain could have had the vice presidency in a bag had he accepted Kerry's offer. (The conventional wisdom is wrong, of course, failing to take ssm into account.)

If Cheney had to step down for health reasons, might be a good thing to bring McCain into the spot, if only to get him out of the senate [Big Grin]

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Everard
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If McCain had been kerry's running mate, it would have been a landslide for Kerry, I think... McCain may be the most respected politician in the country, right now. While he's an extreme conservative, people trust him. If one looks at the breakdown of why people voted the way they did, Bush won in large part because people felt they could trust him to keep them safe. McCain is far more trusted the Bush is, especially among the Conservative wing of the Republican party. I think that, in particular, Arizona, Ohio, and perhaps West Virginia, would all have swung to Kerry.

That said, I strongly doubt that Bush would choose McCain as a VP, if he indeed has the power to do that, as McCain has been an outspoken critic of some of the central elements of Bush's presidency. I don't think, being the sort of man he seems to be, that McCain would accept a position which would associate him too closely with various actions that this administration is likely to take.

I suspect that a governor would be more willing to accept a position with the administration, and I suspect Bush and his advisors would prefer someone from the upper midwest.

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Lewkowski
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Hmmm my money is on Frist.

McCain would be an interesting president.

I still have dreams of Condi or Colin Powell getting the VP. Would make all the liberals go bat crazy.

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Kilthmal
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If they can't find anyone else, I'll take the job. [Big Grin]
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TCB
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Lewkoski said:
quote:
I still have dreams of Condi or Colin Powell getting the VP. Would make all the liberals go bat crazy.
Really? I believe you that most liberals don't like Rice, but I always thought they liked Powell. I see him as the most moderate, reasonable person in Bush's administration.
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JoshuaD
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
While he's an extreme conservative, people trust him.

McCain's an extreme conservative? I realized after you said this that I'm not too familiar with his voting record, but he's always struck me as a moderate.
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Sancselfieme
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Dr. Rice should be kept as far from power as possible, I shudder to think of her as Pres. or VP.
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ATW
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"McCain is far more trusted the Bush is, especially among the Conservative wing of the Republican party."

ROFLMAO


Mccain is an outright enemy of both the tax cut conservatives and the religious right. He hasn't done anything to endear himself to the budget-balancer conservatives either. So what variety of conservative is it among whom you perceive him to be trusted? (boggles)


If Bush chose a senator, it'd be from a state with a republican governor who could appoint the replacement.

I'd really expect him to try to reach outside the ranks of currently elected officials and instead pick someone who'd be enthused at promoting Bush's tax and social security agenda.

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aupton15
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I think McCain fits the mold of a fiscal conservative. He certainly isn't a social conservative to the extent that he would appeal to the religious right. I think he opposed to tax cut during war time because it wasn't fiscally responsible. In other times of prosperity he might be for them. I don't know that for sure, but I suspect it is unfair to say he is against tax cuts based on this one particular cut. But I'm guessing a little.
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Everard
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http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=S0061103
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Robertson, Ugly and Nohow
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I don't see them taking anybody influential out of the senate. They're going to need everyone they got there when the SC nominees start happenning.
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witless chum
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I believe the law calls for the president to nominate someone else for V.P., who is then confirmed by the senate.

That's what happened with Agnew resigned from the second Nixon administration, Ford was then confirmed by the Senate. Supposedley Ford was picked because the Democratic Senate basically forced him on Nixon, threatening not to confirm anyone else.

It might be a thought of Rudy Guiliani? I don't think he could become president now, but if he served two years as vice president? Maybe so, it'd make him a much more credible candidate. We'll see where the GOP goes, if it goes in the direction of no moderates, esp. pro-choice, need apply, then some conservative senator or governor would be possible.

I tend to believe McCain when he says he's done. I'm probably crazy to believe a politician who says he doesn't have anymore higher ambitions, but I think McCain's for real.

Dan

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ATW
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
http://www.vote-smart.org/npat.php?can_id=S0061103

Right. And looking into what Mccain had in mind in 2000

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\Politics\archive\200001\POL20000110f.html

"while Bush proposes a tax cut for everyone, McCain contends wealthy taxpayers don't need a cut and aims his plan at a majority of lower- and middle-income taxpayers."


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/19/campaign.wrap/

"maintains that Bush's five-year, $483 billion tax cut plan is aimed at the rich"


McCain not only opposed across the board tax cuts but even used thatr same rhetoric as democrats in opposing them.


=====

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/gops29.shtml


excerpts

The Republican presidential contest erupted into factional warfare yesterday, as Sen. John McCain labeled several Christian conservative leaders as "agents of intolerance"

In the harshest words yet spoken in the Republican campaign, McCain labeled Bush a "Pat Robertson Republican who will lose to Al Gore." The TV evangelist, whose broadcast empire is headquartered in Virginia Beach, is a Bush supporter.

"The politics of division and slander are not our values," McCain said in Virginia. "They are corrupting influences on religion and politics and those who practice them in the name of religion or in the name of the Republican Party or in the name of America shame our faith, our party and our country."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000301/aponline233632_000.htm

After first standing by him, conservative activist Gary Bauer urged John McCain on Wednesday to retract and apologize for bitingly critical statements about religious leaders Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

"I am not backing away from the speech," McCain said.

On Wednesday, Bauer criticized McCain's comparison of Robertson and Falwell to the Rev. Al Sharpton and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan. "Such rhetoric serves only to divide the party and place into the hands of the liberal elite material to falsely depict Christian conservatives as intolerant extremists," Bauer said.

He also criticized McCain's later statement, on his campaign bus, that he was trying to battle "the forces of evil," and was hampered by Robertson's and Falwell's influence on the Republican Party.

Concerning that, McCain said Wednesday, "It was a lighthearted attempt at humor. I did not say or mean to say they are evil."

In a formal statement later, McCain reiterated that his use of the word 'evil' was misunderstood, but reaffirmed the remainder of his comments concerning Robertson and Falwell.

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Everard
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Yup. Like I said, the Conservative branch of the republican party respects him a lot more then they do Bush. Ask our people who self identify as conservative republicans on this board... I'm guessing you'll get McCain being trusted more then Bush.

You can't prove me wrong by saying what I'm taking into account. There is a large faction of the republican party that views the Robertson/Falwell wing of the republican party with mistrust. And on taxes, note that he is for cutting taxes on just about everything expect people making more then 150k per year, who he wishes to maintain taxes on.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Conservative branch of the republican party respects him a lot more then they do Bush. Ask our people who self identify as conservative republicans on this board... I'm guessing you'll get McCain being trusted more then Bush.
LoL! I think you are wishful thinking. I bet most that agree with you will be the couple of ABBs that identify themselves as conservative, like David Ricardo. Ask Gary, or one of the hardcore conservatives, and I bet you will get a different story. McCain is unpalatable to cultural conservatives and even to most cultural moderates so long as he opposes the amendment to protect marriage.


quote:
McCain has been an outspoken critic of some of the central elements of Bush's presidency.
He WAS, and then he suddenly stopped, rejected multiple pleas to come aboard as Kerry's running mate, and became a Bush loyalist. You don't think there was any deal with Bush here?

quote:
I don't think, being the sort of man he seems to be, that McCain would accept a position which would associate him too closely with various actions that this administration is likely to take.
You may be right about that, though methinks your reasoning is off. McCain may be vain enough to think that his popularity among the ABB crowd, to help him win in 2008. He doesn't realize that they only like him as a wedge against Bush. Once Bush is gone, if McCain becomes a Republican presidential candidate, the left will find some excuse to demonize him. Just look how some ABBs are already trashing Kerry, yesterday's hopeful.
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Everard
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I think you're wrong Pete. McCain would have beaten Gore handily in 2000, because many democrats respect him a great deal, as well as having great respect from most of the republican party. Obviously, a large part of the democratic party would find McCain intolerable, but that portion of the democratic party is smaller then the portion that finds Bush intolerable.

"McCain is unpalatable to cultural conservatives and even to most cultural moderates so long as he opposes the amendment to protect marriage."

I think you overestimate how important that amendment is. The vast majority of americans believe that gays should be allowed, at least, to enter into civil unions (65-35 or so, by almost every poll over the last year that asks whether people think gays should be able to marry, should be able to have legal unions, or neither).

As far as being unpalatable to cultural conservatives, you may be right. Then again, thats the falwell/robertson wing of the republican party that I'm talking about. Would McCain have as much support amongst the evangelicals as Bush gets? Nope. But he'd get a lot more support from the economic conservatives and small governmnet republicans then Bush does. And thats the wing of the republican party I'm talking about.

Like it or not, Pete, McCain is a highly respected politician, on both sides of the aisle. The same can't be said of Bush or Kerry.

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ATW
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:


You can't prove me wrong by saying what I'm taking into account. There is a large faction of the republican party that views the Robertson/Falwell wing of the republican party with mistrust. And on taxes, note that he is for cutting taxes on just about everything expect people making more then 150k per year, who he wishes to maintain taxes on.

Sure, there's a large fraction views the Robertson/Falwell wing of the republican party with mistrust. But that fraction is not the conservative religious right people. McCain has taken a public stand against them.

And on taxes I do note that he's wanting to cut taxes in places which other than people making over $150,000/year. And that one exception places him diametrically on the opposite side of the issue from the tax cut conservative camp. Cutting taxes like McCain proposed would have increased the progressivity of the tax code and squished much of the economic benefit. The tax cut conservatives want to decrease the progressivity of the tax code ideally or at the least not make it any worse.

Which brings me back to my original point that McCain is the outright enemy of the religious right and the tax cut conservatives.

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Lewkowski
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"
Really? I believe you that most liberals don't like Rice, but I always thought they liked Powell. I see him as the most moderate, reasonable person in Bush's administration. "

Liberals hate it when Black (or any minority) run for office as a conservative. This threatens their ability to call all Republicans racist. Uassualy they run an "Uncle Tom" campaign to convince people that the minority in question is a traitor to his people.

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Godot
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I thing Cheney could be replaced by Boss Tweed with nary a ripple.
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Anonymous24
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The idea of the Bush administration replacing Cheney seems impossible. Cheney is one of the main if not *the* main policy-makers of the Bush administration. If Cheney steps down, who's going to be running the country? Rumsfeld?

Liberals don't hate it when blacks run as conservatives. However, sometimes we see the appointment of minorities to high-profile positions as cynical manipulation of moderate Americans. This applies to both parties, but not to all cases of minority appointment.

For instance I think this does apply to the case of Clarence Thomas who was deemed to be unqualified by the American Bar Association. Miguel Estrada, on the other hand, was given the highest rating possible by the Bar Association. In both cases, both men had an edge because of minority-status. One of them was highly qualified, the other wasn't.

[ November 15, 2004, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Anonymous24 ]

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Pete at Home
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quote:
I think you overestimate how important that amendment is.
I think that you are confusing *what* amendment I am talking about.


quote:
The vast majority of americans believe that gays should be allowed, at least, to enter into civil unions (65-35 or so, by almost every poll over the last year that asks whether people think gays should be able to marry, should be able to have legal unions, or neither).
Although you have the numbers wrong, you know very well, if you'd paid attention at all, that I am one of the ones who advocates civil unions as opposed to ssm. And those that think like me on this, and understand how American courts work, still want an federal amendment to protect marriage.

quote:
Like it or not, Pete, McCain is a highly respected politician, on both sides of the aisle.
Depends what "aisle" you are talking about. If you want to keep your head in the sand about the importance of cultural issues, that's your choice. Hopefully wiser voices will prevail in the Democratic party.

Dems are no less manipulative than Republicans on minorities. Yes, Thomas probably would not have been confirmed had he been white. On the other hand, Estrada would have been confirmed if white, because Dems since Thomas are much nastier about letting nonwhite conservatives through than white ones. And on cultural conservative issues, Democrats absolutely refuse to support any minorities who aren't far left on cultural issues, even though the black and latino communities overall are more culturally conservative than whites.

Thus, black congress reps are as much filtered, parsed, and approved by the white extremists on the Democrat side as on the Republican side.

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Everard
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Right, whatever, Pete. you want to claim McCain isn't a respected politician, fine, you have to live with your own delusions. I won't worry about them.
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Lewkowski
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"Liberals don't hate it when blacks run as conservatives. However, sometimes we see the appointment of minorities to high-profile positions as cynical manipulation of moderate Americans. This applies to both parties, but not to all cases of minority appointment"

Yes they hate it. Cynical maniuplation? Conservatives cut taxes for all people. Your essential thoughts are quite revealing. You think liberals do more for minorities then conservatives, and any attempt to put a minority conservative in a position of power you vie was "cynical maniuplation."

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Pete. you want to claim McCain isn't a respected politician, fine, you have to live with your own delusions.
Ev, would you please stop misrepresenting what people say?

(Note that unlike you, I provide context): I did not say that McCain is not respected. Hell, I respect him. There are many things about John Kerry that I respect.

What I said is that not as many Democrats, nor culturally conservative Republicans, will vote for him as a presidential candidate, as you are suggesting.

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Anonymous24
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"Yes they hate it. Cynical maniuplation? Conservatives cut taxes for all people. Your essential thoughts are quite revealing. You think liberals do more for minorities then conservatives, and any attempt to put a minority conservative in a position of power you vie was "cynical maniuplation.""

Well, I think liberals give minorities more of what they want. Blacks want affirmative action. I don't think a lot of the ones living in inner-cities took kindly to welfare reform. Hispanic Americans want immigration aid particularly aid relating to their children's education.

I call it 'cynical manipulation' because many times its a calculated move to make the administration look more moderate than it is in the eyes of Americans. Just as 'ghetto education initiatives' are targeted more towards winning the votes of white suburban women than they are towards winning the votes of people actually living in the ghetto.

[ November 15, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Anonymous24 ]

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Lewkowski
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Affirmative Action is governmental racism similar to Jim Crow laws. It is evil. It is racist. And it should be done away with. Skin color should not matter.

The only reason that the democrats get such a big portion of the minority votes is due to the media. They attempt to show Republicans as racist. Look at this past election. Look at the democrats tactics. I think I even started a thread on this forum. It was about how democrats were to claim discrimination and black voter supression EVEN IF THERE WAS NO SIGNS OF IT HAPPENING.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Well, I think liberals give minorities more of what they want. Blacks want affirmative action. I don't think a lot of the ones living in inner-cities took kindly to welfare reform. Hispanic Americans want immigration aid particularly aid relating to their children's education.
Blacks and hispanics, percentagewise, oppose same-sex marriage to a greater degree than whites. So in that respect, Republicans give them more of what they want. And I can't think of a single black federal polititian that has EVER been representative of blacks' typical views as a whole, i.e. pro-affirmative action, anti-welfare reform, and culturally conservative on issues like religion and marriage. The Republican black federal polititians range from Alan Keyes, all the way to Colin Powell. The Democratic party sure as hell does not tolerate that sort of variety among it's black nominees, nor do black Democratic nominees remotely represent the cultural conservatism of most African-Americans.
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Ivan
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quote:
It was about how democrats were to claim discrimination and black voter supression EVEN IF THERE WAS NO SIGNS OF IT HAPPENING.
I suggest you re-read that thread, Lew, because you seem to have missed some of the key points.
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Lewkowski
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Such as? All I know is that phrase was found on a manual to the 2004 election distrubted by the DNC in one of the states. Thats enough for me. Democrats always try to use race as a weapon. Thats why they get sickened at the idea of black conservatives.
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Kilthmal
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quote:
Ev said "Liberals don't hate it when blacks run as conservatives. However, sometimes we see the appointment of minorities to high-profile positions as cynical manipulation of moderate Americans. This applies to both parties, but not to all cases of minority appointment"

Lew said Yes they hate it. Cynical maniuplation? Conservatives cut taxes for all people. Your essential thoughts are quite revealing. You think liberals do more for minorities then conservatives, and any attempt to put a minority conservative in a position of power you vie was "cynical maniuplation."

Lew, please chill on the rabid partisanship. I know sometimes Ornery seems like a long series of running battles, but when that view takes over you need to take a step back. Ev is not the enemy, he's just a fellow traveler seeking to exchange conversation. The election is over, we no longer need to hide in armed camps.

Kilthmal

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LoverOfJoy
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quote:
McCain is far more trusted the Bush is, especially among the Conservative wing of the Republican party.
There may be some truth to that, although that trust would wane if McCain had accepted an offer from Kerry to be his VP candidate.

Do you really think the conservative wing of the republican party would continue to trust McCain if he started running on the democratic ticket???

If Kerry chose him as his running mate, he might win some undecideds but at the price of much of the passion of the hard left. And I seriously doubt that Kerry would have won over many Bush supporters. People still vote the top of the ticket.

This election was much more about get out the votes than winning over the few undecideds.

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Lewkowski
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Kith Any attempt by the republicans to appoint a conservative judge who happens to be a minority will be challenged.
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