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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Jon Stewart triumphant!

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Author Topic: Jon Stewart triumphant!
TomDavidson
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http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050106-4509.html
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JLMyers
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Tucker is out! Yeehaa! Unfortunately he has another job, but it's a start. TD, thanks for the link.

KE

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Lewkowski
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I really doubt Jon Stewart had any impact. The guy does comedy no one takes him seriously, he doesn't even take himself seriously.
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TomDavidson
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Lew, sometimes you should consider including an "in my opinion" or "I think." It would make most of your sentences far, far more correct, in that you have a tendency to speak absolute nonsense. [Smile]
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philnotfil
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From the article linked above:
quote:
Mr. Klein specifically cited the criticism that the comedian Jon Stewart leveled at "Crossfire" when he was a guest on the program during the presidential campaign. Mr. Stewart said that ranting partisan political shows on cable were "hurting America." Mr. Klein said last night, "I agree wholeheartedly with Jon Stewart's overall premise." He said he believed that especially after the terror attacks on 9/11, viewers are interested in information, not opinion.
Mr. Klein is the president of CNN
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aupton15
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I expect he takes himself more seriously than he lets on. I don't think he implies that he is an expert on the issues. But he takes himself seriously enough to address what he sees as a deficit in the media. He did it with some humor, no doubt about it. But don't confuse that with a lack of seriousness.
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Haggis
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Lew,

Didn't actually read the link did you?

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Lewkowski
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Nope of course not. Regardless if Jon is right or wrong, his opinion doesn't really have any influence.

And explain why Hannity and Colmes thrash most CNN shows? And what about O'rielly?

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Wayward Son
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Explain why WWF is so popular? [Smile]
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The Drake
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The World Wildlife Fund?
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Nope of course not. Regardless if Jon is right or wrong, his opinion doesn't really have any influence.

Lew, you should really read the link before you say this yet again...
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Wayward Son
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Actually, I was thinking of the World Wrestling Federation. [Razz]
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A. Alzabo
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quote:
Actually, I was thinking of the World Wrestling Federation.
Not Senator Santorum's Wildlife Wrestling Federation?
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Wayward Son
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Well, OK, maybe that, too. [Wink]
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JLMyers
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Lew,

Are you even reading other posts or just your own? If you read the quote in philnotfil's post you will see that you are wrong.

KE

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Lewkowski
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"Mr. Klein specifically cited the criticism that the comedian Jon Stewart leveled at "Crossfire" when he was a guest on the program during the presidential campaign. Mr. Stewart said that ranting partisan political shows on cable were "hurting America." Mr. Klein said last night, "I agree wholeheartedly with Jon Stewart's overall premise." He said he believed that especially after the terror attacks on 9/11, viewers are interested in information, not opinion."

If some random bum on the street said the same thing would you be saying that random joe bum was the reason CNN is cancelling crossfire?

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A. Alzabo
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quote:
If some random bum on the street said the same thing would you be saying that random joe bum was the reason CNN is cancelling crossfire?
When that "random joe bum" is specifically cited by the president of CNN, who has just cancelled Crossfire, then yes.
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Snowden
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quote:
He said he believed that especially after the terror attacks on 9/11, viewers are interested in information, not opinion.
I don't mind opinion. I like honest informed opionions, what I don't like is opinions about other people's opinions. The problem is that instead of interpreting the event, they interpret polls about the event, and that's when it turns to crap. It degrades the entire process.

When Tucker and Begala directly interpret the event, and not how it is going to play in X demographic or what Z people are going to think about it, then that's fine.

[ January 08, 2005, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: Snowden ]

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Lewkowski
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Not that I have much faith in CNN a liberal news network. They are pretty clueless if they cancel one of the few fair and balanced shows they have.
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scifibum
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OK, so the CNN guy agrees with Jon Stewart. Doesn't mean that Jon made it happen. Possibly he contributed. [Smile] I think there's room for skepticism that Jon's opinion had real consequence in this case.

Unnecessary example: I say that it's too warm in the building (subjective opinion). Let's just pretend that I get a lot of attention for my statement. Later on, the building owner says "I'm turning down the temperature. I wholeheartedly agree with what scifibum said." He only cites me because of the fame of my earlier statement. I think it's reasonable to allow that the building owner might have done the same thing even had I said nothing. Or, you could say I triumphed. [Smile]

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cesare borgia
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I say John Stewart wins if the news media entirely reforms itself along his argument--or at least if CNN puts on a better show to replace Crossfire.
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TomDavidson
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"Not that I have much faith in CNN a liberal news network. They are pretty clueless if they cancel one of the few fair and balanced shows they have."

Way to spin, Lew. [Smile]

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Gaoics79
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"I agree wholeheartedly with Jon Stewart's overall premise." He said he believed that especially after the terror attacks on 9/11, viewers are interested in information, not opinion."

NO! That was not the correct conclusion to draw from Stewart's comments. Stewart was clearly not against opinion and debate being expressed on television news programs, (indeed, he explicitly stated that a real debate show would be a great thing) but was against the partisan hackery shown on shows like Crossfire.

Real debate is not about shouting inane partisan campaign slogans at your opponents; that is not debate, but demagoguery. That was what Stewart was clearly upset about. Have you ever watched Crossfire? The WWF analogy was not even close to being a joke; it was bang on accurate. Crossfire and shows like it are crude parodies of real debates.

[ January 08, 2005, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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Lewkowski
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"
Real debate is not about shouting inane partisan campaign slogans at your opponents; that is not debate, but demagoguery. That was what Stewart was clearly upset about. Have you ever watched Crossfire? The WWF analogy was not even close to being a joke; it was bang on accurate. Crossfire and shows like it are crude parodies of real debates."

Real debate is stupid and unintresting and also not constructive. The point of shows like crossfire is to get each sides point of view across on a broad range of issues. Ie conservative stance on X issue is this. Liberal stance on X issue is this. They tend to be lock step with the offical position of both parties wrapped up in an entertaining way. Crossfire + Hannity/Colmes are VERY informative about how the political parties in this country look at things.

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Everard
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"Real debate is stupid and unintresting and also not constructive."

So why exactly are you posting here?

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Gaoics79
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"Real debate is stupid and unintresting and also not constructive"

What can I say, except I strongly disagree. Real debate involves stating one's opinion, listening to the opinion of another person, and then attempting to achieve some kind of synthesis that incorporates the best of both sides. At the very least, even if it doesn't change anyone's mind, it forces people to think more critically and to defend their beliefs. I see nothing stupid about this.

"The point of shows like crossfire is to get each sides point of view across on a broad range of issues. Ie conservative stance on X issue is this. Liberal stance on X issue is this."

No. That is no more the point of Crossfire than the point of professional wrestling is to demonstrate athleticism and competitive spirit. Crossfire is an act; it is, as Stewart stated, a form of theatre. Each side states its slogans and does its best to sway the mob one way or the other, but this does not actually represent the true opinion of the commentators. The easiest way to recognize this is to watch a man like Paul Biggala: strange how his behavior radically changes depending on which show he's on. When he's on a serious news program, he actually talks about political strategy; he will actually tell you what each party is thinking, and will give credit to his ideological opponents when they score political points. By contrast, when he's on Crossfire, he will never say anything that is not an attack on his opponents. He will never acknowledge a single success, or grant them a single point. If John Kerry went on a chainsaw massacre and chopped up 100 schoolchildren, he'd find a way to change the topic to Haliburton. No one who watches this trash can sincerely believe that these guys are engaged in anything but demagoguery.

There are serious differences in ideology between democrats and republicans, but I have yet to see any of them discussed on Crossfire. They're much too busy tossing around the latest political gotcha, or throwing around mindless political slogans that have about as much intellectual content as a pro-wrestler's pre-fight interview.

[ January 09, 2005, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: jasonr ]

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FiredrakeRAGE
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Lew - I find that 90 percent of the time talk shows contribute nothing. They state obvious generalities and expect applause for it.

I'll do my own thinking, thanks.

--Firedrake

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Lewkowski
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"Lew - I find that 90 percent of the time talk shows contribute nothing. They state obvious generalities and expect applause for it."

Missing the point.

What is the conservative issue on some random news event. Watch crossfire and you'll hear it said by the two conservatives. Ditto with the liberal side.

I prefer the Hannity and Colmes format myself. Its an hour long, has interviews (like with the VP). Crossfire tends to be a bit too fast and not able to get the full back and forth.

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TomDavidson
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"What is the conservative issue on some random news event. Watch crossfire and you'll hear it said by the two conservatives. Ditto with the liberal side."

And you believe that this is an improvement on honest debate? That the world needs so badly to hear each side's talking points that we need television shows dedicated to nothing else?

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Lewkowski
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"That the world needs so badly to hear each side's talking points that we need television shows dedicated to nothing else? "

Yes. How else can you determine which party to vote for?

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FiredrakeRAGE
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You look at the talking points of the individuals you're voting for.

Who would look at party points to vote for canidates?

--Firedrake

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Lewkowski
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When parties tend to vote in blocks.
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ed
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am i alone in finding it weird that this is listed on ars technica?

ed

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WarrsawPact
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quote:
"I guess I come down more firmly in the Jon Stewart camp," said CNN Chief Executive Jonathan Klein. Reacting to the news, Stewart said, "I had no idea that if you wanted a show canceled, all you had to do was say it out loud."
Hahaha... ooooh. Good stuff.

Oh, and by the way... thanks to the World Wrestling Federation being sued by the World Wildlife Fund, they have changed their name to the WWE, World Wrestling Entertainment. The wrestling shows had a big campaign about it too, something about "Get the F out".
What can I say, my brother TiVos the stuff.

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