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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Miscellaneous Chat (Page 196)

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Author Topic: Miscellaneous Chat
Funean
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WOOOOOOO!!!

Bless ya, KE! [Smile]

Watch for me, while I get the kids to bed.

Ima hold YOU accountable if the Rays get ahead while I'm upstairs. [Wink]

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KnightEnder
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You people outside of Texas don't have "Papa's" restaurants do you? "Papa's Steak House", "Papasitos", "Papa's Sea Food", they are all among the best restaurants I've ever eaten in. And while not cheap they aren't exorbinent. Except for maybe "Papa's Steak House", but it is worth it. I've eaten at Ruth Chris's in several states, Morton's in DC, Salt Grass Steak House, and a lot of really good steak Houses and Papa's was the best (although the rest were all very very good. I like steak.)

If you ever get the chance I highly recommend any of them. (Thought of this cause I took Stacy to Papasitos for lunch yesterday.)

KE

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KnightEnder
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Chuck Norris doesn't have a night-light in his bedroom because he is afraid of the dark, he has a night-light in his room because the dark is afraid of him. [Smile]

KE

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Funean
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AND THEY TAKE IT!!!

First championship in 25 years! Wooo!!!

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Kat_Freeman
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Psst... does anyone here read XKCD?
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msquared
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Yes.

msquared

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Clark
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Me too.
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jimskater
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xkcd?
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jimskater
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oooooh. xkcd

I think I like it

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KnightEnder
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Congrats Funean!

What is xkcd?

KE

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Kat_Freeman
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...I knew it.

xkcd is a webcomic. Not sure how best to describe it, but they've had a storyline this week about appointing a "secretary of the internet." When he introduced "Tron Paul" I thought of you guys.

I've noticed there's a disproportionate number of engineers on this board, so I had to wonder...

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Clark
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xkcd is 'duckx' spelled backwards. and with no vowels. Or . . .

If you want to see what it really is, just go to xkcd.com. It's a comic that tends to be pretty nerdy, as it's written by a guy with a degree in physics who works, I believe, as a computer programmer. It's terrific, but if you have a degree in French Lit a lot of it might go right over your head.

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scifibum
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While we're on the topic, don't miss these two from the archives (OSC connection!):

http://xkcd.com/241/

http://xkcd.com/304/

Edit: and to save any new fans some time, make sure you read the "alt text" that should appear when you let your cursor hover over each comic. It might get cut off in Firefox 2, but there's an add-on that fixes that, and in IE 7 (nobody still uses 6, right?) and in Firefox 3 I think it just works.

[ October 31, 2008, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: scifibum ]

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scifibum
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I interviewed for a promotion/reassignment yesterday and the guy presented a brain teaser. I took the wrong direction and he kind of coached me to the right answer.

Let me ask you guys. I want to see whether people interpret it the way I did or the way he intended:

You take a trip from point A to point B. The distance is 100 miles, and you make the trip at 100 MPH, so it takes an hour.

What speed would you have to travel on the return trip in order for your your average speed for the round trip to be double the speed from point A to point B?

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kenmeer livermaile
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The second sentence is slightly ambiguous. Can you be more precise?
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scifibum
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Your goal is to travel back from point B to point A, at a speed such that your average speed for the entire trip (point A to point B and back again) is TWICE the speed at which you originally traveled from point A to point B.

What's the B to A speed that accomplishes the goal?

(I don't know if that helped or not. I'm trying to preserve the way the question was put to me.)

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OpsanusTau
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I am not sure that I am interpreting "average speed" the way the question intends. Did he want you to say 300 mph?
Because that is incorrect.

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Kat_Freeman
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Er... 300mph?

300 + 100 = 400

400/2 = 200

200 = 100 * 2

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OpsanusTau
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In fact, the way I read the question, there is no answer that makes any kind of sense.
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scifibum
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You win, Ops. The intended answer was "you can't." Because "average speed" is calculated by (total distance traveled) / (total time elapsed).

Double the first leg's speed would be 200 MPH. Since total distance traveled would be 200 miles, you'd need (200 miles) / (60 min). since 60 min already elapsed, the only speed that'd suffice is "infinitely fast."

I didn't get it. I figured, like Kat, that you could average your first leg's speed and second leg's speed together (no weighting for time) and that'd be your "average speed."

I like the brain teaser but it does require one to recognize the right way to calculate average speed, and I didn't. I felt kind of bad for screwing it up. Good thing the hiring manager wants to hire me anyway. [Wink]

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kenmeer livermaile
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I'm far from math-challenged but am decidedly verbocentric. My motto is that a 'word problem' that can't be as semantically precise as the math it references requires infinite thought or 'synchronous serendipity'(i.e. wildass lucky guess) to be solved. Hence, it is an unanswerable by question BY VIRTUE OF BEING UNASKED.

Also, your answer to this unasked question is unexplained:

"Double the first leg's speed would be 200 MPH. Since total distance traveled would be 200 miles, you'd need (200 miles) / (60 min). since 60 min already elapsed, the only speed that'd suffice is "infinitely fast."

I don't recall the question asking one to make the return trip in time that has already elapsed.

Methinks this is Zeno redux

[ October 31, 2008, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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Kat_Freeman
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Bugger. Totally fell for it.

Congrats, btw!

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kenmeer livermaile
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I am intellectually stubborn to an excruciating degree. That is part of my "charm". If I don't understand it, I don't believe ANYone's assertion in matters that aren't based on reputation (like, for example, the NYTimes says Bloomberg considers running again, et cetera).

If its formulaic, if it involves precise entities such as precise axioms and quantities and qualities, I don't believe NOTHIN' until it has been explained adequately in a way that doesn't require infinite thought (average Joe trying to grasp general relativity) or a wildass lucky guess.

No one has explained or solved anything here to my mind, and my mind is, I believe, capable of understanding 99.9% of human knowledge.There is, for me, a grey stretch of assumption that hasn't parsed for me. I highly suspect all grey stretches of assumption

For all we know, Opsanus' answer is as much serendipity of applied understanding than a correct assessment of the riddle. For all we know, scifibum has been fooled into thinking he aced the test when in fact he is now in the real examination and the clock is ticking.

"Boss give trick question, 'steer me right', I give 'right' answer, boss pat on head, so I smart for getting the nudge, I pass."

Maybe the nudge is a red herring.

IF you can verbally (with of course, embedded mathematics like 200mph divided/times, et cetera) why infinite speed is one true answer, then my bull**** alarm will stop clamoring. Until then, I don't believe any one 'knows' the answer.

[ October 31, 2008, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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Everard
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Vavg for A->B=100mph
Vavg to solve the problem =200mph.
Vavg general=distance/time
Total distance of round trip=200miles
If problem requires Vavgtrip to be 200mph in order to solve,
Distance/time must=200
Distance=200
Time A->B=1
In order to get from B-> additional time must be spent.
Time is therefore>1
200/any number >1 is less then 200.
Therefore, there is no speed to travel that will get you back to A such that the average speed for the round trip is 200mph.

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Kat_Freeman
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I stretched the A -> B to B -> A into one long distance to avoid confusion. For the more visual:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Qqquestioner/the_problem.jpg?t=1225475648

(Way to go scifi. You made my boyfriend and I get into a math fight.)

On a related note...
http://xkcd.com/356/

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kenmeer livermaile
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Thanx y'all. I have a daughter in surgery occupying my mind just now but this will give me pleasant cerebral cud for later on today...
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kenmeer livermaile
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"Therefore, there is no speed to travel that will get you back to A such that the average speed for the round trip is 200mph. "

But before I go, I'll say that "there is no answer that will..." is a much more intuitively comprehensible answer than infinitely fast or such.

We're not talking near-luminal speeds after all, but normal slow Newtonian mechanics.

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Everard
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Kat-
I use that xkcd on the cover of one of my circuit handouts.

KL- Hope she's ok.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Well, she's OK. I just got word. Her original neurostimulator implant in her cervical region, which is designed to override the mysterious chronic pains of CRPS, has migrated. That is, the wire leads have moved. It happens; also, she didn't hardly wear her cervical collar and she even tried a bit of her old martial arts for awhile (but gave that up soon).

So they will have to do another one and she's worried about losing her job because of all the time off, and honestly, I don't think she can *hear* the words "I told you so". It's not that one can say w/ certainty that her cavalier lack of diligence to her post-op recovery recommendations caused the leads to migrate, but then, these seeming cause-and-effect patterns are staples of her history.

Good news: there IS a solid diagnosis, the nuerostim worked great before it moved, and they'll do it again.

Bad news: what I described above, her in pain until the surgery, and her mood like that of a scalded alleycat.

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KnightEnder
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So since he was going 1.66666666 miles a minute he can never go twice a never ending number? You should have just punched the guy.

KE

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KnightEnder
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In my job interview for here the president of the company and my boss the Sales/Product Manager both sat in on one of my interviews (I picked this number out of a phone book called and said "Can I speak to your sales manager?" asked him if they were hiring and he said "Wow, you've got great timing I just contacted Monster today about hiring a salesman. [Smile] ) anyway, the President of the company asked me "Whether I would ask for permission, or ask for forgiveness?" I said; "It depends." I asked my boss the other day what the right answer to that question was and he said; "**** him." [Smile]

KE

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KnightEnder
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Ken, I hope everything goes well for you and your daughter.

KE

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scifibum
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Heh. The guy was on the phone so I couldn't punch him.

KL: there's not much satisfaction in it for me when I get asked a trick(y) question and get nudged toward the desired answer. I certainly never felt I aced the test (it was embarrassing for me, to be honest). But I hadn't considered the possibility that the real test extended beyond the temporal bounds of the Q&A. Hmm.

To be fair the interviewer's desired answer was "there is no answer" not "infinitely fast." The latter is just my alternative/synonym for the same thing. After all, even from the arbitrary frame of reference of the traveler, even the speed of light wouldn't suffice to add nothing to the travel time since there has to be acceleration. In other words, I intuitively connect "infinitely fast" to "there is no answer."

BTW: after, the guy on the phone apologized (smugly) for the "mean" question. That actually made it worse.

Kat - nice diagram. [Smile] Sorry about the math fight.

Here's another one that "The Rabbit" posted over on Hatrack which I thought was kinda fun. I didn't get this one either, but someone did:

quote:
You have 10 bombs and you know that one of them is a dud. The dud has different weight (mass) than the bombs but you don't know if it weigh more or less. You have a balance, the kind where you can put things on both sides and see if they weigh the same.

It is possible to identify the dud in three weighings. How do you do it?

There are no standard counter weights available. The only thing you can put on the balance is the bombs.



[ October 31, 2008, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: scifibum ]

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KnightEnder
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My brain won't even begin to wrap around that one. The best I could hope was to get lucky.

KE

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scifibum
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For no good reason, I put the solution into a flow chart which you can view if you want to at this URL:
http://filebin.ca/ftoevf/Bombpuzzlediag.png

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munga
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my brain said, "This is a zero-net-advantage exercise. Skip."

numbers have to pay to be crunched

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scifibum
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I take it you're not a crossword junkie, munga.
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munga
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can't even look at em
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OpsanusTau
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I tend to think of physics-related problems in graphical form right off the bat. And if you graph that problem, it is immediately apparent that any solution requires a vertical slope. Vertical slope is not allowed.

I remember the bomb problem (only in a different, non-exploding-object form) and remember the general form of the solution, but can't be bothered to think it out. I remember it appearing in some awful fantasy novel or other.

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KnightEnder
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It's a good thing there are so many obviously partisan bs lines in OSC's new article. Some of it makes you think...maybe...and then he turns into Sean Hannity and you snap back to reality.

KE

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