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Author Topic: Miscellaneous Chat
KnightEnder
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What makes him think they won't come after him? They have nothing to lose, and that would send a serious message to the other "thousands" of federal prosecutors.

KE

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foliated
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KE wrote:

quote:
More cream in the coffee. [Confused]

nope. [Smile]
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Storm Saxon
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KE,

Yep.

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foliated
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oh, and here's my guess for your problem, KE:

The thirtieth dollar went to one of the three gentlemen, who, though they are named Bert, Ernie, and Tinky-Winky, are nevertheless just friends. [Big Grin]

As did the 27th and 26th. The 28th and 29th (to stick to the numbering you suggested) stayed with the clerk. Put another way, the three men paid 27 dollars, two of which ended up in the clerk's pocket. So if you like, those aren't the 28th and 29th bills in the clerk's pocket. They are the 26th and 27th.

as for my problem, what I am asking is this. After you do the procedure I described, is there more coffee in the cup that originally had only cream, or is there more cream in the cup that originally had only coffee?

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foliated
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okay. even more precise, and maybe less readable because of that:

which is greater: the amount of coffee in the cup that originally had only cream, or the amount of cream in the cup that originally had only coffee?

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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
which is greater: the amount of coffee in the cup that originally had only cream, or the amount of cream in the cup that originally had only coffee?
Did each cup have equal volumes of their respectives at the start?
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foliated
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kenmeer wrote:

quote:
Did each cup have equal volumes of their respectives at the start?
this is an interesting question. You'll be able to answer it if you get the problem. but here's the original question, together with clarifications. The third is the most important one, I think.

quote:
you have a cup of coffee, and a cup of cream next to each other on a table. I take a teaspoon of cream and put it in the coffee. Then I take a teaspoon of the (inhomogeneous!) coffee-cream mixture, and put it in the cup of cream.

So, is there now more cream in the coffee, or more coffee in the cream?

1. since I say that you have "a cup of coffee" and "a cup of cream" you can assume both that a) there are two cups in front of you, and b) they each contain the amount of liquid equal to what a cook would call a "cup". So the volume of liquid in each cup is the same.

2. What I'm asking is this. After you do the procedure described above, which is greater: the amount of coffee in the cup that originally contained only cream, or the amount of cream in the cup that originally contained only coffee?

3. (this is actually essential and I forgot this part, sorry) you use the same spoon for both operations.

4. In each transfer of liquid, I move the same amount of liquid, whether it's cream in the first transfer, or the mixture in the second transfer. Namely, I move one teaspoon of liquid each time.

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Mariner
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foliated's riddle is actually quite simple. Since one teaspoon is added to and one teaspoon subtracted from each cup, each cup has the same volume that it started with. Thus, the amount of cream lost in the cream cup is countered by the exact same amount of coffee that is now in the cream cup. Therefore, there is the same amount of cream in the coffee as there is coffee in the cream.

Of course, my answer assumes that coffee and cream form an ideal solution, ie, the partial molar volumes of cream and coffee in solution are the same as their molar volumes as pure components. But I'm sure foliated didn't expect thermodynamics to come into this.

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KnightEnder
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Foliated,

Correct.

But wouldn't the Coffee Cream mixture mean that you are putting less than a full teaspoon of coffee back into the cream?

KE

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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
But wouldn't the Coffee Cream mixture mean that you are putting less than a full teaspoon of coffee back into the cream?
He said that it would be nonhomogenous. I other words, the coffee and cream would remain magically separate even when placed in the same cup.
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KnightEnder
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Ahh, using trick words. I see how we're gonna play, now. [Wink]

KE

[ February 15, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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KnightEnder
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Anybody know what the status is on the outing of that CIA agent by Rove and that traitor Tom Novak?

KE

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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
Anybody know what the status is on the outing of that CIA agent by Rove and that traitor Tom Novak?
Some folks say there weren't any scandals in this administration. From where I stand, there've been so many I done give up tracking them.
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KnightEnder
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Anybody read that story on the Aryan Brotherhood that Storm Saxon linked on page 2? Good article, it would make a good book. I don't agree with their actions, but I can understand how they feel. A couple of months ago I was taken to Galveston County jail due to my wife having forged my signature to a check that bounced. Better me than her.

Anyway, I was in a cell with one other white guy and about fifteen black guys, also three guys straight from Mexico but they didn't speak english and were passed out drunk most of the time. One of the black guys threatened me and we got face to face in the cell before he decided he didn't want to fight. Now I've argued against racism many times on this board, but I can't help feeling that if we had of fought, the other black guys in the cell would have been on his side. They all seemed to form an immediate bond and I was definitely the outsider. So, I can see why, being outnumbered 10 to 1, they would do what they had to do to survive in prison.

KE

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Storm Saxon
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I should have probably given it it's own thread, because it's something that has a lot of aspects to it, but since I've already made one on the other side, and I'm not that egotistical that I think my stuff has to be read by the whole world, I guess I'll just leave it in here to be read and commented on by any who are interested.
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foliated
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Mariner's solution (in the first paragraph) is basically correct, though the amount of liquid in each cup at the beginning and end is actually irrelevant. The answer will still be "the same", as long as you transfer the same amount in each step.Even if I started out with a coffee pot full of coffee, and a cupful of cream. That answers kenmeer's question.

to answer KE's question more fully: yes, it's true that typically there might be less coffee in the second teaspoonful. But any coffee in the second spoonful is exactly balanced by the cream left in the cup of mostly coffee. (which is basically what Mariner said)

kenmeer: my use of the word "inhomogeneous" was meant in the sense of "not uniform". ie I didn't stir the coffee after putting the cream in it. Thus in principle, it would be possible to put the first spoonful of cream in the coffee, and then take a second spoonful that completely misses the cream in the coffee, so that the second spoonful has only coffee in it. (thinking about this situation might make the answer clearer).

As for the assumptions: Usually in these kinds of problems one is meant to make assumptions so as to get to the important (and maybe somewhat pretty, too) kernel of reasoning. Thus one has ideal solutions, ideal fluids, frictionless surfaces (actually I put in comment #3 for this reason), "all metals are superconductors", zero air resistance, "all functions are analytic", "all series converge", spherical cows...

but more to the point, I remembered this one from reading an interview with a famous Russian mathematician. I remember he called it the sort of problem traditionally given in Russia to little kids to play with "before their minds have been polluted by school mathematics." or some phrase like that. So I'm pretty sure that he meant to keep complications out of it.

Let me see if I can find the interview.

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WarrsawPact
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Oh man, I was thinking whipped cream. Starbucks hath polluted my brain.

See, I was thinking, "Well the cream's going to rise to the top when you put it in the coffee. So when you pull your spoon out of the mix it's highly likely you'll end up with a higher volume of (whipped) cream than coffee."

Oh well.

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FiredrakeRAGE
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foliated said:
quote:
but more to the point, I remembered this one from reading an interview with a famous Russian mathematician. I remember he called it the sort of problem traditionally given in Russia to little kids to play with "before their minds have been polluted by school mathematics." or some phrase like that. So I'm pretty sure that he meant to keep complications out of it.
I think it has more to do with life experience than 'school mathematics'. When I think of a cup, I think of a coffee cup - relatively small compared to a spoon. With that in mind, it would be impossible to add the cream to the cofee without distributing it throughout the cup (in different densities).

However, if the cup is large enough so that it is possible for the cream to be added without causing issue with the far reaches of the coffee it would change the answer to the problem.

If you don't specifically think of 'coffee' as the stuff you drink out of a coffee cup every day the problem changes. So it's not 'school mathematics' that makes the problem change, but 'experience in dealing with coffee' (of course non-starbucks coffee)

--Firedrake

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FiredrakeRAGE
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I just finished 'Pattern Recognition'. It was good, and the prose became significantly more fluid towards the middle/end of the book.

It was a good book, but not a great book. I found it significantly less enjoyable than most of Gibson's other work.

--Firedrake

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cperry
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Really? So which of his books would you recommend someone read first?
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KnightEnder
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Yes, PR got a lot easier to read once you got through the first of it. And what is wrong with Starbucks coffee? Stacy's just been made Assistant Manager, and they've been pretty good to us when we've needed it. Especially when Stacy just took the job as a part-time thing, and because she was spending so much drinking coffee there anyway.

KE

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FiredrakeRAGE
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cperry -

There's only ever one answer to that. Neuromancer, of course [Smile]

...and I'd recommend Cryptonomicon by Stephenson as well...

--Firedrake

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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
There's only ever one answer to that. Neuromancer, of course
Aye. 22 years old and it has aged very well indeed. I think one would have to go back to Bester's "The Stars My Destination" to find a stylistic ground-breaker so powerful and colorful that also holds up to passe-ing age.
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KnightEnder
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Looks like KL, SS, and possibly RickyB and kelcimer are up and posting at this late hour. 1 am here in Texas. I have AOL and you can invite people to chat if they have AIM, which is free. If anybody wants it so they can chat every now and then let me know and I will send it to you. Or you might be able to get it free online, either way. I think I am either KnightEnder or Endersshdw on AIM. It's been a while I'll have to check. I am definitely KnightEnder on AOL, and here of course. [Smile] Are there any other chat programs that are easier to use, or preferable for some other reason? Seems I used to have and ICQ name somewhere...

KE

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FiredrakeRAGE
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If you're running Windows, I would suggest looking up Trillian at http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/ Trillian is by far the best Chat program out there - it allows you to use AIM, ICQ, et al. all in one package.

Oh, and if you want to get AOL IM, you can download it from http://www.aim.com

--Firedrake

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Storm Saxon
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I am going to bed. Thanks for the offer, though.
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FiredrakeRAGE
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Sleep is for the weak.

--Firedrake

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cperry
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Neuromancer is 22 years old? Really, I had no idea! Where in the world have I been? Argh.

I did pick up Cryptonomicon once and wondered if I had enough time and energy to make it through, so I bailed. Next time I'm in a bookstore, though, I will pick up those and Stars My Destination. Thank you all very much for the recs. Others gladly accepted!

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cperry
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In fact, I'm going to take this conversation elsewhere. See the new thread....
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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
I think I am either KnightEnder or Endersshdw on AIM. It's been a while I'll have to check. I am definitely KnightEnder on AOL, and here of course. [Smile] Are there any other chat programs that are easier to use, or preferable for some other reason? Seems I used to have and ICQ name somewhere...
Station # KCNL. Radio C-NILE. I am your midnight mumbler... KnightEnder... or Endershadow... or.. I USED to know my handle. Anyway, creepsters and groaners, the nursing home's got new wax on the floors and the night shift nursy's loose like a goose in the Ex-Lax dispensary... so grab your walkers and boogie down!!!!

That's just too funny, KE. Who am I? Parlor games for Alzheimer patients: I'm thinking of a name with YOUR name on it. Who ARE you?

Here in Washington, it were only 11 AM last night. I don't do chat. It's hardly faster than standard posting or email, and IRQ software is generally packed with surveillance bugs. Just click my email icon to post me personal...

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FiredrakeRAGE
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kenmeer livermaile said:
quote:
...and IRQ software is generally packed with surveillance bugs.
Trillian also has built in crypto (for use with AIM)

--Firedrake

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KnightEnder
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KL, lol [Big Grin] You can call me KE or you can call me...

Sorry, I should have realized you wouldn't want to chat. What the hell else could you have to say? [Wink]

KE (I'm sure)

[ February 17, 2005, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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KnightEnder
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Just watched "Tilt" the poker show on ESPN, it is pretty good so far. Tonight's episode reminded me of something I read in Amarillo Slims book. He was told by his father;

"Someday some gent will come up to you with a sealed pack of playing cards and bet you he can make the Jack of Spades jump up out of that deck and spit coca-cola in your ear. Son, don't bet that man or sure enough you will wind up with a ear full of coke."

That is a homespun Texas way of saying "don't play another man's game". Which the kids on Tilt did tonight and paid the price. Eddie paid extra because he was sleeping with the Matador's daughter. She looks like she would be worth the ass kickin.

cperry started a thread on favorite books which brought up some of the famous authors that I just don't get. Do any of you find that there things that other people just love that you can't stand. A few of mine are:

Kurt Vonnegut, Tolkein and the Hobbits, Asimov (with the exceptiom of some of the Robot Chronicles), the Dune series, and the bands U2 & Rush.

I don't think Backstreet Boys or their ilk should count because they really haven't stood the test of time and they are easy to hate. (Although my wife and oldest son do love Justin Timberlake and whatever his band used to be called.) But, I'm talking about people or things that have stood the test of time.

KE

[ February 18, 2005, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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cperry
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Things I never "got":
Bette Midler (I feel guilty admitting this)
Dune
Moby Dick

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KnightEnder
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No, you are very brave cperry. I like Bette's duet with Mick Jagger, Beast of Burden, other than that I could take or leaver her. People act like I'm a communist (no offense Ev) when I say I don't like U2.

KE

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msquared
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I think Bette is a great performer. She can sing, act and do comedy. She does not take herself too seriously.

I do love U2. They have been consistant in making great music with a message that does not slap you over the head. I thougth that some of their mid-late 90's stuff was not as strong as thier early work or what they are doing now.

To remain this good and socially relavant after 20 plus years is amazing.

msquared

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aupton15
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Love my U2, but I wouldn't brand you a communist for not liking them. I find the more distinctive the sound, the easier it is to feel strongly about a band, either good or bad. I think that's why I've never liked Rush.
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cperry
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I like the idea of Bette, and I like some of her movies, but most of her songs...well, I just can't take 'em. Esp Wind Beneath My Wings. Run screaming from the room.

Have a friend who just doesn't get the whole U2 craze. They don't bother me.

Okay, here's something I'm going to be crucified for admitting: don't like the Beatles. Never have, even though I've tried. I just don't get it, and it makes me feel as if I must be missing a chromosome or something.

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kenmeer livermaile
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quote:
Okay, here's something I'm going to be crucified for admitting: don't like the Beatles. Never have, even though I've tried. I just don't get it, and it makes me feel as if I must be missing a chromosome or something.
Broader pop history context should make you feel better: a lot fo folks don't get COunt Basie or Benny Goodman, Lester Young or Bix Beiderbecke.

But in their day, they were IT.

20 years from now kids will be saying, "I don't GET Nirvana."

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msquared
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I DON'T get Nirvana.

msquared

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