w0w, here i am a johnny-come-lately... um, as much as i was amused by the "literature" discussion, i ill return to the original point of the thread.
I am a native Californian (i.e., i'm from CA and spend most of my time as far away as possible!) female and not quite at the much coveted insurance age of 25. i list my career as "starving poet" when i can, but most often work is Human Resources, at least before i got laid off and had to work at Papa Johns to pay for my way too expensive Mustang (which i would marry were it legal) I guess you guys can call me "pagan" by the general definition of the forum, although i also believe in Christ (as me somewhere else!) i am also a feminist who doesn't believe its rape if you got yourself drunk, that there ARE things that men do better (like move my furniture...<G> ) and that the sign of a mature man is the ability to let "his woman" do her thing without jelousy. i guess i'm also a "rational anarcist" who can't spell, i believe in the Pauper's Oath, madatory birth control, and legalizing drugs to a certain extent, so long as >I< don't have to do them! was there anything else? oh, yeah, and i love to play devil's advocate, and maybe at some point i will finish that psych degree
freedom to reproduce, yes, when you can afford it. i get tired of seeing 12 year olds pregnant. esp. when/if its rape, and their parents won't let thm abort, and so they go nine months hating this life inside them, and it ruins thier life. i don't think that there should be a LIMIT on how many kids you can have, just WHEN you can have them. and that it SHOULD be a situation where you have to go and get something so that you can counter the BC, so that it is an actual DECISION, not an accident. Posts: 1139 | Registered: Sep 2001
I registered a little while ago. I came across it while looking for some factual background on OSC.
I read the first two Ender books at a teenage-age (is that a word ?).Re-reading it recently (completly) and finding more to it than I ever thought possible, I wanted to know more about the writer.
Instead I got stuck in this forum.
The work of OSC made me realise how true a story can be, when seen within the boundries of that story. No matter how far-fetched, if it makes sense within its' framework, it is absolutly and wholly true and enjoyable.
Provided it is written properly.
I'm 26 years old, male, as a kid a liked to become a Dutch-reformed minister, than became an atheist, had a touch of spiritual insanity later on, now I think of myself as an agnostic who still searches for something more solid to believe in.
I am proudly and critically Dutch, I am a lost-soul-socialist and liberal, a republican (as in anti-monarchist, NO US-political affiliation intended). I work as an insurance intermediate, live in The Hague and, oh yes, I'm gay.
That probably makes me a minority of one.
The homosexuallity is what made me look into OSC. He's a supposed homofobic and I just couldn't believe it. Not from a man who writes as he does and with the implied messages I read into his works.
I no longer care about any supposed homofobia. He aces as a writer. Besides, I believe sexuallity is absolutly irrelevant.
But than again, I live in the only country in the world where it actually is. The land of the truely free, but also home of the not so brave.
I've been living with my Canadian partner for two years, we don't intent to marry just yet (if ever, except to get him my nationality), but it is nice to know we can. Family is very important to me, but we're to selfish to raise children. Instead, friends and relatives 'lend' us their children now and than. We get all the joys without the troubles.
I love the nit-picking debates this forum displays, and I admire the open honesty and tolerance of it.
I'd love to hear some true blooded red-neck comments to my on-line comming out. I may well be dissapointed though.
[This message has been edited by dutchuncle (edited December 14, 2001).]
This is really interesting... Some of the most interesting political and philosophical discussion I have ever had were with a friend of mine who would be 24 right now, was a proud Dutch liberal (liberal even by dutch definition)... and gay! I think he even works in something like insurance, perhaps banking.
Anway, what a small world. You may not be as small a minority as you think.
Hi all, Found the site a week-ish ago after reading about hatrack in the afterword in Shadow of the Hegemon. I'm 27, and very happily married. Politically I tend to be somewhat left-leaning, but really don't think I'm well enough informed on most issues to form good opinions. Looking to work on that. I studied Physics in school, and work as a Software Tester now, after avioding computers like the plague when I was in college.
Posts: 14 | Registered: Dec 2001
I found this site after completing the all the books in the Ender's Game Saga. I'm here to learn, listen, and talk to people who aren't concerned with living from girlfriend to girlfriend. I tend to be a moderate in political activities, however; I think for myself and I'm open to change if the results are better. As far as religion goes, "God is apparantly all in you head."
Actually Unforgiven, we don't care what your first name is. I know the first names of only a handfull of people here and have been here since almost the beginning. I know Ev's first name, but not kenuckians(or at least I do not remember it, I am sure I knew it at one time) or RedskullVW's. Now I figure I know Tom's, but that is just guessing.
One of the funniest things about handles here is the assumptions we make. I remember people being surprised when they found out I was a guy because they thought my handle was short for Miss quared. It actually comes from my initials as well, MM.
Been a while since I've posted here so I'm figuring the only folks that know me are the "old-timers".
I'm 33 and as my handle implies a veteran of Desert Shield/Storm. A lot of my politics lean towards liberal, but I don't like being labelled. I'm anti-abortion, but pro-choice. I'm pro-gun control and pro-2nd Amendment. I think George W. Bush is an idiot, but a good President. I could care less what Bill Clinton did with his cigars. As a President, I put him somewhere between Carter and Taft. I also think the designated hitter rule was the worst thing ever to happen to baseball. Go figure.
When I was a youngster in the Navy I was a Russian linguist and served on submarines, now I'm a PC support technician. I'm married and kidless and live in NJ. I went to college, but never finished. My wife is a social worker. She was the one that got me into OSC.
Anything else you want to know, just ask. Glad to know you.
It was suggested that I place some information about myself upon this thread and while I do not take great comfort in doing so, I will endeavor to meet the minimum expectations.
I am 40, born in Germany, moved to VA, I have a few degrees (which speaks for my knowledge but not my wisdom).
I like to travel and have traveled extensively, I enjoy history archeology, paleontology, hiking, campling, exploring (actually have gone exploring), and historical investigation (tied to the exploring). I enjoy science fiction if its good, if its bad, its like fast food. Filling for the moment but not very satisfying.
I also have had an eventful business career and now enjoy teaching in place of working (because teaching is very easy to me and I enjoy it so much I do not consider it work).
I'm a young, impressionable, idealistic, simplistic, but above all open-minded 17 eyar old (18 on Wed.). I don't know a lot of history (basically just what I've picked up and what I've learned in AP American History). I try not to be naive.
I'm not sure what my political alignments are, maybe a little right of center.
I like this board for two reasons: 1) the above statement. Still trying to figure things out and 2) I can always count on getting both sides of the story. I hate the media because I love to know what's going on (I have recently taken a special interest in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict) and they never tell me.
I'm a devout Christian (Southern Baptist), but I'm a devout Christian because I decided I want to be one, not because that's how I grew up (although I did--and I guess I still am ). So in the words of Kyle French, "at least I can think. I know a lot of religious wackos who can't think and only believe a thing because that was what they told them."
I'm a senior in highschool graduating as Valedictorian and heading to Vanderbilt in the fall to study Computer Engineering on a good chunk of scholarship and I plan to go to law school. But I don't pretend to know much, I can just make good grades. I'm working on that, though.
I enjoy reading more that writing; I'm a huge fan of anything Star Wars, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, or OSC; I love just about any kind of music and play about a dozen instruments, I've even danced in a pickup boy band; and, to quote D.C. Talk, I'm a "Jesus Freak."
I'll just warn you, I have more questions than opinions.
As always, to get a good understanding of me, just read Nathan's post Typical teenagers, thats what we are!
I cam to this board from hatrack, since I just started liking OSC.
I mainly came here for the Palestinians-Israeli conflict, but ended up enjoying almost all the discussions. Great way to learn, IMO.
I got involved in the Israeli Palestinian conflict (and in politcs in general) about a year ago. Which may surprise you, since I live in Israel! I acutally just ignored all the news until a year ago, when I started chatting away on forums (bad ones, not ornery).
I'm 16, make that 17 in two weeks (btw happy b-day Nathan).
I actually have no idea on most of my political views, since I just started learning politics, and switch my view every week or so (actually, I change my mind about everything every week!).
Currently, I just read "Anthem" by Ayn Rand, and am looking into objectovism (sp?). I find I agree with a lot of it, and am hoping it will finally be one consistent framework I can use to find answers to hard questions of life... (But I doubt it )
Anything else? Let's see, I play the piano, love classical music (once again, just beggining to listen to it), love reading, am studying a Martial Art (Ju Jitsu) and have been doing so for a little under a year (WOW).
I am dreading the day I have to join the Israeli army, because I would much prefer to just stay in school and keep learning (or better yet, go to university and keep learning).
second off, to both you and Elimis... we all still question. Robert Heinlein said it best (although i am paraphrasing) to stop learing is to stop growing and die. (that is supposed to be learning. this is my edit - and yet, learing has such a special quality there <EG> )
next...Elimis, i wish i knew what to say to you to make your life easier. But i can't even fix my own (smaller) problems - but if it makes you feel any better, i would almost have killed to enter the Navy, but i have nerve damage in my knees. maybe we can pretend that you are serving for me? different country and all, but...
third, who all here IS musical??? i play eight instruments myself, sing, and was a dancer (ballet and tap) when i was still able. who else, raise your hands
(edited because as usual i can't spell)
[This message has been edited by Denelian (edited May 12, 2002).]
I'm not sure if I'll stay or not, but so far this board seems pretty interesting.
Compared to most of you posters, I'm just a kid, but don't let that fool you. I have a deep passion for politics (I grew up reading the Perspective section) and debating with friends. I'm more of a Democrat than Republican, but I don't believe in totally siding with one political group (for example, I'm more pro-life than pro-choice).
I'm also a Protestant who really wants to become more devout. I grew up in a religious family, but only made a decision a few years back.
I enjoy reading, writing, as my name implies, I'm really interested in the Japanese language and culture.
(The name comes from a character in a role-playing game, which makes it easy for old friends to remember.)
I'm a just-turned-forty male, Canadian from Toronto. Married for fifteen years, 10 year old daughter.
I make my principal living as a General Manager, hospitallity- I run restaurants, bars, clubs etc. for those who own them but don't actually have a real clue as to how to make them go. The rest of my living is made through one of my passions, the game of poker, which I have been playing since the age of five. Both my wife and I are successful, semi-professional gamblers.
Aside from poker, I play just about any type of game going: role-playing, military simulation, political/strategic, backgammon, chess, go, paintball, computer versions of any of the above... Used to fence, (now I have gout, of all things.)
I read. Almost anything, history, military, political, but a lot of sf/fantasy which is how I got to here. I consider Mr. Card to be one of the most gifted English language writers still living. I write. Mostly sf/fantasy, mostly in spurts when uncommon discipline is exerted.
I help to run a Toronto literary sf/fantasy Con: Ad-Astra, though my involvement has lessened- now I mostly just conduct a single-malt whisky tasting, international beer tasting, and of course, the unofficial/official Ad-Astra poker game.
Politically, by bar stool liberals up here, I'm regarded as being slightly to the right of Ghengis Khan- many on this board might consider me a pacifist/socialist.
I believe in an individual's priveledge to freedom of choice, so long as those choices don't signifigantly harm others, or infringe upon their freedom of choice.
I don't believe in rights: only priveledges, which must be maintained, exercised and sometimes fought for.
I do not believe in any form of censorship for adults- period.
Anything written as fiction is literature- whether it's good literature or not is another matter...
I'm an agnostic. We are biological machines without, neccessarily, any purpose. When we die, we are merely meat, (probably.) What's important, is how we affect the lives of others, during and after our time. Fair is fair.
More than I intended, more than enough. If it's not enough for you, e-mail and you shall receive.
If you are passing through Toronto, e-mail me: I'll buy you a drink...or teach you poker...
I suppose I'm rather young for this forum....
I'm 19 years old, an anthropology/writing major at the University of Pittsburgh.
Politically I'm unaffiliated; I don't believe that real change can be affected through politics. I don't vote except in local elections (in which case I'll probably vote for a Green or a Democrat). Most people just think of me as an anarchist, which is true to the extent that the social/political vision I hold is for a world existing a narchos - without any overarching authority.
Religiously I'm an animist, which is to say I view the world and the community of life therein as a sacred entity of which humankind is an equally sacred part (it could also mean that I believe that the entire world is alive or that there are spirits who dwell in everything; both of these are true as well).
I don't believe in capitalism, profit, progress, salvation, heaven, the superiority of man over the rest of creation, or the superiority of our civilization over every other culture to appear on this planet.
I stumbled onto this forum a few weeks back and, desperate for intelligent discussion and debate, promptly registered. I look forward to arguing with you all.
For some reason introductions terrify me. More than anything I hate to be misrepresented, and perhaps I am afraid that I will say something that will be misunderstood, and permanently mis-label myself.
I was born three months late, and I have never caught up.
I was born while my parents were going to Brigham Young University; I am the first of seven children. My wife is also the first child of students who were the same university, and (in spite of being delivered by the same obstetrician who is now suing my dad) we met for the first time eight years ago in line at the BYU library. We are now living a few minutes drive from that university, with three very energetic boys in a tiny 2-bedroom townhome. My wife and I are both first children of first children of first children, and our first child has inherited all of our collective head-strength.
I am Human by race, Christian by religion, LDS by denomination, American by nationality, liberal in my politics, and traditionalist by culture. I tend to vote Republican in national elections and Democrat in local Utah elections. As a mormon I know more of my genealogy than most Americans do, and know just what strange blend of peoples beats through my heart. I am Danish, Anglo-Saxon, Celt, Norman, African Slave, Cherokee, German, Missouri Redneck and Mormon Pioneer. My ancestors owned each other before the American Civil War, and killed each other at the battle of Hastings. My Missouri Redneck ancestors probably persecuted my Mormon pioneer ancestors. One of these days I'll have to get a lawyer and sue myself.
My father worked for a large multinational corporation, so until I married, I never had the chance to put down roots. I lived in Detroit until I was 5 years old, then moved to Paris for six years, then Mexico City for seven years.
I attended a British/International school in Mexico City (Uniforms, O-levels, the whole deal) called "Greengates." I never remember seeing more than 4 or 5 kids from the same nationality in any class. Brits, Americans, Dutch, Israelis, Iranians, Koreans, Italians, Argentinean … we all spoke English and Spanish. Only the Israelis kept to themselves; everyone else mingled. Things were surprisingly non-tense between British and Argentinean students during the Falklands war. The students were cool to each other about nationality – only a few of the teachers would hate you because of your nationality or religion, and rub their bigotry in your face whenever they read something in the news that pissed them off.
One day my north-Irish history teacher, Mr. Smythe, bounded into the classroom and asked which students came from the greatest country in the world. All of us raised our hands. Then he asked: "Why do you believe that your country is the best in the world?" and pointed to me. I blurted something about the US protecting more of its citizens' civil rights. Smythe pointed to the next hand, and the litany began: – Great Britain is the best country in the world because we are the most educated. – Argentina is the best country in the world because we won the futbol cup. – America is the best country in the world because we develop the most important technology that everyone else in the world depends on. – Mexico is the best country in the world because we are the most macho.
Smythe was in high gear, practically dancing with amusement as he pointed to one student after another. Finally I realized that what he was asking was not "why is your country the best," but "why do you BELIEVE that your country is the best in the world." Something in my 12-year old head went click, and my hand shot up again.
"I * BELIEVE* that America is the greatest country in the world because that is what I have been taught to believe."
When I came to the USA at 17 years old, I had always thought of myself as American, but found to my surprise that I felt like a foreigner in my own country. The movie "Better Off Dead" came out while I was 17, living in Detroit, and honestly that show still sums up my feeling for American culture. You know the scene of a lovely blazing fireplace with Christmas music playing in the background – – then the camera pans back, and you see that the hearth is only an image on a TV set – then the camera pans back some more, and you see that the TV is sitting in the fireplace …
That's America to me, in a nutshell.
This is still my country, and I still think that it is the greatest country in the world. I could still give you a million answers for why I think that it is the greatest country in the world. I pity those that cannot do the same for their country.
I thank God for parents that taught me to love my own land.
P.S. I have never considered myself an animist, but I do believe that the entire world is alive. I believe in profit, salvation, heaven, and the superiority of man over the rest of creation.
I believe that heaven is a place that can include our world, and that hell is a state of mind.
I "believe" in capitalism in the same way that I "believe" in gravity and bowel movements; I acknowledge and deal with its existence.
In some respects, I believe that our civilization is superior to every other culture to appear on this planet. In other respects, our civilization may be inferior to every other. In my mind to say that X is better than Y is nonsensical unless you specify "better at what or for what." Every culture has its gifts, strengths, and weaknesses, and to close your eyes to beauty is to create a hell in heaven's despite.
Well, I do believe an introduction is in order, finally.
Dropped a little line briefly in the 'War Watch' forum, but here's the full deal.
I'm 24, married, white, of mainly Norwegian ancestry (with a hint of German, and the rest all Scandanavian mutt) Christian, non-denominational, though I was raised Seventh-Day Adventist and tend to revert back to that.
I work for the Idaho State Police in their IS department, making web-sites, patching WAY-outdated programs, and helping forge ahead in converting the rest of the U.S.'s law enforcement agencies over to information technologies that make sense.
My political awareness began only about a year ago, and still reflects the utter disdain I feel towards politics in general. I refused to vote until the last election and will probably continue simply as a last ditch effort to curb the stupidity going on in this day and age. Not that I have any REAL hope of that, but I have to try.
I'm a writer, reader, theatre-lover, ex-video-maker, film lover, novice businessman (network marketing), observer, learner, idealist, conservative with a bit of a liberal streak, ex-English-major college dropout, computer gamer, people lover, listener, Star Wars geek, Star Trek hater (with the exception of TNG seasons 3-5), and for a short time at least, a fan of Pete's
Came here from Hatrack, just like most of the others here, I think. :-) OSC r00lz for the most part, but has made a stinker or two. That's it.
I am a 38 years old American citizen, born and raised in Israel. I was born to a secular family. These days I am a practicing orthodox Jew. Married, two children.
Favorite Sci-Fi authors that affected my thinking on moral issues (in chronological order): Ayn Rand, Issac Asimov, Robert A. Heinlein, Richard Bach and Orson Scott Card.
Other authors I like: Ursula LeGuin, Zena henderson, Cordwainer Smith I like some of: Larry Niven's writing
Non finction: Douglas Hofstadter, Stephen Wolfram.
I came here from hatrack, stayed because of the interesting conversation, and because I couldn't figure why someone as bright and honest as LetterRip was spouting Palestinian Propaganda (see separate thread).
But I want to get to know the people here first. I also have to think about what I want to say a little bit because some of it should not be made public unless it was as fiction.
I wonder does OSC ever visit these forums?
Pete, I also hate introductions, and I value my privacy. But when I saw the introduction from Elimis, I figured I had to introduce myself (somewhat) before I respond on this thread. So much of what he writes in his introduction reminds me of myself at 17!
"Jonathan Livingston" Seagull.
[This message has been edited by seagull (edited July 28, 2002).]
I believe that fiction authors have godlike absolute power over their characters (Even atheists and skeptics should be able to agree with that without invalidating their core belief systems). What makes authors interesting to me is what they choose to do with that power.
Ayn Rand uses that power very effectively to convey the message that being selfish is a good thing. My parents both admired Ayn Rand. When I read her writings (I was 15 years old) they hit a chord within me too. I suspect that selfishness has been an integral part of my moral beliefs since then.
When I was 16, I was warned that reading Ayn Rand had a bad influence on young impressionable readers. I did not take these warnings seriously, I liked the writing and their message too much. With the years, I have found that Ayn Rand’s objectivism did not provide the “consistent framework I can use to find answers to hard questions of life” that I was looking for. Elimis, if you like Anthem half as much as I do, I still recommend that you read “Atlas Shrugged”. Her other two books “We the living” and “The fountainhead” were works in progress toward that masterpiece but are still good reading. As you read “Atlas Shrugged”, try to follow some of her minor characters: Eddie Willers, Cheryl Taggart and the “wet nurse”.
Ayn Rand is a cruel God. I have no problem, with the suffering of her heroes, it is necessary for the plot and for presenting the moral dilemmas she wants to address. What bothers me is that she chooses to kill all of her good honest characters that commit the crime of not being as brilliant as her heroes.
This is one of the reasons that I moved beyond “objectivism”. I think that authors like Robert A. Heinlein, Richard Bach and Orson Scott Card Present more interesting and human variations of the selfish theme that I like.
Some of the obscene sex in some of Heinlein’s books is a bad influence on impressionable readers (regardless of their age ). I still read it, but I didn’t like those parts.
I liked Richard Bach’s books especially “Illusions” and “The bridge across forever”. His later books get a little too mystical for my taste. I am not sure that he practices what he preaches. His personal life is not quite what the books would lead you to believe: see his Son’s book “Above the clouds” and an interview at http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/10931/103-4746098-1004631 “Leslie and I are no longer married.”
As for OSC, I love the Ender Game series (including the new ones) , Pastwatch and several others.
[This message has been edited by seagull (edited May 16, 2002).]
the only "obscene" sex i know of in any of RAH's work (and i'm pretty sure i've read it all) would be the incest - which if you look at it from HIS view, can be made to seem silly. i don't say i agree with this at all, and i doubt that RAH actually did either, i think that he was just trying to show what happens when a person is able to be completly and totally "free"
i still wouldn't have sex with my dad. and im straight so my sisters are out, no brothers, but i have a second cousin...
I liked Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead as fiction and enjoyed the provocative philosophical questions, but I agree that Rand does not provide a moral framework to live by! The fact that all of Rand's "heroic" characters are such utter clones of each other (smoking capitalist beautiful same freaking vocabulary same damned personality) reflects the poverty of her sympathetic imagination. Both in life and in fiction, Rand treated those who did not completely measure up to her standard of perfection as utterly damned.
The best piece I have ever read by Ayn Rand was actually a short essay, an epitaph to Marilyn Monroe. Other than the Wynand character in the Fountainhead, it's the only time you see Rand acknowledge the humanity of someone who was not quite perfect, and IMO, this epitaph is the one instance that Rand joins the human race.
And in that moment, reading that earth-shaking article, I'm glad to have her.
I liked Bach and Ayn Rand a great deal. She adds to my moral framework form an economic standpoint but I do question it at a personal level. I think it is part of a life long attempt to reconcile the dichotomy in each of us.
Ayn Rand, in my opinion, attempted to do so by eliminating one portion our dichotomy in place of reconciling it.