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Author Topic: Mmmm. Whaleburger...
The Drake
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Whaleburger

quote:
Japan has said it will double the number of whales it kills for scientific research, a move that was opposed by an IWC vote on Wednesday.

The chain of restaurants, on the island of Hokkaido, said the burgers were selling well. A spokeswoman said the timing of the new dish, coinciding with the annual meeting of the IWC in South Korea, was accidental.

But she said she hoped it would give more young people a chance to try whale, which was once commonplace on the menu, but has declined in popularity over the years.

All of Japan's whale meat comes from the 700 or so it is allowed to kill every year for research purposes.

Conservationists condemn this cull as unnecessary and unscientific.


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A. Alzabo
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quote:
All of Japan's whale meat comes from the 700 or so it is allowed to kill every year for research purposes.

Yeah, I do a lot of exhaustive cow research so I know how this is.
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halfhaggis
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Why is it okay to eat cows, but not whales?

Or, put another way - why is a whale's life considered by westerners to be more valuable than a cow's life?
Is there a reason other than cows out-numbering whales (and whales being endangered)?

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javelin
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Not that I'm aware of, halfhaggis.
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halfhaggis
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So if we had lots of whales, would westerners eat them?

We have lots of cockroaches. I see an untapped market.

On an aside, I really think ornery needs more of these banal debates.

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halfhaggis
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Not sure this has really hit debate status though - just banality
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The Drake
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Does it seem right that the world should deny the people of a country a food source that has traditionally been part of their diet?

Second, who are the Japanese fooling by calling it "scientific research"? Why can't they say, "We like eating whales. Please pass the soy sauce."

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halfhaggis
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quote:
who are the Japanese fooling by calling it "scientific research"? Why can't they say, "We like eating whales. Please pass the soy sauce."
700 whales for research purposes... Hmm... Perhaps it's research into novel ways of cooking whale meat (burgers for example). I totally believe in the sincerity of their assertion.
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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by halfhaggis:
Why is it okay to eat cows, but not whales?

Or, put another way - why is a whale's life considered by westerners to be more valuable than a cow's life?
Is there a reason other than cows out-numbering whales (and whales being endangered)?

To be honest, it's mainly just sentiment. Whales are big, whales are presumably rather smart, and whales have been hammered home as a symbol of our fragile environment for decades now. Hence, everyone wants to protect whales but nobody cares much about, say, some endangered and really ugly type of fish. However, since whales are also rather endangered, I don't really think it's a bad thing to cash in on sympathy in an attempt to keep them from being eaten. The emotional attachment is hypocritical, but at least it's aimed at preserving a genuinely endangered species.

Not like, say, our emotional and completely irrational reaction a lot of us have to the idea of people in some parts of the world eating dogs.

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FiredrakeRAGE
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Rallan -

Our response to dogs is emotional, but it is emotional for a reason. A live dog can be trained to be useful. A live cow can... well, can be alive, but that's about it.

--Firedrake

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cperry
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I think, also, there is the idea that we can much more easily breed and raise cows, while the environment for raising whales is a bit out of our control. A whale or two at Sea World doesn't satisfy. We like to think they're actually surviving out there (despite our best efforts to pollute the oceans). Our best control is limited harvesting.
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kenmeer livermaile
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There's also the sense of limitation that whales came to represent. Whales were like bison of the ocean a few centuries past -- too numerous to bother thinking of in terms of population or conservation.

The infinite ocean became decidedly finite in the 20th century, and whales, being the largest creature of the ocean's 'shrinking infinity', not to mention the largest mammals on the planet, period, came to symbolize an awful lot.

Now they symbolize creatures whose slaughter we can entirely do without, but yet are slaughtered still.

Me good friend and colleague, Long Tom Sylvarrh, said:

"Plus, I’ve saved a few whales, made a little trubble for the Buscheneys of the world, and recycled a **** pot of beer cans."

It wouldn't sound the same if he'd saved a few spotted owls or even flying squirrels. (Likewise, if one is going to recycle beer cans in an amount that is sufficiently, impressively vast, a **** pot is THE measuring container.

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drewmie
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I cringe at the "cute factor" that leads so many conservationists to be so unreasonable. Yes, we should try to help whales become more prevalent if we've largely decimated their species. But if a species is NOT endangered, I see little reason to impose bans.

Dogs may be useful and teachable, but they are also far too prevalent to give a rat's patoot about people eating some of them. We're killing them off regularly in pet pounds! IMO, bring on the dog burgers! At least their deaths will mean something. Hey! Maybe I can start a new franchise that sets up contracts with dog pounds: POUND BURGERS! Mmmmm, sounds tasty. It has that great double-meaning thing going. And throw in the cat fillet while we're at it.

If you're cringing, don't fool yourself into thinking its more than the "cute factor." We eat farm animals every day, but they are some of the ugliest, smelliest, stupidest creatures on the planet.

One more thing: even if a species is endanged, it makes NO sense to spend tens of thousands to save one, at the expense of investing in the many. There are those who cry over the one whale who happened to be beached near someone's home, and we spend ridiculous amounts of resources to save it. Pathetic. Get your heads out of your arses and make the cold, calculated, efficient decisions and investments that make the greatest difference for the species as a whole.

Lastly, I also find it pathetic that so many people concern themselves with caring for animals, but have such a disregard for all the preventable poverty, death, and disease among mankind. The day I give a darn about an unendangered species is the day we wipe such rampant suffering from the earth. There is more on television regarding African animals than the human crisis in Africa with AIDS, poverty, and tribal violence. Talk about screwed up priorities.

[ June 26, 2005, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

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halfhaggis
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Ok. What happened to the banality I had so carefully engineered into this thread?
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Digger
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"What happened to the banality I had so carefully engineered into this thread?"

I like whales.

They're big and swim in the ocean.

Sigh....

I wonder if they taste good on a bun?

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LoverOfJoy
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Help control the whale population...have your whale spade or neutered.
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halfhaggis
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That's better.

Marketing for whale burgers:

'Try our all new whale burgers! Certified 100% dolphin free!'

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Funean
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It's a whale of a tasty treat!
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The Drake
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whales swim in ocean

singing sweetly under waves

but taste like chicken

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Funean
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That's pure genius, Drake.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Chicken of the Sea. Ol' Charly Tuna's gonna be PISSED.

Human, I'm told, tastes like SPAM.

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thegreatgrundle
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Poster: Nuke the Whales!

Lisa: You don't really believe that, do you?

Nelson: I dunno. Gotta nuke something.

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Richard Dey
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Well, I've had whale -- and it don't taste like no chicken or Spam. It has the consistency and aroma of vulcanized rubber and tastes a little bit like overaged lamb liver.

They used to serve it at T Wharf in Boston as a temptation to get boys to run away to sea. That was the joke, anyway.

Here's my recipe:

while common onions sautee,

grind 1 lb of beef steak once, afterwards
grind 1 lb of whale steak thrice

Add to beef steak
1 egg
breadcrumbs
Worcestershire
salt and pepper

Fry in bacon fat the beef in a patty in the caramelized onions, and serve on a bun toasted in the onions
,
Place uncooked ground whalesteak in dog dish and serve to elkhounds -- at once.

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Digger
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"It has the consistency and aroma of vulcanized rubber and tastes a little bit like overaged lamb liver."

Shhhh! Now everyone's going to want some!

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ssci
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Just curious, how DO they dispose of the animals euthanized in animal shelters? I would not be surprised to find out they already end up in hot dogs.
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thegreatgrundle
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Well, if you're in PETA, you just throw them in the trash
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OpsanusTau
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quote:
Lastly, I also find it pathetic that so many people concern themselves with caring for animals, but have such a disregard for all the preventable poverty, death, and disease among mankind. The day I give a darn about an unendangered species is the day we wipe such rampant suffering from the earth. There is more on television regarding African animals than the human crisis in Africa with AIDS, poverty, and tribal violence. Talk about screwed up priorities.

This kind of shortsightedness makes me want to cry.
Yes, absolutely we should spend time trying to alleviate human suffering.
But thinking that we can alleviate human suffering in any kind of meaningful way while we continue to decimate populations, entire species, and ecosystems is...uninformed thought, I guess I want to say. It's just not a smart idea to spend all of our time and resources, and the time and resources of a lot of other species, on making things better for our own selves right now, without regard to what we're doing to everything else.

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Koner
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http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=whales_suck

I like Maddox' opinion on whales.

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OpsanusTau
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quote:
I like Maddox' opinion on whales.
I can't resist:
The Exploding Whale of Oregon.

Still funny, all these years later.
Watch the video!

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Funean
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quote:
However, everyone was covered with small particles of dead whale.
I find this unbearably funny. I *am* going to hell.

See you there, Ops! [Smile] (and all you others, out there giggling. You know who you are.)

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drewmie
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quote:
OpsanusTau wrote: It's just not a smart idea to spend all of our time and resources, and the time and resources of a lot of other species, on making things better for our own selves right now, without regard to what we're doing to everything else.
You'll be happy to know that I agree with you. I just think we need to worry about them MORE as ecosystems and species, and worry about them LESS as individual animals. We have far too many individual humans to worry about, and far too little resources to be spending millions on saving particular, individual sob-story whales. Let's spend our time and money on the big picture, or spend it on helping people.
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WarrsawPact
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I've never ceased to find that video amusing.

The first reaction was to the explosion... "Whoa, nice." You admire the red mist 'n' such. The standard male response to explosions ("cool")...

When the first visible pieces start falling, you go... "Oh no!" And then you start laughing. It really gets good when the reporter starts talking about people trying not to get killed by some of the bigger pieces, and then they show that car... ah.

The guy who edited that piece together at that news station deserves a nice prize. That was priceless.

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cperry
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"I just think we need to worry about them MORE as ecosystems and species, and worry about them LESS as individual animals."

I think we need to learn to think and act more consistently from a systems perspective. Better for all species involved.

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OpsanusTau
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quote:
You'll be happy to know that I agree with you.
I am happy, you're right.
I've grown accustomed to reading things that you write and, if I don't precisely agree, at least nodding my head and saying to myself, "Yes, that does make a certain amount of sense."
So I was startled when I thought you were taking a position that looked nonsensical to me.

But you're absolutely right - not much sense crying over a split whale when the current extinction rate on earth is between 1,000 and 10,000 times the normal background rate.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"There is more on television regarding African animals than the human crisis in Africa with AIDS, poverty, and tribal violence. Talk about screwed up priorities."

Kiddies learning about the Wonders of Nature in flat images radiated upon a screen want nice fluffy babies and brave strong mommies & daddies feeding/protecting them.

Images of starving children with swollen bellies and skeletal mommies with breats squeezed dry just don't make the Disney channel/PBS cut, although PBS is most likely of any TV station to do such documentary work.

"Place uncooked ground whalesteak in dog dish and serve to elkhounds -- at once."

So THAT'S the secret missing ingredient!

"The Exploding Whale of Oregon."

Long long ago, forced at pillow-point to 'tell us a STAW-REE!!!' by young whelps raised not on whale blubber nor euthanized dog food but on tater tots, Froot Loops and cheese zombies, I found sudden inspiration and told them the following as if it were a True Story. It works best rendered in cinemagraphic directions:

Calm day at sea. Aged sailor with crinkly face, bristly 'stache, Greek sailor's cap in small fishing dory, puffing pipe.

Frowns and puffs. Pipe is empty. Taps pipe on gunwhales.

(follow tapping sound fading as camera pans to water then cuts to underwater footage, going down, down....)

A whale, sliding through the greasy greyness 100 feet down. It slips past the camera amid noises of intense gastric activity that begin as the whale's abdominal flank passes the lens very closely. Camera slowly turns to follow as whale passes on. Image of tail slowly rowing, a fantastic, almost subsonic rumble, and a great expulsion (digital effects inserted here) of dozens of great wriggling bubbles which anally emerge then shoot toward the surface, camera following....

Thee dory, the fisherman, the pipe. He tamps the last few fibers of tobacco down into the bowl, grabs a stout wooden match from his vest pocket, and strikes it afire. Holding it to the pipe, he puffs nursingly...

Zoom out amid hissing bubbling sounds to see the water churn around the dory as big bubbles break open at the surface....

FIREBALL

News headlines: Fisherman Vanishes Mysteriously; Craft Debris Found; Apparent Explosion

Regarding species and ecosystems: we've placed ourselves at the helm of Terrean evolutionary alteration. We'd best learn how to steer.

I go now to watch funny video, having unreeled the one I've carried in my head for, lo, these many years...

...oops. Won't load. I keep my browser on a tight security leash. Oh well. Warsaw did an excellent job of "giving me the picture".

Folks gathered round in their station wagons to watch the whale get blown to smithereens, some of them big enough to smash a station wagon...

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Taps pipe on gunwhales."

Now THAT'S a triking typo, eh?

Gun whales.

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A. Alzabo
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Richard:
quote:
Well, I've had whale -- and it don't taste like no chicken or Spam. It has the consistency and aroma of vulcanized rubber and tastes a little bit like overaged lamb liver.


This fits with the descriptions of whale meat I've heard from expat Westerners in Japan. One described the flavor as: "Like tasting an oil slick". But if that's your thing...go for it!

If people really wanted to keep Japan from harvesting whales, they'd make up "Mad Whale Disease".

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ender wiggin
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Wildlife in Africa is doomed unless the situation improves for African people. War is very hard on animal populations, as Rwanda's gorillas found out. A starving family will not care about endangered species, and Ebola risk means little when facing starvation. If we care about Africa's animals, and we should, the only way to improve thier chances of survival is to stop the endemic warfare and starvation that currently plauge Africa.

So both goals (helping people + saving animals) are linked. It is not an either/or preposition.

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drewmie
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True ender. There is an undeniable symbiotic relationship that we should always keep in mind. However, if our motive for helping people is to preserve gorillas, our priorities are seriously screwed up.

But I agree with the idea that environmentalists need to think more practically about economic development as something that can HELP their cause, rather than usually considering it an enemy.

[ June 28, 2005, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

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OpsanusTau
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quote:
However, if our motive for helping people is to preserve gorillas, our priorities are seriously screwed up.
I imagine that you mean if our ONLY motive is to preserve gorillas.
Because, though of course I want to help the people in Rwanda for their own sake, I don't think there's anything wrong at all with having, as an added motivation, a desire to help people for the sake of the last remaining population of one of our nearest relatives.

I don't actually think that economic development in general is particularly helpful to either the environmentalist or the humanitarian cause. At least, not as it's currently practiced. Thoughtless development is terribly harmful to people and their environment.

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