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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » He didn't even LOOK Asian and/or muslim (Page 4)

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Author Topic: He didn't even LOOK Asian and/or muslim
Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
There may someday be a distinction between Israeli citizens and citizens of Palestine, but right now it's an imaginary -- and convenient -- distinction based purely on heritage.

Tom, that's not true. Palestinians have voted in a number of elections. That's a real, legal distinction. And the heritage distinction isn't "convenient" -- it's damned inconvenient for Israel, since that's the distinction that has been used to kill Israelis.
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TS Elliot
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Rereading this thread, a most definitive feeling of wry and sour comes to me:


quote:
Originally posted by FiredrakeRAGE:The idea behind the 'shoot-to-kill' policy (I hate that - when else do you shoot?)
such crap, you can shoot his legs, shoulder, hands .

quote:
Originally posted by Lady Starkiller:
It's a tragedy. It's a mistake. But we operate, all of us, on the best information that we have at the time.

It seems that the info the shooters had would've been pretty good to decide not to shoot.
quote:
Lady Starkiller: (..)Maybe this is just me talking - but if this person did, in fact, do something to cause any reasonable police officer to assume hostile intent
It IS just you talking, he didn't do ANYTHING to cause suspicion.
quote:
Originally posted by tshaw:
This whole thing sounds like a case of terminal stupidity on the Brazilian's part. If you wear a big puffy coat (...) possible bomb.

Doesn't that sound terribly stupid now?

quote:

OP by David Ricardo: Look, the British police made a catastrophic mistake. But at least, they owned up to it.
OP by Hannibal: its easy to own up to the mistake, because every body knows that they have made it


hear, hear

quote:

OP by David Ricardo: and are now pledging not to make the same mistake in the future.
OP by Hannibal: an empty promise they killed an innocent man, and they will make mistakes again, dont make them the tragic heroes or players in this story because they ****ed up greatly. i just cant stop thinking what whould have happned if we israelis made such mistake

quoted for thruth

quote:
Originally posted by Archer:
He could have chosen some place else to live.

Apperantly arch never tried to find housing in London

quote:
Archer:
1. He could have chosen to not wear a bulkly jacket that day.
2. He could have chosen to take the jacket off for a minute and the police could have seen there was no bomb underneath
3. He could have chosen to make several stops before going to the subway and the police would lose interest in him.

this is just what he did, imagine that!

quote:
Archer:He could have chosen to not take the subway.
yeah right, in London?? do you know how long buses take? On average 3 hours where tubes take one hour.

quote:
Archer:He could have chosen to not run from the police.
By George, waddaya know? He didn't run, he just sat down.

quote:
Archer:He could have chosen to run any place but onto the subway car which was the final act that made the policemen think he was a suicide bomber.
Didn't do that either!!
quote:
Archer:
If everything by chance had not fallen exactly as it did, he'd be alive today. That's crappy luck.

It's amazing how every single item on archs lists turned out to be not true! There was no luck involved in this, crappy or otherwise. Okay, maybe then just one:
He could have had the luck not to run into trigger happy incompetent police.
I'm with Hannibal on this one, but do realize that Israeli police might be better because of practice, not genetic disposition. And they made a lot of mistakes too, apperantly.

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TS Elliot
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quote:
Originally posted by Archer:
quote:
Originally posted by TS Elliot:
Yeah, like israelis and americans wouldn't do exactly the same thing were they in the Pals shoes. I think they would, unless they can only have big mouths when they have the technological advantage.

Well, when the americans were over-whelmingly out-gunned and fighting for their independence against Britain (which was the biggest military power in the world of its day), I don't recall Americans setting car bombs or blowing up malls, subways, and busses full of innocent civilians.

Maybe you read a different history book?

no no, I read the same one, where the americans, I mean Washington, won the revolution by throwing some tea in the harbor. This upset the Brits so much, they went all like "Oh dearie me, good golly miss Molly, well if you feel that strongly, here have your country then. We can't have you wasting good tea!"

Kiss my grits, Arch, you guys did all sorts of horrible things to the Brits (not to mention the Indians) even without the provocation of being occupied, which you never were. And that crap about the biggest military power, yeah maybe they were ... only not in that part of the world. Pretty convenient, eh?

And since the majority of Israelis voted to keep the situation of the occupation such as it is, you can hardly call them innocent, even if they weren't all in the army anyway. Same goes for americans. In case of the westbank etc.: YOU OCCUPIED THEIR LAND!!!!!! Bubba, no wonder they get mad. And also: YOU WOULD DO THE SAME THING!!!

[ August 20, 2005, 06:48 AM: Message edited by: TS Elliot ]

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Hannibal
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excuse me? didnt we just experience the majority of israel voting to change the situation?
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Athelstan
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Writing as someone who was born in London I would like to say that I am very sorry an innocent Brazilian was shot by our Security Services. Secrecy here is a way of life. We learn it as children. Our newspapers, on the other hand, will say anything and it usually changes from day to day. When anything happens here people normally say nothing. They will not even deny rumours. In the US, it seems to me, everyone speaks. Jurors at high profile cases seem to be writing books as they leave the court. This is a rarity here. We expect this case to be properly investigated and in due time a complete whitewash to be presented. We are still looking into Diana’s death and a conclusion is expected any year soon.

As far as George Washington is concerned I never regarded him as a terrorist. I believe he was wearing his uniform before the revolution (in fact that’s why he got the job) and he led a recognisable uniformed army. It was recognised as French from whom they obtained the blue uniforms.

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FiredrakeRAGE
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TS Elliot said:
quote:
Originally posted by FiredrakeRAGE:The idea behind the 'shoot-to-kill' policy (I hate that - when else do you shoot?)

such crap, you can shoot his legs, shoulder, hands .

...if the person is a direct enough threat that you are using deadly force, logic and regulation would require shots to the center of mass.

--Firedrake

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TS Elliot
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quote:
Originally posted by Hannibal:
excuse me? didnt we just experience the majority of israel voting to change the situation?

I was referring to the WestBANK not Gaza!
And Hannibal, sorry, but I've done some reading and it seems more like a tactical withdrawal to me. And a nasty one to me, since they destroy all the houses and maybe poison the land when leaving. if that aint scorched earth, then I haven't got sunburn.
Some numbers:
- 0,1 percent of Gazastrip inhabitants, jews, owned 20 percent of the land and 60 percent of the production capabilities?
Boy, I wouldn't wanna leave too!
- Palestinian control over borders and airport and seaport: ZERO?
- number of referenda about Gazastripping: ZERO?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hannibal, basically, I think I'm with you: go back to 1967 borders, put up a big fence, and be done with it. Of course it would be nicer to all get along without a fence, but hey.
But let's not kid ourselves that the gazastripping is a good thing for Palestinians, mostly or even a little done for their sake. We can act all optimistic and say it's a good thing, but then we would be just hoping for the best. Which is kosjer, true that.

[ August 21, 2005, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: TS Elliot ]

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TS Elliot
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quote:
Originally posted by Athelstan:
We are still looking into Diana’s death and a conclusion is expected any year soon.

LOL!
Damn, more competition for canadian! [Smile]

quote:
Originally posted by Athelstan:
As far as George Washington is concerned I never regarded him as a terrorist. I believe he was wearing his uniform before the revolution (in fact that’s why he got the job) and he led a recognisable uniformed army. It was recognised as French from whom they obtained the blue uniforms.

See how subversively those bleeding French frogs sneaked the honest standup american revolutionary into their own uniforms! Bet they made a fast buck too ... Maybe that's the French word for military victory? Selling someone your uniforms?
Or should we see it as something that started out so beautifully, (selling or giving them uniforms, and being one of the first to regcognize the usa) and has since then deteriorated?

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Hannibal
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TS Elliot:

"seems more like a tactical withdrawal to me"

ofcourse it is, we tried to communicate with the palestinians for years, they dont want to, so we decided to act unilaterally.
we destroy all the homes, the palestinians were not going to use them anyway - they are building dense population neighbourhoods instead.
we ARE LEAVING INTACT all the public buildings - schools, kiddenguardes, libraries, sport centers.
we also LEAVE intact, the greenhouses that were used and built by the gush katif inhabitants.

"maybe poison the land when leaving"
Is that what you think of us israelis? i am GREATLY dissapointed, i really dont know how to express it more heavilly then that

Some numbers:
- 0,1 percent of Gazastrip inhabitants, jews, owned 20 percent of the land and 60 percent of the production capabilities?

thats why nearly all of israel supports the pullout! for years we secular majority were held hostage buy a bunch of religious zealots, finally we kick them out.

" Palestinian control over borders and airport and seaport: ZERO?

thats right!, the palestinians ALLREADY had control on their borders and airspace during Arafats era, it is PROVEN that they used this thing to arm their terrorist organizations with superior weapons from abroad.
the palestinians have so much to worry about BEFORE such things - like reconstructing their country for instance. when they regain some shamblance of trust from us israelis they will get control of their airspace and naval ports

- number of referenda about Gazastripping: ZERO?"

i have no idea what you mean by that? but if you mean that we "harvested" and "stole" un-replanishable natural resources, then the answer is that we didnt. we harvested fish from the see, and grown food from the land. thats all.

"But let's not kid ourselves that the gazastripping is a good thing for Palestinians"

thats the best thing ever happned to them. do you realize that this is the first time in history, that a peace of territory will be completely governed by palestinians, for palestinians by palestinians.

now the ball is in their hands.... if they choose to build their country peacfully - great, slowly israel will withraw also from the west bank (its not easy to move 200,000 people) and slowly the palestinians will gain complete controll on more territory

if the palestinians continue to attack us - israel will retaliate in such a way, that they will return back to the stone age. (hmmm... even before that)

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