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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Just in: Jimmy Carter terrified of dying!

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Author Topic: Just in: Jimmy Carter terrified of dying!
KnightEnder
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Carter has just come out against abortion because he; "was never convinced that Jesus Christ would have approved of it". And he said democrats spend too much time defending it. He also said democrats lost the last election because they failed to connect with deeply religious people.

Just more proof of the correlation shown by the study done in the 70s; "The Closer to Death the More Likely to Become Born-Again". The study showed the closer people get to death, the more likely they are to become Christians. Either that, or getting old must make you really smart. Or maybe Jesus just prefers to talk to old people?

Can a rant against gays and or gay marriage be far behind? Maybe Carter is so old he thinks he's Zell Miller?

KE

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Adam Lassek
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Is there anybody here who actually cares what Jimmy Carter thinks?

Just curious.

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RoseAuthor
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KE: Your post was too simplisitic for you!.. Have you been drinking?

Carter has remain politically neutral for decades! That doesn't mean he was ever morally neutral. Surely you know that politicians aren't exactly forthright in their personal beliefs? Now that he doesn't stand to lose or gain, he can state his own personal beliefs.

Adam, NO.. I think few people care about what Carter thinks.

Maybe if we put a gun to a every wanna-be politician's head.. prior to election; or throw them in a foxhole in Iraq .. we might get something REAL out of them.. What do they REALLY believe in a crisis.. (or the realization of their own mortality).

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KnightEnder
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I might have had a vicodin or two. But it does strike me that a lot of people "find" religion when they near death. Just my observation.

KE

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TomDavidson
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Actually, I agree with Carter almost entirely. And for what it's worth, he's one of the few politicians whose opinions do matter to me. [Smile]
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Dagonee
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Further, Carter has described himself as "born again" for decades at least.

Just because he's changing his mind on one view doesn't make this a death bed conversion.

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EDanaII
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Carter has always been a "flip-floppy" nut. Just cause he's flipped now, don't mean he won't flop later. [Wink]
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Pete at Home
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I do care what Jimmy Carter thinks, but I don't change my views based on authority. I'd be interested to read his reasoning.

I agree that Democrats lost the last election for failure to connect with a certain culture of Americans, but I disagree that this was a "religious" class or that the reason was abortion. There are many left-wing religions out there that supported Kerry. I think the issue was same-sex marriage.

John Kerry and many other lead Democrats are gradually alienating the marriage culture. As KE and others on this forum have shown us, you don't have to be religious to believe that a child needs a mother and a father.

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Pete at Home
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I don't think it's fair to describe this as a flip flop. I don't recall Carter ever speaking out in favor of abortion, and he instituted the first major post-Roe executive restrictions on abortion, e.g. military insurance would not pay for it, etc. Bear in mind that he had a Democratic majority in the House and Senate, and no pro-life lobby to speak of ... unlike subsequent presidents, his actions against abortion had no visible political payoff.

Like KE said, he's "coming out" on abortion; this isn't a change in opinion. The language that KE cites suggests this is something he's sat on for some time.

His timing is very very interesting, don't you think?

[ November 05, 2005, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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Digger
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"Carter has remain politically neutral for decades! "

Carter is anything but politically neutral.

Also, he has been deeply religious for all of my living memory. Even while in office, his faith was a big part of his leadership style. Remember the "lust in my heart" quote?

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Pete at Home
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Absolutely, Digger. The only time I can recall Carter acting inconsistent with his own stated values was in defense of Chavez's election, and there, I'm persuaded that he was duped. Alternately, perhaps I and most of the Western media has been duped. (While much of the Western media support Chavez, even the supporting journalists have published enough facts to show the man's a monster and that his recent election was a sham).
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WarrsawPact
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Dagonee's right: Back in the 1976 presidentiual campaign, Carter came out as a born-again. Nothing new.
-=-=-=-=-
TomDavidson:
quote:
Actually, I agree with Carter almost entirely. And for what it's worth, he's one of the few politicians whose opinions do matter to me.
The same Jimmy Carter who couldn't find election fraud in Venezuela, when exit polls said one candidate would win by 18% and the tallied results said another candidate won by 18%? I mean, Wow, that was like six times the margin of error. Allegations of widespread violence and fraud? Not nearly so bad as the Republicans allegedly disenfranchising blacks-as-likely-Democrat-voters.
The same Jimmy Carter whose Carter Center couldn't bring itself to even comment on the Iraq election?
The same Jimmy Carter who said a few months before the Iraqi election, "I personally do not believe they're going to be ready for the election in January [...] because there's no security there."

The same Jimmy Carter that sat next to Michael Moore at the Democratic Convention?

The same Jimmy Carter who bravely led the talks to end North Korea's nuke program, but erm... it wasn't worth the paper on which it was printed?
Yes, how about this Jimmy Carter?
quote:
In 1994, President Clinton dispatched Carter to defuse an impending war with North Korea over that country's nuclear program. Again, Carter confused the foreign policy of the U.S. government with his own personal inclinations and conducted some free-lance diplomacy, this time on CNN. After meeting with Kim Il Sung, Carter went live on CNN International without telling the administration. His motive: Undermine the Clinton administration's efforts to impose U.N. sanctions on North Korea. Carter believed sanctions threatened the agreement he had worked out. By speaking directly to the world about the prospects for peace, he knowingly encouraged countries like Russia and China, which were resisting a sanctions regime. According to Brinkley, a Clinton Cabinet member referred to Carter as a "treasonous prick" for his behavior.
[...]

During the buildup to the Gulf War in 1990 and 1991, Carter unsuccessfully worked to undermine the foreign policy of America's democratically elected president, George Bush. Carter behaved as the Imperial Ex-President, conducting a guerrilla foreign policy operation that competed with the actual president's. What's disturbing about this behavior is not that Carter opposed war with Iraq. Many Democrats opposed going to war, and they worked within the American system to try to prevent a war that many predicted would be bloody (which it was, for Iraq). But Carter went further than merely lobbying Congress to oppose military action or speaking out in an effort to tilt popular opinion against the coming war. He used his status as a former president to engage in foreign policy, a deliberate effort to subvert the democratic process.

In November 1990, two months after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, Carter wrote a letter to the heads of state of the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. He urged the countries to drop their support for Bush's proposed military solution. Instead, as Douglas Brinkley outlines in The Unfinished Presidency, his glowing but not uncritical assessment of Carter's post-presidential years, Carter asked the countries to give "unequivocal support to an Arab League effort" for peace. (As Brinkley notes, Carter's anti-war position conflicted with the Carter Doctrine he had outlined as president: Any "attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such force will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force.") Right up to Bush's Jan. 15 deadline for war, Carter continued his shadow foreign policy campaign. On Jan. 10, he wrote the leaders of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Syria and asked them to oppose the impending military action. "I am distressed by the inability of either the international community or the Arab world to find a diplomatic solution to the Gulf crisis," he wrote. "I urge you to call publicly for a delay in the use of force while Arab leaders seek a peaceful solution to the crisis. You may have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets, and others fully supportive. Also, most Americans will welcome such a move." Former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft later accused Carter of violating the Logan Act, the law that prohibits American citizens from conducting unofficial foreign policy.

The same Jimmy Carter who signed a letter backing Kofi Annan amid a string of scandals?

quote:
"In the years he has held the position of secretary-general, he has distinguished himself by bringing the world community together after the terrorist attacks on September 11th," the statement said. "He has never failed to take a critical look at the UN to examine its weaknesses and recommend improvements."
[vomit]

Or how about this Jimmy Carter? Damn, I think he actually believes his own b.s.

[ November 05, 2005, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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Pete at Home
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WP, I didn't say that I agreed with him on everything, or even much. I said that he's morally consistent (except perhaps on Chavez). Nothing that you said disproves that.
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WarrsawPact
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The Chavez thing, as you admitted (perhaps), does prove that.

[ November 05, 2005, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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Digger
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My own perception of Carter depends heavily on which facet of Carter we're talking about. His moral facet, with Habitat for Humanity, his deeply held faith, and desire to perform acts of worth garner my respect and admiration. But, his leadership facet is deeply flawed. He is likely the world's worst worst negotiator, willing to see the good in everyone and ignore the bad. As such, he has been duped more times than I can count (Bresnev, Kim Jong Il, the Iranian hostage takers, and lately Chaves, just to name a few). His ability to misunderstand the motives and desires of his peers is unmatched in my experience.

So, I can agree or disagree with him freely depending on the context and the subject matter. This latest thought from him on abortion doesn't surprise me in the least. As Pete said, it's consistent with his prior moral positions. Even if I don't agree with him in substance on the issue, I think he's a smart guy for saying that we, as a nation, are too focused on this single point within our political discourse. And don't get me wrong - he is a very smart guy. He's just a smart guy who is a poor judge of people.

[ November 05, 2005, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Digger ]

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Richard Dey
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He recently lamented that he hadn't known enough about "3rd world people" when he was president.

I thought he worked for peanuts in Georgia some place [Wink] .

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Pete at Home
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quote:
He's just a smart guy who is a poor judge of people.
Amen to that. I strongly disagree with much of what he's said and done, but this world will be a poorer place without him.
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WarrsawPact
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It'd be a better place if he were merely rich, and not former President.
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Snowden
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I care what Carter thinks.
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TCB
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I'm not sure if people here are condemning Carter because they disagree with him or because he's an influential ex-president.

If it's the former, fine; but there's no need to criticize him for the latter. What kind of man would he be if he saw what he perceived as wrongdoings and just sat on his hands?

What does "unofficial foreign policy" even mean? The Senate, not Carter, has the authority to ratify treaties and declare war. Giving one's opinions to CNN is not foreign policy. Neither is writing letters to the leaders of Middle-Eastern countries.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by WarrsawPact:
The Chavez thing, as you admitted (perhaps), does prove that.

No. More likely it's another example of his naive optimism.
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Lewkowski
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"Just more proof of the correlation shown by the study done in the 70s; "The Closer to Death the More Likely to Become Born-Again". The study showed the closer people get to death, the more likely they are to become Christians. Either that, or getting old must make you really smart. Or maybe Jesus just prefers to talk to old people?"

Jesus knocks on everyone's door. Those busy trying to "get ahead" or "having fun" tend to not be listening.

Also with age comes wisdom.

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KnightEnder
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Lew, I'm not doing either. I'm listening, and I don't hear anything?

KE

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