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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Kansas school board ruling, ridicule, and reporting standards

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Author Topic: Kansas school board ruling, ridicule, and reporting standards
pickled shuttlecock
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Here's the beef:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9967813/

Essentially, Kansas public schools will now be teaching Intelligent Design.

Here's what really burns me, though. From the article:

quote:
The 6-4 vote was a victory for “intelligent design” advocates who helped draft the standards. Intelligent design holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.
That's not what ID holds, not at all. That's the first thing wrong with this statement. Second is that it divides everyone into two camps: "God created everything" and "God did nothing." And obviously "God did nothing" is what science shows.

Riiiight.

More:

quote:
Risking the kind of nationwide ridicule it faced six years ago, the Kansas Board of Education approved new public-school science standards Tuesday that cast doubt on the theory of evolution.
Oh, no! Don't cast doubt on the theory of evolution! WHERE IN THE WORLD WOULD WE BE IF ANYONE DOUBTED A SCIENTIFIC THEORY???

Given this kind of reporting - and thinking by many in the scientific establishment - is it any wonder that the victors are calling this "a great day for education" that "gets rid of a lot of dogma that’s being taught in the classroom?"

Dogma is what's widely believed in both sides of this debate. It drives me batty that nearly everybody involved is wrong.

Anyway, here's my personal philosophy: they can remove ID from the textbooks when they remove abiogenesis. Otherwise, give them each a page and correctly label each CONJECTURE in bold, capital letters.

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KidA
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oh please oh please oh please not this again anything but this i'll eat my vegetables i'll go to bed on time and not play doom 3 and pretend to be sleeping please you can throw my bike in the trash compactor and burn all my nascar t-shirts just please no more intelligent design debates or my heads gonna fall off blurp

[ November 08, 2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: KidA ]

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pickled shuttlecock
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Would you listen to Neil Diamond 24 hours a day? [Big Grin]
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KidA
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quote:
Would you listen to Neil Diamond 24 hours a day?
As long I don't have to hear "I'm a Believer." [Wink]
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Funean
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quote:
It drives me batty that nearly everybody involved is wrong.

Actually, this is my primary peeve about an awful lot of "public" issues, not just the odious ID/Evo debate.

They all natter and babble away, and they're all *wrong*, and arguing badly to boot, and then they're misquoted in the media, and then I have to go to work and hear the issue remangled there *too* and...

It causes me to hate my fellow man, and I have to go off and play something mind-numbing like Civ 3 for several hours.


edited to add: it's the "Heartlight" E.T. song that makes my brain explode and long for Neil Diamond's permanent silencing. I mean, gakh.

[ November 08, 2005, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: Funean ]

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KidA
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I don't see why we can't just have textbooks that reflect the general scientific consensus, and then let individual teachers address and confront whatever questions and doubts students may have. I have no problem with kids and teachers talking about God in a science class, as long as it isn't institutionalized and "required" or "banned" and standardized into a science curriculum.
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javelin
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quote:
Civ 3 for several hours.
Civ 4 rocks. Wonder why I've been posting less? [Wink]
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The Drake
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jav, I just started playing civ 4. We should try out the multiplayer feature. [Smile]
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scifibum
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"Red Red Wine" is worse
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EvanWeeks
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I would join in on some multiplayer Civ 4 action... play-by-email? [Smile]
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Adam Masterman
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Are the vast majority of ID opponents, most of whom simply point out that ID is not science and thus doesn't belong in the science classroom, are they "wrong"?

Adam

ps let the Kansas-ridiculin' begin. [Big Grin]

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cperry
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
"Red Red Wine" is worse

Neil Diamond sang "Red Red Wine"?
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vulture
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quote:
Originally posted by cperry:
quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
"Red Red Wine" is worse

Neil Diamond sang "Red Red Wine"?
Nope - it was UB40
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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by The Drake:
jav, I just started playing civ 4. We should try out the multiplayer feature. [Smile]

Sure, but just to warn you, I suck at these types of games - I love playing the features, and my tendency is to go for the non-warfare style wins - diplomatic, cultural, etc. - which is why I love this game [Smile]
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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
Are the vast majority of ID opponents, most of whom simply point out that ID is not science and thus doesn't belong in the science classroom, are they "wrong"?

Adam

ps let the Kansas-ridiculin' begin. [Big Grin]

If that was all they were saying, then no. But it's not, and a lot of the OTHER things being said ARE wrong. For example, any implication from either side, that "Evolution and ID are directly at odds", is wrong - and both sides make that implication.

That help?

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Adam Masterman
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I've never heard it from an ID opponent. The media may report it that way, but thats a different story. Nuanced arguments NEVER survive being reported in the media. Its alot easier to portray the debate as "evolution vs. ID" than what it really is. That said, I still haven't seen any scientists or ID opponents calling ID "false" or "incompatable", just "not science".

Adam

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JohnLocke
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In a local broadcast we were told that the KBoE took the word "natural" out of science. This is apparently what they meant:

quote:
In addition, the board rewrote the definition of science, so that it is no longer limited to the search for natural explanations of phenomena.

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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Masterman:
I've never heard it from an ID opponent. The media may report it that way, but thats a different story. Nuanced arguments NEVER survive being reported in the media. Its alot easier to portray the debate as "evolution vs. ID" than what it really is. That said, I still haven't seen any scientists or ID opponents calling ID "false" or "incompatable", just "not science".

Adam

A lot of the stuff from the media is editorials - and these do frame it as a debate of ID vs. evolution.

ID "scientists" aren't framing it that way, and "Evolution scientists" aren't either (as far as I know), but proponents/opponents of both sides are - and in general, it's the wacky of both sides that get the airtime. And they are both wrong.

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KidA
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vulture,

"Red Red Wine" was written by Neil Diamond and originally sang by him back in the 60's.

UB40 did a cover version.

Evolutionary mutation in action - right there.

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vulture
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quote:
Originally posted by KidA:
vulture,

"Red Red Wine" was written by Neil Diamond and originally sang by him back in the 60's.

UB40 did a cover version.

Evolutionary mutation in action - right there.

Well, we live and learn. Neil Diamond seems to be one of those guys who is cursed by cover versions of his songs becoming better known (to me, anyway [Big Grin] ) than his original versions. Although I can only think of 'Like a Hurricane' off the top of my head as another example, but I'm fairly sure I've come across a few others as well.

Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me that I'm confused again, and it wasn't him who did 'Like a Hurricane'...

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Vance
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Poor Kansas. The folks here would rather discuss Neil Diamond than their silliness. I wonder what was on the top 40 list during the Scopes Monkey Trial.

I'd rather listen to cats being romantic than hear Neil Diamond sing a note. [Smile]

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