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Author Topic: 2008 Elections
Joe Schmoe
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I'd second Drew's McCain/Powell ticket. I think they'd do a better job than most. [Big Grin]
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The Drake
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McCain lost me when he supported the current model of campaign finance reform, which I believe curtails free speech.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for him, depending on who else runs.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by drewmie:
quote:
Pete at Home: The reason that so many "moderates" support McCain is that this is what the press tells them that "moderates" are supposed to do.
Pete, I know you don't believe this, so I don't even know why you're saying it. Many of us love him because he is very principled, and never sides with the distasteful, extreme party base. And (heaven forbid), we actually follow issues and agree with his positions on many of them. Frankly, I don't know how you can be angry at Ev for assuming your motives are unworthy, while you're doing the same thing in the same thread to McCain supporters.
I'm not mad at Ev. I shouldn't post on here when I'm sleep-deprived. I misunderstood something and I've apologized several times. Now get off my back about it.

You've completely misconstrued what I said. I did not say anything bad about the motives of moderate McCain supporters.

I said they are misinformed by the media. Misinformed is not a motive. I supported McCain until I looked more closely and found that he didn't quite match his packaging.

I don't doubt that you and many others support McCain because you agree with his views, but I don't consider you a moderate. You're even more politically eccentric than I am. Your views probably fit McCain very nicely. I just know a lot of moderates who mistakenly think that McCain represents their views, and I used to be one of them. You probably don't consider me a moderate, either. So it goes -- at heart, most everyone is politically pre-Copernican.

As far as I know you are right about McCain being principled. But as far as I can tell, he's also more vain than Bush Jr. and Bill Clinton put together.

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LoverOfJoy
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quote:
Second, a McCain/Powell ticket would guarantee 16 years of Republican president, but would also guarantee a huge moderating realignment of the party.
How old will Powell be in 2024?
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RickyB
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In spirit? I think that man was an old man at 10.
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canadian
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He'll be 87 in 2024.
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canadian
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(the preceding answer brought to you by: Math! Delicious math)
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Pete at Home
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quote:
frankly, I don't know how you can be angry at Ev for assuming your motives are unworthy, while you're doing the same thing in the same thread to McCain supporters.
How can you preach to me about motive-reading, after you've just claimed to read my own motives to call me a hypocrite?

quote:
Originally posted by drewmie:
quote:
Pete at Home: The reason that so many "moderates" support McCain is that this is what the press tells them that "moderates" are supposed to do.
Pete, I know you don't believe this, so I don't even know why you're saying it.
I do believe it, because I used to support McCain as the moderate one, until I looked more closely at his speeches and positions. When I did, I felt angry and duped. I don't think there's some conspiracy to misrepresent McCain; they just aren't looking closely.

quote:
Second, a McCain/Powell ticket would guarantee 16 years of Republican president, but would also guarantee a huge moderating realignment of the party.
Yup. It would mean tossing out a lot of people that disagree with you. Like many lefty Democrats are trying to do with SSM -- drive out or silence the majority of Democrats that don't support ssm.

Few of McCain's views represent the mainstream. The fact that some of his views are left of center and some of his views are right of center, and some of them are off-center in a way that left or right does not capture or describe, does not make him a moderate. I concede that several of his actions have had a moderating effect in the senate. What he did with the filibuster blowup was sheer genius. He seems to be honest and he has style. I'm glad for you that you have a candidate that fits your views.

But most McCain supporters I've encountered aren't really aware of his views.

[ November 22, 2005, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

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drewmie
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quote:
Pete at Home wrote: How can you preach to me about motive-reading, after you've just claimed to read my own motives to call me a hypocrite?
I didn't call you a hypocrite, nor am I questioning your motives. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I'm questioning your assumptions regarding McCain supporters. Quite simply, I've had a very different experience than you. In my experience, McCain supporters are far more aware of the issues, and of their candidates' stands on those issues. I simply disagree with your opinion on many McCain supporters.

Secondly, for those who don't vote so much on particular issues, he represents the kind of honest, non-partisan leader many of them are hungry for. For some (myself not included), the individual issues are secondary to a sense that the President is a person we can trust, and someone we can feel comfortable to lead us from the bully pulpit. We want a President who can inspire us. Many people who think JFK gets too much credit don't understand this crucial Presidential role. Bush doesn't have a clue about it. He'd rather we just shutup, leave him alone, and let him do his thing.

[ November 22, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

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