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Author Topic: Airstrikes & al-Zawahri
Joe Schmoe
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quote:
Originally posted by WarrsawPact:
Quiet assassinations are much much more difficult. Arrest in that situation would be ridiculously difficult. It's this kind of cold-footed BS that made sure Clinton coudn't kill OBL despite several opportunities.

Bombs/missiles are easier than ever to aim and fire with a quick check on the coordinates. If you have a location, you can get the job done -- which is the important part.
If Hitler had been in France, and we had Tomahawks, we'd have tried to bomb him too.

I'm not convined what we did was "wrong." The primary problem I have with it is that it may not have been successful -- had it been successful, we wouldn't be sweating the collateral right now, would we? A secondary consideration is whether Bush made that call to Musharraf. If that call was made, then I'm not upset.

Couldn't disagree more. [Big Grin] To me, whether we got him or not is irrelevant as is whether Bush called Musharraf or not. If he had called, it would just mean they are both guilty rather than Bush alone.

The government knowingly bombed non-combatants. Thats unacceptable to me unless its the only/last resort. How would you feel if your friends/family were bombed because the government thought some wanted criminal happened in the neighborhood? Would that be acceptable collateral damage to you?

I really don't give a damn if its easier to bomb than send in a goon squad. Both can do the job, the difference is ones completely immoral to most people.

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flydye45
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quote:
PESHAWAR, Pakistan, Jan. 17 - The provincial government said Tuesday that in addition to 18 civilians, four or five foreign militants were killed by the American airstrikes on the village of Damadola on Friday, but that their bodies were removed from the scene by companions. In all, 10 to 12 militants had been invited to a dinner in the village that night, it said.


Here
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flydye45
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Let's see. A bunch of lilly white spec force guys wander into the mountains to arrest some militants. I'll send your regards to the widows.
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WarrsawPact
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Joe Schmoe -

He's not just "some criminal."
I think my family would be rather understanding if our next door neighbor invited over Zawahiri -- how many people will otherwise die chasing him and his friends?

Bombing where there could be civilian casualties is not the last resort in a war. You avoid it where you can, but come on! Isn't the pattern clear as day? In Somalia to combatants would have unarmed women sit on top of them as they aimed their weapons at Americans, knowing we wouldn't fire on civvies. In Iraq, Saddam deliberately built his military and government infrastructure right into the most crowded civilian areas. He used human shields at all his palaces. Our enemies know that people like you can't see the forest for the trees on matters of strategic importance. What does Zawahiri hafta do to make his life worth that of a couple of civilians? Must he be putting the coordinates into a nuclear missile? Or is "last resort" something that passed by a while ago when this guy helped start a war with the US?

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RickyB
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"lilly white spec force guys"

Why lilly white? This is America, yo. We come in all shapes and colors [Big Grin]

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flydye45
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Do you think a bunch of "brothers" would do any better? Exactly how many Mid East guys do you think are on the special forces?
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WarrsawPact
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Well, we got at least one al Qaeda senior figure:

Abu Khabab al-Masri Killed in Pakistan Strike
al-Masri was al-Qaeda chief bomb maker and head of its WMD program


Forgive Bill's typos.

[ January 19, 2006, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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WarrsawPact
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... and nobody cares. C'mon, guys, another one (or more) bites the dust. Beating al Qaeda. Let's hear it for the good guys, eh?
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flydye45
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You mean justify what is obviously an illegal and ill considered enterprise? Yeah right. Twenty years from now we'll get admissions from either side that they were wrong, not before.
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WarrsawPact
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If we were indeed in contact with senor Pakistani officials, as I believe we were, would you stil have a problem with it?

And since we obviously targeted at least some of the right people, was it really so ill-considered?

[ January 19, 2006, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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flydye45
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I was being sarcastic. I am normally on your side of the aisle on this one...and still am. But I sometimes get the sense that if GWB signed a Single Sex Marriage Act, MoveOn and his other detractors would bitch about his handwriting. So something as "gray" as this getting a fair shake, not a chance.
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WarrsawPact
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Sorry flydye, but like I've said a few times recently: I don't pick up on text sarcasm -- I'll bite any bait that doesn't come with [/sarcasm] tags and a smilie. If I had looked up to your earlier posts, I would have known.

Hell, I'm not sure I even read your name before responding.

[ January 19, 2006, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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WarrsawPact
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Oh, man, the news keeps getting better...

quote:
al-Qaeda Commanders al-Magrabi and Habib killed in Damadola
Pakistani and Afghani al-Qaeda commanders killed in airstike along with Masri, the WMD chief


The final results of from the airstrike in the Pakistani border town of Damadola are now known. In addition to Abu Khabab al-Masri, who was al-Qaeda’s chief bomb maker, head of the WMD program, and former terror camp commander, two other al-Qaeda commanders were killed in the strike. ABC News confirms that Khalid Habib [or Khaled al-Harbi] and Abdul Rehman al Magrabi perished in the attack.

Khaled al-Harbi is al-Qaeda’s operational commander in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Al-Harbi splits duty in Afghanistan with Abd al Hadi Al Iraqi, and both are considered “two of [al-Qaeda’s] most able commanders”.

Abdul Rehman al Magrabi, a Moroccan, is thought to be al-Qaeda’s commander in Pakistan, and is said to have replaced Abu Hamza Rabia, who was killed in Pakistan on December 1, 2005.

According to a trusted source, the DNA tests are complete and the two other other “foreigners” killed are said to be al-Qaeda bodyguards. Ayman al-Zawahiri appears to have slipped the net.

Read the whole thing.

[ January 20, 2006, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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WarrsawPact
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Yeah yeah, I' not letting this story die...

The Counterterrorism Blog says, "Contrary to popular belief..."

quote:
No Outbreak of Anti-American Violence in Muslim World Since Pakistan Strike

Despite media stories about demonstrations in Pakistan against the U.S. strike, the fact is that there has been no outbreak of anti-American violence, or even a significant anti-American protest, in the Muslim world since the Pakistan strike last week. No American-owned facility, governmental or private in nature, has been bombed or damaged by protesters. To my knowledge (and I survey about 200 articles from sources worldwide daily), no American in those areas has been injured or even attacked. No group of Islamic clerics has issued a fatwa against us which would have any impact among Muslims (I discount the calls by individual clerics issued at this Friday's prayers, but I haven't seen any of those on the web). No American diplomat has been sent home from any Arab country, including from Pakistan. American aid workers, including U.S. military forces, working in the earthquake-ravaged Pak and Kashmir regions and in the tsunami-affected areas in Asia have not been kidnapped, attacked, or told to leave. And the governments or NGO's in those areas are still cashing our aid checks (who says money can't buy you love?). Moreover, none of these events happened in the period when it was most vulnerable to criticism, before we learned that the strike was justified by sound intelligence and so successful. So if the Muslim world hates us, if we are losing the "hearts and minds" battle (as asserted by former Clinton Administration NSC staffers Daniel Benjamin and Steven Simon) you can't prove it from any event in the Arab world this week. I don't put much stock in polls as long-term indicators of sentiment, but one Nielsen poll taken in late November for a nonprofit group in the U.S. showed significant higher levels of public support among Pakistanis for the U.S. as a result of our post-earthquake aid. If that turned around on the "Arab street" after the strike, we haven't seen it yet, and I doubt that we will now.


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WarrsawPact
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In case y'all ddn't hear, we may have killed as many as five senior al Qaeda in that Damadola airstrike. Incredible.
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flydye45
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Sorry, Warsaw. Too many have too much invested in the idiocy of Bush and Co. Successes don't play well on the threads.
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WarrsawPact
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Oh well. I'll just keep talking. I sincerely doubt that these posts are actually being ignored.

Saw this headline on my Google start page:
Bush says Pakistan strong ally; will visit in March

Color me unsurprised.

[ January 24, 2006, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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javelin
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I'm paying attention, WP [Smile]
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Adjudicator
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The funny thing is, when this news first broke there was all kinds of hand-wringing and questioning of American intelligence etc.

It looks like we really did get the bad guys after all. Go intelligence!

It would be really nice to get OBL and Zawahri to put an exclamation ppoint to this.

The Israeli's have shown that subjecting terrorist leaders to the same violence they inflict on others is a pretty good way to get them to pause and reflect if they really want to put a target on their foreheads. The situation here is obviously different, but picking off a few more more head bad guys might make a number of people stop and think about whether they really want to grow up to be a terrorist.

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The Drake
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How many times do you want to celebrate the same goal scored? [Smile]
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WarrsawPact
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...

In another victory, one of the original signatories of the 1998 Al Qaeda (/International Islamic Front) fatwa against the US and her allies, al Qaeda's local affiliate terrorist leader in Bangladesh... is believed to have been arrested in India.

quote:
India police are said to have arrested Abdur Rahman, the spiritual and ideological leader of terrorist groups Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) and Jagrata Muslim Janata Bangladesh (JMJB). The groups, which are often believed to be one of the same, espouse a radical Islamist ideology much like that of the Taliban of Afghanistan. They are believed to have launched the extensive bombing campaign in August of 2005, where it is said up to 400 bombs detonated across the nation.
We're "scoring goals" all over these guys.

[ January 24, 2006, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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FiredrakeRAGE
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Now all we need to do is pwn Bin Laden.

--Firedrake

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Everard
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"The Israeli's have shown that subjecting terrorist leaders to the same violence they inflict on others is a pretty good way to get them to pause and reflect if they really want to put a target on their foreheads."

I'm not sure I agree with that assessment of terrorism in Israel, Adjudicator.

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Adjudicator
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quote:
I'm not sure I agree with that assessment of terrorism in Israel, Adjudicator.
Fair enough. WIth terrorists it is generally difficult to determine whether a given strategy is working or not. As I recall, after Israel had killed several prominant terrorist leaders in retaliation for suicide bombing, the bombings decreased dramatically. This may very well be only perception, but I get the feeling that most of those slimebags are quite willing to send off distraught and vulnerable people to kill themselves, but are quite a bit less willing to become "martyrs" themselves.
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flydye45
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I have to agree with that perception. When the Israeli army was slogging through town after town, there were still bombers every day.

After they started decapitating the head men, suddenly things SEEMED to slow down. Was it the wall? Were security procedures also ramped up? Or were the bad guys spending a lot more time trying to keep hidden. Just the lack of sleep is worth the political "fallout".

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