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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Self Made Man: One Woman's Journey

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Author Topic: Self Made Man: One Woman's Journey
flydye45
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As everyone on this forum knows, I eschew controversy [Roll Eyes]

So it is with some trepedation that I offer a book I recently became aware of by Norah Vincent "Self Made Man: One Woman's Journey into Manhood and Back". In it, Ms. Vincent dressed herself up as a reasonably attractive man and tried life. Just the premise of such a book has me ordering it from the library.

Instapundit had a quote:
quote:

Bisexuals know that hurt gets inflicted by both sexes in equal measure if not always by the same means. But for these women -- who had never dated other women, and thus never been romantically hurt by them -- men as a subspecies, not the particular men with whom they had been involved, were to blame for the wreck of a relationship and the psychic damage it had done to them.

It's hardly surprising, then, that in this atmosphere, as a single man dating women, I often felt attacked, judged, onthe defensive. Whereas with the men I met and befriended as Ned there was a a presumption of innocence -- that is, you're a good guy until you prove otherwise -- with women there was quite often a presumption of guilt: you're a cad like every other guy until you prove otherwise.

"Pass my test and then we'll see if you're worthy of me" was the implicit message coming across the table at me. And this from women who had demonstrably little to offer. "Be lighthearted," they said, though buoyant as lead zeppelins themselves. "Be kind," they insisted in the harshest of tones. "Don't be like the others," they implied, while having virtually condemned me as such before hand.


With a quote like that, how could I resist? Anybody read it, have comments, intrigued by the premise etc?
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Eric
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Damn, I'm already in the middle of two books with little time to read. Now I may have to get this one.

I've often found women to be more suspicious and/or judgmental of others than men generally tend to be, and I think this quote sums it up:

quote:
that is, you're a good guy until you prove otherwise

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flydye45
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I wanted to throw in one caveat. My sister and I have a relationship with my dad and stepmom. I'll sit there and have a great visit with her. She, later, will go on and on about a variety of acts of incivility she saw.

Perhaps I am insensitive. Perhaps many men are. Perhaps she is measuring the relationship by a feminine yardstick. Maybe women are nuts. I look forward to the book with anticipation.

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javelin
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It does sound quite interesting.
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pickled shuttlecock
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Me too.

(See, javelin, this is how you catch up with Mr. Prolific.)

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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by pickled shuttlecock:
Me too.

(See, javelin, this is how you catch up with Mr. Prolific.)

That's how I did it? How embarrassing! [Cool]
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pickled shuttlecock
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I know!
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Charlemagne
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I think that most of this thread so far is catching up. [Wink] Something I might possibly e doing myself.

I think I will have to find that book myself. Many of the girls I know are very like that. Not all of them; not at all, but many. While I have not dated enough to really judge, when I talk to some girls I do get that feeling that I am being tested with everything I do and say.

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pickled shuttlecock
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Oh, I had a girlfriend once that actually let me know when I passed or failed. It was really, really annoying, and it didn't last long.
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witless chum
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Salon review by Andrew O'Hehir is here

I've not read either book or review. I think maybe the sex differences can be overstated. I know some guys who are just catty little monkeys, no two ways about it.

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Jesse
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I know some women who can bench twice their body weight, but we're talking about generalities here.

I've gone out with more than a few women who were of the opinion that it was my job to "prove" I wasn't like the others. I've never been willing to play those sort of games, so when I broke up with them their standard response was a nasty speech about how they were right not to trust me, since I was just another jerk who left them.

Self-unfufilling prophecy. It's not an entirely female activity, but this particular brand of it is definately more common among women.

I figured out a long time ago it's not my job to test people, I leave that to the one duly constituted authority.

Most women, however, see dating as "testing" a man, and become so wrapped up in what they know that they can't see what's in front of them.

I'm not saying men never do this, just that from my own experience women tend to do it more and to do it more conciously.

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flydye45
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As an experiment for the interested, try telling a woman that she is losing points to see the response. [Big Grin]

Edited to add: One of the funniest skits I heard was this comedian dealing with his girlfriend keeping him updated about his "points". When asked how one gained points, she said "You just lost a bunch more".

So the guy said "Is there any way to get my account shifted to your younger sister?"

Sorry, had to throw that in.

[ January 21, 2006, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: flydye45 ]

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canadian
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quote:
Originally posted by flydye45:
As an experiment for the interested, try telling a woman that she is losing points to see the response. [Big Grin]

That's the way I used to do it.

[Smile]

I hated dealing with the "tests", so I decided to make my own and let the girl know it up front.

First date:

Girl: "What are you smiling about?"

Me: "Oh, nothing."

Girl: "What?"

Me: "Well, you've lost a few points, but you're doing pretty good so far."

Girl: "Oh, so now I have to pass, or something?"

Me: "Of course! You think I just give this away for free?"

"So now you sell it?"

"Depends...what are you offering?"

"You're pretty high on yourself, aren't you?"

"I'm just not low on myself. Neither are you, I hope. I like a girl with confidence and self-respect."

"That's me."

"Hmmm..."

"What?"

"Go get me a drink and I'll let you know."


Works like a charm. As long as you don't forget to use some well-placed [Smile] 's and [Wink] 's.

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canadian
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Also: I'm going to read that book, too!
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flydye45
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Half way through. Chicks are nuts. Men are pigs. Strip clubs are gross. But then this isn't anything new except who is saying so.
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kelcimer
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Picked it up a few hours ago and have read chapters one and two. Doesn't suck. Have gotten various laughs out of it. Interesting stuff.
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Daruma28
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Ahhh canadian...so some of you canucks got game, eh?

lol

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Omega M.
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I'm not surprised women are this way. From the beginning of humanity if a woman got pregnant and the man left her she would have a hard time surviving, so it makes perfect evolutionary sense for women to be very suspicious of men. One would simply hope that society at large would reprimand women for acting this way, just as it reprimands men who go around hitting on every woman they see.
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canadian
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Geez...you'd think they'd be used to it by now....
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