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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Google agrees to censor results for China

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Author Topic: Google agrees to censor results for China
enochville
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How do you feel about this?
Google agrees to censor results

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The Drake
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I feel happy that I don't live in China.
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Digger
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China's a sovereign nation and Google is a private enterprise. It is perfectly within the rights of the Chinese government to set the terms for working within the country (or in this case, serving up search results). If Google wants to work there, they have to play by the Chinese's rules. It isn't their place to dictate terms to the Chinese government. For that matter, terms and conditions for other foreign enterprises operating within China generally go undisclosed and almost certainly reflect the same repressive government control of the marketplace. What's so special about Google? That's semi-rhetorical, of course.

That said, I deplore censorship and wish the Chinese government would make more substantial progress on reform. But the answer there is diplomacy, and free enterprise may be the best diplomacy of all.

[ January 25, 2006, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Digger ]

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Joe Schmoe
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at least google lets the users know their being censored with a message that states "your results are being filtered to comply with local law." Really, what more can they do? Microsoft, yahoo and many other companies are already complying with chinese laws as well. Its too a big a market for google to just pass up.
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javelin
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Good news? People in China have been working around these restrictions (with help from people out here) for many many years - and this won't change a thing.

Bad news? Google knows this, and yet is still going for the buck - I don't get their reasoning for this, unless it's a profit motif, and based on their previous decreed ethos, I'd find that a bit, well, lacking.

[ January 25, 2006, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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Jordan
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Perhaps a caveat?

"Don't be evil; don't be illegal."

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Jesse
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Assisting the Chinese in accesing the rest of the world is better than simply staying out until their government is willing to behave decently.

Think of all the nefarious memes they won't have the sense or the ability to filter.

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canadian
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A profit motif...

I think that's how I'll redecorate my den...

[Wink]

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Daruma28
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lol

Here's an example of what it may be like to use Google in China....

Don't Google This From Beijing

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Pelegius
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So much for google's ethos. Changing the world indeed.
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EDanaII
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@ Daruma28

[Thumbs up!]

<VOICE="Johnny Carson">

Funny, funny stuff! [Smile]

</VOICE>

Ed.

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Jesse
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Pelegius, how would the chinese have benefited from google not agreeing to censor their results?
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Pelegius
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Jesse, you must think I am nicer than I am. It is not about who would benefit, but about who would suffer. The Chinese people do not benefit from a lack of google any more than they do from a censored google, but the Chinese Communist Bureaucrats suffer from a stinging rebuke by an enormous, and growing, western business. The message is simple, authoritarianism and capitalism are not compatible; no economic liberalism without political liberalism.
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The Drake
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Maybe Google is secretly planning to slip stuff past the official filter. [Smile]
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johnson
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Pel--I am not sure I see how economic liberalism is incompatible with authoritarianism. I don't disagree, I just want to hear more thoughts.
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Richard Dey
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I, for one, don't see much difference between an authoritarian China and a US that would have the unmitigated gall to subpoena data from a private company without just cause. They are both overstepping their bounds.

If the US government is concerned with infiltrators, then defend the borders.

If the US government is concerned with pornographers, then give some cause as to why they are harmful.

If the US government is concerned with authoritarianism in China, stop making them rich.

The fact remains that the US government wants cheap labor, wants to tax pornography, and can't resist shopping at Wal-Mart.

If there's a bad guy in this mess, it is the US government which has become so greedy that it can't resist the temptation to play parent to its own people.

Wait a minute! When did the US government become not the people? Don't tell me it's the fault of Americans ... [Eek!] .

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Daruma28
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A ton of right wing bloggers got in on the fun and got busy with photoshop...

the hyperlinkopotamus

Another one from hyperlinkopatamus

A reader of Michelle Malkin

Sheepdog Blog

"See No Google!"

lol

This is funny too...

Googleing Google

quote:
It seems Google didn't do a good enough job in purging it's database after it's deal with China went through.

Although the "Google does not censor results for any search term" link is broken they seem to have made the classic mistake of leaving the cached version intact! Oops.

I for one welcome our new Chinese overlords and hope they punish Google for their insolence.



[ January 27, 2006, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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Pelegius
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johnson, you are right, it is only incompatible with totalitarianism, which, by its very nature, cannot be liberal in anyway.
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Richard Dey
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China has, apparently, a staff of 30,000 to monitor engine searches in China!

Rupert Murdoch made the same decision to keep some kind of tv satellite business in China.

Holocaust denial information is blocked by Google in Germany, by the way, and that includes revised data approved by Wiessenthal!

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Jesse
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Pelegius, China can't censor all subversive sites, because they don't actually know what may be subversive.

The people are better off with some information and some contact than with none.

[ January 27, 2006, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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Daruma28
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Agreed Jesse.

To me, this is like a leak springing in the dikes of freedom of information. Hopefully once it starts leaking all over the place, the 30,000 government censors get totally overwhelmed...

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Pelegius
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Richard, I am not surprised by Germany's actions, but I am sorry that they have thus acted. Holocaust denial is an excellent example of Mill's maxim on censorship "[it is wrong to censor an idea because]If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error."

Jesse, an uncensored Chinese-language google not approved by the Chinese government but accessible through various means, all of which are doubtless illegal in PRC, would be much perforable.

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Omega M.
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I'm not worried by this. Google has to make money if it's going to provide us of the free world with a search engine, and the company has obviously decided that it'll make money by giving China an attenuated search engine. As long as nothing is done to weaken Google for others, I don't see a need to get concerned about it.

I'm more mad that Magic: The Gathering now no longer has art with skulls and skeletons unless they can be easily airbrushed out, since the game is now sold in China and to get it approved by the government the company had to keep skulls and skeletons out of the art (they're very offensive in Chinese culture). So now all of us have to put up with a reduced range of art because of what China wants.

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RoseAuthor
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Microsoft makes a Chinese version of windows to accomodate the marketability of their product. If google wants to make their product marketable for China, they will create a suitable product.

How China chooses to rule their country is their business, not ours. (This isn't a human rights issue, no one is being exterminated, tortured, etc) If we don't like China's censorship, we can easily refuse to do business with them. (Of course, this would result in Wal-mart loosing billions of dollars.) [Smile]

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FiredrakeRAGE
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RoseAuthor -

China is one of our major direct competitors. The strength and management of their country is of vital importance to the United States.

--Firedrake

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canadian
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Geez...I just had a vision of a Free China.

Talk about economic hegemony.

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RoseAuthor
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FDR: Agreed, which is why I made jokes about the loss of billions, (though in a joking manner regarding WalMart) [Smile] their censorship is not effecting our economy unless we make it an issue by boycotting.

According to China, they are limiting offensive behavior and data in order to have a more civil country, (unlike the USA) I don't see that as a problem for the economical advancement of the US. Unless, of course, it actually works and makes the USA look less desireable to do buisness with. (I'm sure that our leaders' need to invade and westernize will not effect our economical growth [Wink] )

China's censorship is far less offensive to me than the obsessive need to westernize by envading, killing, destoying, etc.

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johnson
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Everything I've ever read about dealing with the Chinese government indicates that 40% of the money you pay in any dealing with the Chinese government is under the table. Bribes, pure and simple. These are not all boy scouts that we are talking about here.

[ January 31, 2006, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: johnson ]

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