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Author Topic: Alito - How did this happen?
Everard
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Wrong link, digger?

Anyrate, yes, one more breaking ranks would end the filibuster threat unless the northern women or some other republicans who still don't know what they are doing decide that more debate is needed. But the point is that Kerry and Kennedy are powerful enough within the party that might be able to persuade the people who can persaude the rest of the party to hold rank.

Personally, I really do feel more senatorial debate is needed. Alito worries me, and not becuase of the abortion issue, but because of his relationship to power... he doesn't appear to question it.

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Digger
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Yep - that's what I get for reading two stories at once. It's fixed now.
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Digger
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"But the point is that Kerry and Kennedy are powerful enough within the party that might be able to persuade the people who can persaude the rest of the party to hold rank."

I applaud your home-town loyalties, but everywhere I've ever travelled west of Boston, Kennedy is widely considered a joke.

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LinuxFreakus
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quote:
Originally posted by Digger:
"But the point is that Kerry and Kennedy are powerful enough within the party that might be able to persuade the people who can persaude the rest of the party to hold rank."

I applaud your home-town loyalties, but everywhere I've ever travelled west of Boston, Kennedy is widely considered a joke.

Pehaps a bit of wishful thinking? Even according to Faux News polls, Kennedy polls pretty well, when people were asked in a national poll if they had a favorable opinion 43% said yes... which is about where I'd expect it to be given the aparrent 50/50 split in the country between republicans/democrats (if the last two elections are any indicator). John Roberts only got 32% [Wink]

Edit: Sorry forgot the link, heh.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/poll_090105.pdf

[ January 27, 2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: LinuxFreakus ]

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The Drake
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Kennedy might be a joke. But he was a front-man for NCLB, so it isn't hard to think that he'll take another prominent role.

Many people responding to the Fox polls probably think that he is one of his brothers. [Wink]

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javelin
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So, Kennedy was still know half a year ago? Half a year after he lost the election? How, uhh, surprising?

The guy is a joke with everyone I know (outside of people here) - and believe it or not, everyone I know hates President Bush.

Old poll information is hardly good support for an argument of this type.

[ January 27, 2006, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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Digger
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Then Kennedy and Kerry have their moment to shine. I wager an impressive number of cyber-credits that the filibuster fails to stop even one measley cloture vote on Alito. Who's giving me odds?

Edited to add: Hey jav, alert Aerto - I may be about to add some bupkus to our hoard. [Wink]

[ January 27, 2006, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Digger ]

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Dave at Work
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quote:
javalin said:
So, Kennedy was still know half a year ago? Half a year after he lost the election? How, uhh, surprising?

Did you mean Kerry here? Personally I think that they are both jokes, but then I think that most politicians tied to a major party either are jokes or will eventually become jokes as their careers progress.

quote:
LinuxFreakus siad:
Pehaps a bit of wishful thinking? Even according to Faux News polls, Kennedy polls pretty well, when people were asked in a national poll if they had a favorable opinion 43% said yes... which is about where I'd expect it to be given the aparrent 50/50 split in the country between republicans/democrats (if the last two elections are any indicator). John Roberts only got 32% [Wink]

Most people would poll badly right after being tarred and feathered in the the national media. I would be intersted in what the polls say in about two years when he has been out of the media spotlight for a while.
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javelin
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Whoohoo! ("alert Aerto" - you crack me up)

[ January 27, 2006, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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Everard
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" applaud your home-town loyalties, but everywhere I've ever travelled west of Boston, Kennedy is widely considered a joke."

Not inside the beltway... the man gets more done in the senate then any other senator over the last 50 years.

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Digger
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I know I'm taunting mercilessly, and I hope it's being taken in the lighthearted spirit in which it's being offered. Think of it as good-natured ribbing ahead of a big game.

I got some good news via work this week which is putting me in a giddy mood. I'm also am having a bit of a work lull, which is allowing me to post more than usual. That, combined with the recent downturn in performance from my beloved Thrashers (especially against the Bruins this week) has me wanting to tweak Boston a bit.

So, nothing personal to anyone. I'm just enjoying a good show lately.

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Pelegius
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Think, in the U.S.,the Greens have a monopoly on integrity. This is partially caused by not having any power, which is why, in Germany, where the Greens have some power, they are more corrupt.

The history of U.S. politics in the late 20th and early 21st century has shown that Republicans are much more likely to engage is absurdly complex conspiracies, to do things like rig an election (Nixon, who would have won without it being rigged) or overthrow a Central American country (Reagan). Meanwhile, Democrats are more likely to be sleeping around.

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Jesse
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Even Kennedy has spoken out (today) against a filibuster.

If the Republicans had any sense, they would let Kerry, or whoever, filibuster, and not move for cloture until he's done talking.

Make someone ACTUALLY filibuster, intead of making it a technicality of a vote, and watch a career go down in flames. How long do you think Kerry could actually babble? 24-36 hours would be amazing.

He would wind up looking like an absolute ass, and Democrats would have to move for a vote.

This is why the whole "nuclear option" thing never made any sense to me, unless there is some arcane element of Senate rules and regulations that I'm missing.

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Jesse
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No they don't, Pelegius. Their canidate knowingly took cash from people the partys members consider very very nasty.
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Pelegius
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Elaborate.
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javelin
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I'm hearing the Mrs. Clinton said she'd support a filibuster.
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Jesse
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Pelegius, Nader took large sums from Republican organizations, Right To Life groups, Big Oil, and even the timber industry.

When he was called out on it on the Daily Show, he tried to make some bizarre argument that these folks supported his platform [Smile]

The Green Party is completely dead in the US as a result. They're seen even by radical Leftists largely as a front organization for those seeking to steal votes from the Left.

The two party system is a hell of a lot different than parlimentary government.

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flydye45
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As a Republican, I would be happy to contribute to the Green Party [Big Grin]
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Jesse
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Today, you'd be throwing your money away Flydye.
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Digger
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So where did all those 'yes' votes come from?
quote:
Republican and Democratic senators on a 72-25 vote agreed to end their debate, setting up a Tuesday morning vote on Alito's confirmation to replace retiring moderate Justice Sandra Day O'Connor


[ January 30, 2006, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Digger ]

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IrishTD
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@ Digger:

My guess would be that all Repubs there (I think I saw 53), the 7 D's from the "Gang of 14" and a few D's from red states all voted to end debate.

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The Drake
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I think that the Democrats wanted to see this vote happen before the State of the Union address. Look for it to figure prominently in the me-too State of the Union that follows the real one.
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Godot
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quote:
Originally posted by Pelegius:
Think, in the U.S.,the Greens have a monopoly on integrity. This is partially caused by not having any power, which is why, in Germany, where the Greens have some power, they are more corrupt.

Very good point!

The more power a party has, the more they try and exercise that power for their own best interest (and not their constituents).

Unless we can get public financing for our elections, the country I leave for my sons will be a travesty of the one the Founding Fathers began with such noble intent. I don't want my sons to live in a country (and a world) ruled by global corporations. I don't want my sons to live in a country where their "elected" officials care more for money than morality. And I certainly don't want my sons to live in a country where fear has so twisted and perverted our perception of the world that we gladly give up our rights and liberties for a false sense of security, but what is really a hairsbreadth from fascism.

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LoverOfJoy
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quote:
Think, in the U.S.,the Greens have a monopoly on integrity.
Weren't they the ones trading votes with dems in key states?
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javelin
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quote:
Very good point!
Well, it would be if it hadn't been thoroughly debunked several times over the next few posts... at least about the "integrity" of the Green party.

[ January 31, 2006, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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Dave at Work
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Alito Confirmed in a 58-42 vote.
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Everard
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I predict that in 20 years, we'll view Alito as someone who fights against the rights of most americans.

[ January 31, 2006, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Everard ]

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javelin
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Digger predicts the future!

Source

quote:
Originally posted by Digger:
My prediction: Confirmed, the vote will be close (less than 60 votes in favor), the cloture rules remain intact, but the filibuster is threatened by at least one Democrat who was not part of the 'gang of 14' (I had to distinguish myself from javelin and Aerto somehow...).

Amazing!

[ January 31, 2006, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: javelin ]

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Digger
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My bupkus runneth over. [Wink]
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Kent
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Happy day! Alito will save us all!
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FIJC
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quote:
"Digger predicts the future!"
Yes, well, Digger is actually one of the smart ones on this forum...
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javelin
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quote:
Originally posted by Everard:
I predict that in 20 years, we'll view Alito as someone who fights against the rights of most americans.

I'd take that bet. I'd suggest the concern about Alito will be that he's a federalist, and he is more liberal than many would like in interpreting the extent of government's powers.
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Digger
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Hey, thanks FIJC. [Smile] Right back at'cha.
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ThinkAboutIt
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A 58 to 42 vote.

Oh, how times have changed! You know Scalia received unanimous approval of the Senate! (http://www.oyez.org/oyez/resource/legal_entity/103/background)

Today the level of approval doesn't depend on qualifications but to a significant degree on who is replaced. Lots of lefties are concerned that Alito replaces O'Connor, expecting him to be to the right of her. (Of course lots of righties are certainly hoping that is true.)

At least (most of) the Democratic Senators had the brains not to filibuster.

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Jesse
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Nope, actually, a slim majority of the Democratic Senators went for the fillibuster.

Why not? They get to tell their base they "fought the good fight" in a couple hours the news cycle is taken over by the State of the Union.

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Eric
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Does anybody else find it amusing that, after all the agonized shrieking from the left, Alito's first decision splits with the right?
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LinuxFreakus
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quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Does anybody else find it amusing that, after all the agonized shrieking from the left, Alito's first decision splits with the right?

Of course he wants to give the appearance of being impartial. What better way than to kick it off with something like that?
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Eric
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So, your belief is that a supreme court justice will rule a certain way just to make a good impression? What does he care? It's not like he's got to run for reelection in four years.
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javelin
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Don't expect rationality, Eric - you'll be disappointed. [Smile]
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Everard
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Jav, was that necessary?

[ February 02, 2006, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Everard ]

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