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Author Topic: A religious UN?
Pete at Home
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4800194.stm

This is not a bad idea, even if that #$(*@# Zapatero is backing it.

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ngthagg
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I think it is a very . . . idealistic? . . . idea, (what ideas aren't? I can't think of a better word.) but one that has a lot of merit. Religion has been a tool of many evil causes, I think because there is little communication between religions. Even if it doesn't work, it is still worth pursuing.

ngthagg

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Pete at Home
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As long as they avoid impinging on each others' worship, I think this could be valuable for resolving issues that lead to hate crimes and religions ethnocides. Putting pressure on church leaders to denounce crimes by their followers. Organizing charity and disaster relief in a way that breaks down suspicion and builds good will between faiths.
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Pelegius
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What do you have against Sr Zapetero, Pete?
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Fel2.0
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I think a religious UN would be just as effective, responsible, and useful as the regular UN.
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Richard Dey
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You mean it would become the equivalent of a club for the clergy who get diplomatic immunity and their parking-tickets fixed, Fel2.0?

I think the idea of a religious UN is like setting a pile of poison ivy on fire. After it's infected everybody in breathing distance, however, it would turn to ashes. Maybe it's a good idea -- but not let's have the taxpayers paying for it!

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Pete at Home
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Of course taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it. Government money means government control. Then it ceases to be truly religious.
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flydye45
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As Islam has little to no seperation between church and state, how will this affect the organization?

Likewise, Christiantity has more organized hierarchies then it seems Islam does. Yes, I know. Christianity seems like a bag of cats at times, but Imans seem even more divided, at least from the outside. What organization that exists seems to come from strong bonds of Mosque and State (Saudi evangilizing Wahhabism, Iran's Theocracy). So how does what a random bunch of Imans decide impact their religion in the same way as, say, the rep from the Catholic Church or the head of the Church of Latter Day Saints?

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Pete at Home
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Good point! It clearly doesn't affect the religion in the same way.

But don't underestimate the hunger for legitimacy. If you had a fatwa from a group of Muslims clerics that had international attention, declaring that Bin Ladin and his followers were apostates or blasphemers, you'd see divisions among the fanatics. If prominent Muslim clerics declared that the triumphant display of the the burning twin towers was IDOLATROUS, again that word would have big effect.

Finally, and most obviously, clerics could declare that suicide bombings in Allah's name are NOT a form of martyrdom, but rather a form of HUMAN SACRIFICE, like the semitic pagans used to do before the Allah and his prophets taught them the better way.

Terrorism is nothing more than a cheap bloody means of getting publicity. With five simple words, a group of credible Muslim clerics could bring half of Bin Laden's support crashing down around his head:

Apostate
Idolater
Blasphemer
Human sacrifice

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flydye45
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"If you had a fatwa from a group of Muslims clerics that had international attention, declaring that Bin Ladin and his followers were apostates or blasphemers, you'd see divisions among the fanatics. If prominent Muslim clerics declared that the triumphant display of the the burning twin towers was IDOLATROUS, again that word would have big effect."


Some have. It hasn't. At least not particularly visible.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by flydye45:
"If you had a fatwa from a group of Muslims clerics that had international attention, declaring that Bin Ladin and his followers were apostates or blasphemers, you'd see divisions among the fanatics. If prominent Muslim clerics declared that the triumphant display of the the burning twin towers was IDOLATROUS, again that word would have big effect."


Some have. It hasn't. At least not particularly visible.

The statement has to be visible for the effect to be be visible. That's why I used the word "prominent."
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flydye45
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First, let's differentiate between prominent "here" as opposed to "there". Because of the regional quality of news, I don't hear when the Grand High Mufti gives a statement which condemns or extolls the radical rat bastards. But his words are definately heard "there".

And what little I've followed always has this or that "moderate" Muslim featured as "prominent".

So are we lying about who is or isn't prominent? Are they, in fact prominent and their words are being ignored? Are they stating these things "here" while not repeating them "there"?

Using my observations, limited though they are, "prominent" Muslim leaders have offered Fatwas. They have not had a discernable effect. They were visible enough for our media "here" to get the story.

Thus my statement.

A better question is, who has the juice over there to make a Fatwa very visible and heard? Has he made a statement? If he has, and we still have these headaches, then there is no one in the Islamic religious organization with which to "negotiate".

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