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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Readers' Choice from "News of the Weird"

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Author Topic: Readers' Choice from "News of the Weird"
johnson
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I don't know what to say.

"A February BBC News story, citing a local newspaper in Upper Nile state in Sudan, reported that village elders had required a Mr. Tombe, as punishment for having been caught having sex with a female goat, to pay a dowry to the goat's owner and to care for the nanny as if they were "married." (The story ran worldwide, with Australia's News Limited's Web site reporting it with a file photo of a goat, adorned with a black bar across its eyes, to protect its privacy.) [BBC News, 2-24-06]"

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Redskullvw
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13th century culture.

The more trivial news items I read about the islamic world, the more convinced I become that they are a completely alien form of humanity.

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Omega M.
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Well, that's certainly a strange rule. I'm not sure I would have thought of it myself; but it doesn't exploit anyone, so I don't see anything wrong with it. I'm sure Mr. Tombe will be sufficiently humiliated never to do that again.
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Pete at Home
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If the Nanny goat gets pregnant, will he be required to send "their" sons to the Madrassas, or will he have the goat stoned for "adultery?"

[Eek!]

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Pete at Home
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I guess in 14 years we can expect a wave of terrorist fauns from the Sudan.
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Eric
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It's no big deal...he can always just divorce the goat provided he proclaims three times in the presence of two other male Muslims that he's divorcing her.
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Eric
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quote:
...he can always just divorce the goat provided he proclaims three times in the presence of two other male Muslims that he's divorcing her.
Which conjures up an amusing scenario at work one day in the lunch room...

"Hey, Abdul? Ahmed? I need you two to help me out with something after work today..."

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Everard
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This is probably terrible timing considering the other thread, but it struck me as an amusing thought...even if not strictly true

Here's an example of marriage not being between a man and woman [Smile]

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The Drake
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Damn, it is a slippery slope!
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Wayward Son
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quote:
Here's an example of marriage not being between a man and woman [Smile]
Nice try, but it states "as if they were married."

This is the Moslem version of a "civil union." [Big Grin]

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sbkilb
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This may not be the only incidence. You can hide a lot under a burka.
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Pelegius
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Redskullvw, I am not sure that man-goat marriages are allowed in all parts of the Muslim world, better check before trying it.
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Pelegius
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Wait a minute, I don't think that Upper Nile is a predominately Muslim state, it is certainly in the South, which is largely Christian/ Animist.
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sbkilb
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On a serious note (if you can have one in this thread), public humiliation as a form of punishment does work. Anyone remember pillories? How about that American kid who got his ass switched in public for vandalism? Bet he never spray painted another car. Public humiliation and ridicule used to have a place in keeping the people in line in society as a form of self regulation. (arrrrgh! I am not saying this right! I'm playing that kazoo again.)
Now in this age of moral relativism it is impolite to judge any behavior as rude or unacceptable. People who say "That’s not acceptable behavior" are called Nazis or intolerant. Maybe this is a time (I can't believe I'm going to say this) Sharia law gets it right.

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Lisa M.
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I'm a big fan of social control.

It's really bad when you work retail.

Me: "Little boy, could you stop running headfirst into my display?"

Mom: "OMG HE'S JUST EXPRESSING HIMSELF!"

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KnightEnder
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He should have done a male goat, then they couldn't get married.

KE

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Funean
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quote:
I guess in 14 years we can expect a wave of terrorist fauns from the Sudan.
[Big Grin] !

Only if they're sent to one of those special "summer camps," instead of being put to work chewing tin cans or whatever. Darned idle teenagers!

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ngthagg
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Are dowries purely a cash thing, or might they be paid in, say, livestock?
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pickled shuttlecock
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He could give her a male goat, and then have her stoned for adultery.
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Pete at Home
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quote:
Originally posted by sbkilb:
On a serious note (if you can have one in this thread), public humiliation as a form of punishment does work. Anyone remember pillories? .... Maybe this is a time (I can't believe I'm going to say this) Sharia law gets it right.

I thought of that humilliation factor, and it's a valid point. I'm just not comfortable with what feels like a mockery of marriage, even though they probably didn't intend it that way.

I guess it's not quite like he showed up at town hall wanting to marry his goat in order to get free vetinary insurance.

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Cytania
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He got of lightly. If that had been biblical law then likely he and the goat would both be stoned to death.

The Old Testament is full of indictments on bestiality, with extreme penalties. None of the scant, vague language prohibiting homosexuality. I can only assume this must have been a big problem back then.

Old Testament also tends to assume the animal is equally guilty; "she fluttered her eyes at me and baa-ed your honour"!

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Omega M.
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa M.:

I'm a big fan of social control.

It's really bad when you work retail.

Me: "Little boy, could you stop running headfirst into my display?"

Mom: "OMG HE'S JUST EXPRESSING HIMSELF!"

Is this a true story?
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Lisa M.
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quote:
Originally posted by Omega M.:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa M.:

I'm a big fan of social control.

It's really bad when you work retail.

Me: "Little boy, could you stop running headfirst into my display?"

Mom: "OMG HE'S JUST EXPRESSING HIMSELF!"

Is this a true story?
It's a bit of an exaggeration, but some parents get mighty offended if you even suggest that their widdle darling might have done something inappropriate.

It just seems to me like no one is held socially accountable anymore. Like... you can only get in trouble with whoever has direct authority over you. If anyone else has an issue with what you're doing, then obviously that person is racist, closeminded, and/or oversensitive.

I think the threat of public humiliation would be good for a lot of people, but it just doesn't happen often enough in our society when it should.

Extreme example here, but a guy who date rapes a girl should not be able to BRAG about it to his buddies. It's unacceptable behavior, and should be treated as such.

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Pete at Home
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quote:
but a guy who date rapes a girl should not be able to BRAG about it to his buddies. It's unacceptable behavior, and should be treated as such.
Actually you might be able to string a lawsuit together against him on that, independent of the rape, for public disclosure of private facts, intentional infliction of severe emotional distress. And if you got the claim in, you'd probably be able to get the rape itself in as evidence (since he's admitting it), and a modern US jury would probably nail him.
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Lisa M.
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Okay, it was a bad example. So we should go with something that's not illegal.

What about, say, a young person flipping off an older person in a public place, say a mall, for walking slowly?

What about people talking on their cell phones while in line at the store, making their transaction take forever, and holding up the line?

What about when people say swear words loudly while surrounded by children?

You can't convince me that these are socially acceptable behaviors, but no one acts like they're unacceptable - most of the time, no one says anything to the offending member of society.

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Pete at Home
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Actually, I've seen people get rebuked for exactly those behaviors, and for stuff like a mom berating her 5 year old child and calling the kid "stupid" repeatedly.

I've found that if I hold my mouth just right, I can make a loud cutting remark without letting anyone know it's me. In Reno, two guys were brawling on a public street, and not wanting to actually get punched, I looked the other way and yelled at them to, well, get a room and continue their love play in private. Then of course like everyone else I looked to figure out who had said it. The brawlers got up, mortified and embarrassed, and left, and the crowd broke out in a cheer [Big Grin]

Since then I've used the same trick on other public misbehavers. I find that the criticism is more effective when they can't figure out who it's coming from. Strong male voice from indefinite location.

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Mormegil
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quote:
The Old Testament is full of indictments on bestiality, with extreme penalties. None of the scant, vague language prohibiting homosexuality.
On the contrary, bestiality and homosexuality are prohibited in the exact same passage:

Leviticus 18:22-23

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion."

I leave it to you to decide whether "abomination" is scant and vague while "perversion" is a full indictment. They both seem pretty forceful to me.

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Pete at Home
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Perverse references (that describe a specified act)

Num. 22: 32 (Balaam smiting his ass to follow a gentile king against Israel)

1 Sam. 20: 30 Saul calls Jonathan perverse for saving David's life

2 Sam. 19: 19 David calls someone perverse for insulting him.

Job 9: 20
Job: If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.

Prov. 14: 2 Anyone who despises God (and does not fear God) is perverse.

Prov. 23: 33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.

Ezek. 9: 9 Those that say that God doesn't see, or has abandoned us, are perverse.

Matt. 17: 17; Luke 9: 41
Jesus calls his own disciples perverse for being unable to cast out a devil.

Acts 20: 30 To draw away disciples is perverse

1 Tim. 6: 5 Persons who suppose that gain is godliness.


ABOMINATION references (when the cause is specified)

Gen. 43: 32
The Egyptians considered eating with Hebrews to be an Abomination.

Gen. 46: 34 every shepherd is an abomination unto the Egyptians.

Lev. 7: 18 Eating the Lord's sacrifice on the wrong day is an abomination.

Levi chapter 11: Among other things, eating shrimp, lobster, and catfish are an abomination.

Lev. 18: 22 Homosexual acts an abomination.


Deut. 7: 25 Precious metals removed from idols are an abomination.

I don't think that the term "abomination" or "perversion" seems that forceful, when you look at everything it's used for. Now when they threaten the death penalty for homosexual acts (Lev. 20: 13), or for adultery, or for breaking the sabbath, THAT sounds forceful to me. But it also sounds like part of the old law that Christians don't follow anymore.

As I see it, homosexual acts are excluded by the law against fornication (which Paul emphasizes applies to Christian gentiles), and in Jesus' repeated emphasis that marriage is the joining of man to woman.

I'm not sure that we get anywhere by telling Gays that their love-lives are as forbidden as Lobster Thermidore.

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