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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Sharia marriage counseling: "wife must sleep with other man, then you can reconcile"

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Author Topic: Sharia marriage counseling: "wife must sleep with other man, then you can reconcile"
Pete at Home
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12038469/

quote:
NEW DELHI - A Muslim couple in India has been told by local Islamic leaders to separate after the husband “divorced” his wife in his sleep, the Press Trust of India reported.

Sohela Ansari told friends that her husband, Aftab, had uttered the word “talaq,” or divorce, three times in his sleep, according to the report published in newspapers on Monday.

When local Islamic leaders heard of the sleep talking, they said Aftab’s words constituted a divorce under an Islamic procedure known as “triple talaq.” The couple, married for 11 years with three children, were told they had to split.

I've been married 11 years with three kids; I'd better watch what I say in my sleep! [Big Grin]

quote:
The religious leaders ruled that if the couple wanted to remarry they would have to wait at least 100 days. Sohela would also have to spend a night with another man and be divorced by him in turn.

The couple, who live in the eastern state of West Bengal, have refused to obey the order and the issue has been referred to a local family counseling center.

India’s minority Muslim population is governed by Islamic personal laws on issues such as marriage, divorce and property inheritance.

IIRC, Canada's implementing some Sharia laws for local Muslims. I wonder if they have this gem of court-mandated adultery as marriage counselling.
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Wayward Son
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quote:
I've been married 11 years with three kids; I'd better watch what I say in my sleep!
Duh. Just mutter "Valerie" three times in your sleep, and you'll be looking for an undertaker, not a divorce lawyer. [Big Grin]
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sbkilb
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And the only thing your wife will say is "How do I reload this damn thing?"

Ever notice someone can justify anythng in Sharia law?

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The Drake
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Why not? The ****es condone prostitution under Sharia law.

[edit: supposed to read Shiites, but I left out an i]

quote:
"The clerics issue fatwas condoning this practice that allows men to treat women like prostitutes. They take her for a short time and then he leaves her -- it's all up to him," she told the newspaper.

Sheik Adel Amir Tureihi, a Shiite cleric in Najaf, said the practice was designed to provide Muslims with a lawful outlet for natural sexual desires.

"People need sex just like they need food," he said. "Islam is a natural, organic religion."



[ March 27, 2006, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: The Drake ]

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Pete at Home
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Drake! Link?
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Eric
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Pete --

It's described pretty well in Robert Spencer's "Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam". The doctrine is explained:
quote:
When a free man has pronounced a threefold divorce, it is unlawful for him to remarry the divorced wife until she has married another husband in a valid marriage and the new husband has copulated with her.
Spencer claims:
quote:
This has given rise to the phenomenon of "temporary husbands." After a husband has divorced his wife in a fit of pique, these men will "marry" the hapless divorcee for one night in order to allow her to return to her husband and family.

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Mike_W
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"IIRC, Canada's implementing some Sharia laws for local Muslims"

Um, no. Before anyone assumes we've gone off the deep end, this is emphatically not the case.

Arbitration and mediation through various religious authorities (Christian and Jewish were doing this as far as I know) was a voluntary alternative to using the courts for matters of marriage and property law in Ontario since the early 90s.

Muslims proposed using the same model. There was a heated public debate. And, the government of Ontario chose (wisely I think) to elimiate faith based arbitrations completely.

There is an advantage to a strict separation of Church and State. Ours is still evolving.

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The Drake
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original quote (UPI)

Another to enjoy - From the Grand Ayatollah Sistani's website.

quote:
§ Question : I know a virgin girl… can I do Mut`ah with her. By the way, she told me that her father will not mind that she has a boyfriend… so… she told me that her father accept that she has a boyfriend… can I do the Mut`ah with her?


§ Answer : Any relationship with girl with out legal marriage contract is haram and impermissible, while Mut`ah is permissible provided her guardian’s permission like her father or her grandfather and friendship between two sexes is not permissible.


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KnightEnder
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If the wife divorces the husband by talking in her sleep does the man get to remarry and sleep with another woman before going back to his wife? Sounds like a good idea to me.

KE

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Eric
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Sorry, KE...women don't enjoy the same rights of unilateral divorce that men do under sharia, so don't go run off to the nearest mosque and convert. [Wink]
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Eric
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Drake --

If you want some interesting tidbits about what's haram and what's halal, you can check out the Ask the Imam web page.

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Hannibal
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whats mutah?
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ngthagg
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I've noticed that most of the comments in this thread has been of the "nudge, nudge, chuckle, chuckle" variety. ie, what will those crazy Muslims do next?

However, is our society much different? We live under some pretty absurd laws and norms ourselves, except ours tend to be secular, rather than religious.

Sidenote: Does anyone pay attention to the Google ads at the bottom of the page? This time Google took references to Canada and marriage, and produced a link to a Toronto Psychologist who specializes in couples therapy. I've seen other ones equally unusual.

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Pete at Home
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In the US, an Illinois "Child Protection" agent charged a mother with child sexual abuse for nursing her 3 year old. And while after a newsflash and embarassment, the state gave the poor traumatized kid back to his mom, but no one in the fracking department lost their job for institutional child abuse. I'd say that's dumber than this Sharia court. But when that stuff happens in the US, we poke fun of it too.

OTOH we don't have courts contemplating murdering someone for changing religions (Afghanistan) or sentencing a woman to be gang-raped to punish her brother for being in the house of the people who were holding him prisoner after gang-raping him.

To be sure, we have our share of judges that seem little better than rape collaborators after the fact, like the Pennsylvania court that pretended that a crying a 14 year old girl can meaningfully "consent" to her legal guardian who uses extortion to force her to cooperate. But the Shariologists actually conspire with the atrocities.

So while they might not have a total monopoly on stupidity and bad judgment, they seem to have a controlling share of it.

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ngthagg
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My response was based on a feeling that the jokes would lead to intolerance which leads to discrimination, which clearly is an over-reaction. So please disregard the post.

ngthagg

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Pete at Home
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Your concern is warranted. But can you think of any circumstances under which discrimination would not be an overreaction?

Given the behavior of Sharia courts, and given the histories of US women who have had kids taken from them by husbans from Sharia countries, in violation of US laws, I think it would be in order to implement a discriminatory system that rings a flag when a male Iranian or Saudi is trying to bring a daughter back to the home country. I'd not let the daughter go without the clear consent of the mother.

If a country doesn't respect women's rights or international law with regard to child custody, then we need to deal with it as a pariah nation and double-check the situation with kids going back that way. I'm not willing to casually turn an American citizen over into slavery, in the name of tolerance and political correctness.

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ngthagg
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"Discrimination" such as you describe would indeed be valid, as discrimination to protect human rights isn't really what we mean by discrimination. (We don't say that Iranian or Saudi men can't take their daughters back to their country, we say that no one can take their daughter to a country where her rights would be abused.)

The discrimination I was thinking of was more the "muslim kid assaulted after school" type. This type could arise from humour intended to dehumanize Muslims. But as you pointed out, the jokes here were proportionate to the incident, and are not reserved for Sharia law, but would be applied to our own societal quirks when the issue arises.

ngthagg

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KnightEnder
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ngthagg,

Maybe we need a thread on when jokes are appropriate? A highly subjective discussion, I'd bet.

Or better, how much do jokes hurt. I have to admit, that though I champion anti-racism and ssm here, I've told racist jokes. I don't anymore, but I have. But then, so has Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy.

KE

[ March 28, 2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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Pete at Home
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ngthagg -- and I think your words here are highly appropriate, to remind us not to become too smug about the failings of others, or blind to our own. I also appreciate that you haven't been so heavy handed as to guilt trip those who were laughing at an exceptionally ridiculous application of law.
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Pete at Home
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Here's a good racist joke:

A construction worker arrives at work. His sympathetic co-workers sense that he is depressed, and call out to him, ask him what's wrong. After a sigh, he tells them:

"my poor wife ... she was so sick this morning, that I had to carry her downstairs to make me breakfast."

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Jesse
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Pete? How is that racist? Are construction workers a defined "race" now?

Sexist....you goof. You need to practice being an ist.

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Pete at Home
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[Big Grin]

I left the race content out, Jesse, but I'll give you a hint. Tell the joke to people of the prominent ethnic groups in the US, and see which ones don't realize that it's a joke.

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