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Author Topic: Red & Blue States: State of the Union
KnightEnder
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Red [Mad] & Blue [Frown] States: State of the Union

While watching the Special 20/20 program on the divide in America I heard something that I think sums up the differences in liberals and conservatives. The show said while detailing the Blue States; "They love America but hate its leaders." Then while detailing the Red States: "They love America and hate those who criticize its leaders." To bolster this opinion they had a real American red stater saying: "I don't think they (blue staters) realize that the president is the commander-in-chief and you must obey authority. I don't think they have the right to enjoy the freedom that people died for so they would have that right to protest."

Does anybody not see what is so horrifying about that statement? I don't think that this old man is representative of all conservatives but the fact that there is even a small percentage of people that think like he does spells trouble for the future of the United States.

Another Red; "I'm not asking them (homosexuals) to change, I'm asking them to come back into conformity."

"Churches are the secrete weapon...of the Republican party. The liberals have nothing like it to bring them together." (IMO he's right and that is what the Internet is for.)

Darrell Waltrip, Co-Leader, Franklin Fellowship (Nascar Driver)
"I thank God for George Bush...He has gone out on a limb to keep this country grounded in Biblical principle." He then went off on flag burning and prayer in school.

How can a country built on freedom of religion be grounded in ONE religions teachings?

The Reds are all hat and no cattle. They mouth the great things about America but they don't live it. Freedom of religion? Hell yeah, as long as you believe and worship the same as they do! The Flag stands for freedom? Hell yeah, as long as you don't exercise that freedom to do anything they don't approve of.

Most of the Blue talk was about being afraid of Reds.

They also said that "Shout TV" causes people to become more extreme and more intolerant of opposing viewpoints. (I guess watching the Factor is what keeps me so fair-minded. [Wink] )

They did an experiment that showed that it is dangerous to let like-minded people congregate together. That people tend to get more extreme when re-enforced by others, [Mad] but when the two sides get together they reach a middle-ground. [Smile]

So OA is a good thing! [Big Grin]

However, they say that the Internet is part of the problem. That people create web-sites and communities of like minded people that re-enforce the negatives of both sides. And bloggers are the worst offenders. They caution against believing everything you read on a blog.

So OA is a unique thing! [Big Grin] If we didn't feel superior before I think we are justified in doing so now!

Do you guys think that the extremist here on OA realize that they are extremists? I pride myself on trying to be fair on all issues (such as siding against the NY Times on there recent outing of the Swift program) even though I realize I lean to the left. And I would be shocked if anyone considered me an extremist, but I would want to know. I think it would be too problematic to point out those we consider extremists, but if anybody does consider themselves an extremist I would appreciate them saying so openly (so then I would know that the others that I consider extremist don't consider themselves to be extremists).

KE

[ June 30, 2006, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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JoshuaD
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I don't think there are too many extremists here. There are people on the far reaches of our range, but overall, even the craziest of us are somewhat grounded in reality.

Usually.

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Tezcatlipoca
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quote:
There are people on the far reaches of our range, but overall, even the craziest of us are somewhat grounded in reality.
Hence why I am a Minarchist, instead of an Anarchist. Usually. [Wink]
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philnotfil
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quote:
The Reds are all hat and no cattle. They mouth the great things about America but they don't live it. Freedom of religion? Hell yeah, as long as you believe and worship the same as they do! The Flag stands for freedom? Hell yeah, as long as you don't exercise that freedom to do anything they don't approve of.
Freedom of speech? Of course, unless you are talking about God.
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Eric
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Eh, I don't know. I didn't see the program, but I think the traditional media tends to over-simplify and pigeon hole red/blue staters.

For instance, red-staters always seem to be portrayed as NASCAR-loving, bible-thumping fundamentalist Christians (they got a bonus with Waltrip!), and the blue-stater as either a thoughtful academic quivering in fear of jack-booted red-staters or a molotov cocktail-tossing nut in a Che t-shirt.

Many will designate me a "red state neo-con" since I voted for Bush (twice), but:

- I'm pro-abortion (within limits)
- I'm against constitutional amendments banning flag-burning and gay marriage
- I'm an atheist for all intents and purposes (what Oriana Fallaci would call a "Christian atheist")

I chafe at the notion of backing a single political party, but here's one other reason it'll be a long time before I vote for a Democrat.

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JohnLocke
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If OA offered signature lines, I'd be all over this one:

"If we didn't feel superior before I think we are justified in doing so now!

-KE"

[Smile]

I have always said that it is in the interest of those who are profiting most to keep Americans neck-to-neck in their own culture war.

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RickyB
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You blame Dems for refusing to vote for a totally political chest thumping measure designed to voice support for the president in a political spat with the media? Mmmkay...
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flydye45
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Great, rash generalizations! Just my cup of tea.

quote:
The Reds are all hat and no cattle. They mouth the great things about America but they don't live it.
Sure, and the Blues love this country but won't do a damned thing to support it, ruling by the weeniest among them.

They support human rights as long as you don't include babies or out of fashion foreigners (Iraqis, Afgans, out; Darfurians and Bosnians, in).

They support our troops but only to save their their lives by retreating. Otherwise they are red state trash whose opinions should be ignored unless cleaving to Blue doctrines. Critical generals are always welcome however.

They love the results of the nation but hate the fact that it came from philosophers who were also religious fanatics and run as far from that history as possible.

Can we play some more? [Razz]

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Redskullvw
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its a simplification. Too many exceptions to be deemed valuable.
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javelin
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Wow, this sounds like they forgot what "random sampling" means. Did they even try to claim that the people on the show were randomly chosen, and self identified?
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IrishTD
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Let's see here...a program trying to highlight differences between Red and Blue staters on a major network. Count me shocked that they would try to find the most outlandish comments/interviews to include (ratings anyone?). [Roll Eyes]
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KnightEnder
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I don't know too many liberals but the Red Staters all were just like everybody I know in Texas. And of course all I see on CNN and Fox News.

I'm glad some of you seem to think that not all Red Staters are like that.

KE

[ July 01, 2006, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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JohnLocke
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Sure, and the Reds love this country but keep opting out of the responsibility to pay for it, excepting of course their sons and daughters (mostly sons) who probably wouldn't be getting a chance at college were it not for the vision of our fearless leader.

They support human rights as long as you don't include homosexuals or out-of-talking-points victims of the justice system.

They support education but only insofar as their religious myths are respected by it.

They hate the results of the nation but continue to believe that it was immaculately conceived in its original forming by philosophers who were also religious fanatics.

quote:
Can we play some more?
[80's computer voice]Would you like to play a game?[/80's computer voice]
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kelcimer
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I think America is purple.

http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/purple_america_2004.gif

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KnightEnder
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Is anyone going to address the finding that group studies showed that the mixing of the two groups led to a middle-ground while the segregation of the two groups led two increasingly extremist views? Does anybody doubt that finding? And of course, that is why I say OA is such a good thing. We keep each other from going crazy. (Pete, drewmie, potemkyn, et al are pretty much the only evidence I have that every Christian isn't like the Baptists that surround me.)

Does anyone doubt that America is becoming more segregated in this respect?

KE

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Jesse
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It's just not a very suprising finding [Smile]
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pickled shuttlecock
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quote:
Originally posted by javelin:
Wow, this sounds like they forgot what "random sampling" means. Did they even try to claim that the people on the show were randomly chosen, and self identified?

Just run it through a low-pass filter and you're set.
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TommySama
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"Does anyone doubt that America is becoming more segregated in this respect?"

I don't know if they are getting more segregated. However I do know that a lot of the liberals I know hate the right so much that anything that comes out of it is evil; this is before they think about it (and they never think about it, it is just evil and meant to supress free thought, end of discussion for them.)

Not to imply that this is different in the right, but I don't know any other conservatives.

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livermeer kenmaile
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Polarised Partisans
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Eric
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KE --

quote:
Is anyone going to address the finding that group studies showed that the mixing of the two groups led to a middle-ground while the segregation of the two groups led two increasingly extremist views?
Ah, but does mixing the two groups moderate their respective views or just their rhetoric?
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flydye45
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Excellent point, Eric.
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LoverOfJoy
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quote:
(Pete, drewmie, potemkyn, et al are pretty much the only evidence I have that every Christian isn't like the Baptists that surround me.)
According to those baptists, the guys you mentioned probably aren't christians anyway. [Smile]
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flydye45
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I put some of the blame on the specialization of the media. The NYT and the Networks aren't really interested in being more balanced (besides the fact they dismiss any bias or inaccuracy).

Instead, they've reached their core constituency (seniors and liberals) so any change is counter productive. Ditto talk radio Fox whatever. You no longer have to listen to different points of view.

I realize that this will be taken by some to be an automatic slam against Fox news, but consider that for decades all the news recieved by the American public was selected, edited, processed and spun by a few square miles of Upper Manhattan whose idea of balance was to have three liberals and George Will in a room.

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KnightEnder
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Fly,

I agree with you about the media.

And Eric, in the study they were able to come to a consensus on a lot of issues. It's amazing how weak the human mind is when confronted with a group dynamic.

LOJ,

That crossed my mind. [Frown]

Tommy, where are you at, and what's it like there? Sounds like you are the opposite situation of mine.

Jesse,

Not suprising but scary and thought provoking. I guess it takes more to provoke thought in some people. [Frown] [Wink]

KE

[ July 02, 2006, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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TommySama
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St. Paul.

My last and current girlfriends, dad, school peers, friends, acquantances, random naked old women protesting America's "occupation of Israel", my moms side of the family, teachers, barristas, fellow employees.... etc are all liberal democrats.

I admit I know a few conservatives; one of my friend's dad, an uncle or two.

It's horrible.

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TomDavidson
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Yeah. I know a few conservatives, too, and it's horrible. [Wink]
*ducks*

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flydye45
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Well Tom, it should be easy enough to avoid them; the slurred speech, the knuckles dragging on the floor, the fact that the first "Jesus" and last "Jesus" word out of their mouths is "Jesus".

If nothing else, when they duck at the offering "Jesus" of the thunder gods, it's a dead give away.

"Jesus"

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KnightEnder
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Fly,

In Texas they are everywhere!

But at least you can recognize and avoid the liberals with the flowers in their hair and the I hate American t-shirts they all wear. But the biggest give-a-way is the burning American flags they all carry. Of course it's harder to tell that they have no souls, no moral center,and are destined for hell. [Frown] [Wink]

Credit where due; all those posts were pretty funny.

KE

[ July 03, 2006, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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javelin
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quote:
Of course it's harder to tell that they have no souls, no moral center,and are destined for hell. [Frown] [Wink]
Just look for the 666 tatooed on their foreheads, right? [Wink]
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KnightEnder
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No, that won't work. A lot em, like me, had them removed. Hair Club for Men does a great job of filling them in. [Wink]

KE

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javelin
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Ah, but what you DON'T know is that the conservative Christians have special vision that allows them to see it anyway. [Smile]
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Fel2.0
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I can remember the nun telling me that Jesus had eyes in the back of his head. I can also remember a long series of nightmares after that.
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flydye45
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KE,

Shame on you for passing along that rotten lie. Of course liberals have souls. These ill used malnourished gits are kept in a crack vial, one of which is ample space for hundreds of liberal souls. At least the crack keeps the soul amused as it is dragged to perdition by it's owner. [Wink]

As far as their moral center; it is kept in the same place the liberal keeps his virginity, temperance, prudence and sense of justice; in the junk drawer.

[ July 03, 2006, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: flydye45 ]

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KnightEnder
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I got rid of my virginity 1 month after turning twelve (best thing I ever did. Or at least the most fun! [Big Grin] ). Thank God I had a God-fearin alcoholic red-neck police officer father to raise me right [Mad] . Doesn't the word "prude" come from prudence? No, we just don't get our sense of morality out of a book. We have to actually THINK about it. Thank God red necks, I mean red staters, don't have to do that. [Frown]

KE

[ July 03, 2006, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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Jesse
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As opposed to the landfill which contains Conservative Compassion [Smile]
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flydye45
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"We have to actually THINK about it"

What assumptions. So what do stupid liberals do?

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Jesse
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They get tired of the thinking, and generally start voting Republican in their early to mid fourties [Big Grin]

The rest of the stupid ones just think really stupid things, like "Communism can work", or "Let's invest heavily in a 20 year old Asian land war, and somehow blame Republicans when it goes bad" :|

[ July 05, 2006, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Jesse ]

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flydye45
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"fourties"

We gladly await your induction into our nefarious ranks. [Big Grin]

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Jesse
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Lucky me, I got heart problems already [Razz]
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tuxmask3
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My wife and I saw the part of the program you are referencing. We are both fairly "conservative" and we shuddered at what we were hearing. My favorite was the man who said that Americans have no right to question their Commander in Chief's actions. Where does this guy live? We quickly changed the channel. I generally don't get involved in political discussions here (or much else for that matter), but some things just make me mad. I hate the polarity right now. Nothing makes me happier than when a congressman or senator votes against party lines. And now I'm derailing the thread so I'll stop.
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