Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » OK, Jordan -- How about making gayspeak a 2nd official language? (Page 4)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4   
Author Topic: OK, Jordan -- How about making gayspeak a 2nd official language?
canadian
Member
Member # 1809

 - posted      Profile for canadian   Email canadian       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If I bore you so much, just tune me out. That's what I would do. If I ever got bored.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by canadian:
If I bore you so much, just tune me out. That's what I would do. If I ever got bored.

If you tuned yourself out, how would that make things more interesting for you?

[ August 25, 2006, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Pete at Home ]

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Well... dictionaries tend to be fairly conservative in when and how they update meanings, following rather than leading public usage.
Yes, that's generally the case. You'd have to have some serious clout to get a dictionary to change its preferred meaning just to satisfy the whims of a narrow and shrill minority. Are you saying that it can't be done? Or are you saying that certain organizations didn't have the chutzpah to meet publicly with Chief Justice Marshall while she was supposedly deciding the Goodridge case to which those organizations were party?

This whole movement is about rewriting the rules of society around the exceptions, DonalD.

Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DonaldD
Member
Member # 1052

 - posted      Profile for DonaldD   Email DonaldD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Which movement?
Posts: 10751 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pete at Home
Member
Member # 429

 - posted      Profile for Pete at Home   Email Pete at Home   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
ssm
Posts: 44193 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DonaldD
Member
Member # 1052

 - posted      Profile for DonaldD   Email DonaldD   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do you believe that the MFA 'movement' strong-armed the dictionary companies, or simply that so many people are effectively members of the movement to use the word in that way that the dictionaries were forced to update the definition?
Posts: 10751 | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekingprometheus
Member
Member # 3043

 - posted      Profile for seekingprometheus   Email seekingprometheus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Can somebody point me to the earlier threads?

I'm really interested in this topic, but it seems that every other post refers to points previously stated and definitions priorly explained. I'm sure that this subject has been debated at enough length for several threads, so I'm wondering where to go to do my background reading.

I'd be much obliged for some quick directions.

Posts: 3654 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Funean
Member
Member # 2345

 - posted      Profile for Funean   Email Funean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Search on "SSM," "same sex marriage," or "gay marriage."

Thanks for being willing to defer starting another one of the damned things. [Big Grin]

Posts: 5277 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grafitti I saw yesterday:

Is masturbation a form of self-help or same-sex marriage?

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekingprometheus
Member
Member # 3043

 - posted      Profile for seekingprometheus   Email seekingprometheus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks
Posts: 3654 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Richard Dey
Member
Member # 1727

 - posted      Profile for Richard Dey   Email Richard Dey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fun:

Do you think the ssm movement has helped the gay movement -- or not? And how? What issues?

I noticed today that the NJ SC has given Trenton (or wherever the capital is) 180 days to figure out whether it would go for ssm or civil unions.

Sky

Posts: 7866 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Funean
Member
Member # 2345

 - posted      Profile for Funean   Email Funean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<looks around>

It seems unfaithful, somehow, to talk SSM when Pete isn't here...

Anyway, Richard, er, I dunno. I think it's kind of unrelated, or some kind of horse/cart thing, frankly. I don't think the question of SSM would have come up if straight/gay relations hadn't become comparatively friendlier.

On the one hand, the strong interest in marriage among many members of the gay community (whatever the heck THAT is) has illustrated that just as many of us are boring, pedestrian middle class folks as in the straight community, which I gather is something of a surprise to some people. [Big Grin]

On the other hand, it's galvanized some members of the "see no evil" sector, who might otherwise have been inclined to go on pretending we didn't exist, and thus at least refrained from burning our houses down, or passing more laws "against" us.

The single thing that has done "more for" gay people than anything else is the refusal of much of the younger generation to be closeted. Simple exposure to gay people, who are freaky and dull in pretty much the same variety as straight people has done a lot to dispel the myths and demonization associated with ignorance.

Posts: 5277 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Richard Dey
Member
Member # 1727

 - posted      Profile for Richard Dey   Email Richard Dey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Interesting take; but, as you well know, normalization is anathema to my way of thinking. It would mean to me changing the character of the gay psyche. Even in primitive nonhomophobic cultures it was always exceptional. That's why I think the SSM thing is absurdist.
Posts: 7866 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Funean
Member
Member # 2345

 - posted      Profile for Funean   Email Funean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am not convinced that the gay psyche of which you speak correlates 100% with actual homosexuality, you know....I also don't believe the *availability* of the option of marriage could eradicate it in any case.

Besides, darling, I will never be normal, with or without marriage benefits.

[Smile]

Posts: 5277 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
'Gay' psyche? Well, that, I suppose depends on how much of one's thinking is done with oine's crotch, factored by the amount of interest one's society placers in what one does with one's crotch.

If more people would mind their own business and crotch their own business, we would have far less problems regarding such matters. As an old mentor once told me: "Xtian westerndom has sex obsessively on its mind. That's really not where it belongs."

"I will never be normal, with or without marriage benefits"

Encapsulated history of Ornery debate regarding OSM/SSM:

Does 'normal' marriage benefit from 'bnormal' marriage? Does the benefit conferred upon participants in abnormal marriage (hypothetically) outweigh the (alleged) detriments to normal incurred by the inclusion of their unusual union under the usual marriage rubric?

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekingprometheus
Member
Member # 3043

 - posted      Profile for seekingprometheus   Email seekingprometheus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I haven't waded through all the backthreads like I want to, but I'm curious if the debates in this forum have explored the issue of alternative-marital-unions in terms of cultural preparation for alternative forms of reproduction.

In other words, since we're already seeing the beginning of a fundamental change in the way humans breed (birth control, in vitro fertilization etc) which is likely to express itself quite soon in even more drastic ways (cloning, genetic modification etc), has the discussion of SSM been framed as the beginning of the major cultural adaptations that will be necessary to deal with an upcoming shift in the basic parameters of the breeding project?

I ask because my limited exposure to Pete's position (which seems to be by far the most coherent anti-SSM position I've encountered) has given me the impression (perhaps erroneous) that it seems to me to depend quite heavily on the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy (pardon my gross oversimplification), and I'm curious if it has been pointed out that: yeah, the whole system is breaking--right now.

Posts: 3654 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"I haven't waded through all the backthreads like I want to, but I'm curious if the debates in this forum have explored the issue of alternative-marital-unions in terms of cultural preparation for alternative forms of reproduction."

No wonder I make you happy, Promethean. We think very much alike. Would it embarrass you very much if I said you mke me happy too?

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekingprometheus
Member
Member # 3043

 - posted      Profile for seekingprometheus   Email seekingprometheus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*blush*

I'm far too coy to be so easily plied! And such shameless flirtation in a gay thread? Tsk, tsk--don't you know how tongues will wag?

*goes back to resting chin on hands, and gazing appreciatively into the beautiful waters of Echo's pond*

Posts: 3654 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There is a lovely lake north of me 1/2 mile south of the Canuckianistani border. I discovered it's fine echo provided by cliff walls, one mornng when I cleared my throat mightily and spat.

Echo snorted and spat back.

How rude!

I suggest you quit wagging your tongue like that. It looks suggestive. Do like the Moral Majority does instead: wag your finger.

You know the drill: when in doubt -- remonstrate.

Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Richard Dey
Member
Member # 1727

 - posted      Profile for Richard Dey   Email Richard Dey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Fun:--

It wouldn't be instantaneous, dahlink, but I would suggest that it would be insidious over generations and do irreparable damage to society (not hi-so-ci, perhaps, but to society generally).

One really good example I would posit is the shaman syndrome. All round the Pacific rim, for example, shamans are gay and not straight. Is this mere Injun tradition -- all the way east over the Mississippi River, all the way south to Patagonia and Australasia, all the way west to the early Chang?

Whether homophilia is only and entirely the result of homoseuxals, I would doubt equally; but disapproval it would seem to me is all but essential for a change to the better since it requires a change from the worse.

The primary purpose of homophilia to my mind is not revolution; if a homosexual is not a revolutionary (as Mumford lamented), he is of little use to conservatives, no [Wink] ?

What an interesting question regarding reproduction alternatives, of which we have several improving upon nature today and many more to come; but the movement for children's rights has certainly kept the prssure on overbearing parentalism just in the last 50 years.

The end of childish supplication to parents and to gods is a goodly objective!

Posts: 7866 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Richard Dey
Member
Member # 1727

 - posted      Profile for Richard Dey   Email Richard Dey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh, Fun, and I would ask Bacon's question again ...:

HE THAT HATH wife and children hath given hostages to fortune; for they are impediments to great enterprises, either of virtue or mischief. Certainly the best works, and of greatest merit for the public, have proceeded from the unmarried or childless men; which both in affection and means, have married and endowed the public. Sir F. B.: Of Marriage and Single Life

Today, I'm sure, he would include women?

Posts: 7866 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kenmeer livermaile
Member
Member # 2243

 - posted      Profile for kenmeer livermaile   Email kenmeer livermaile       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are those who should raise children and those who should advance science. Not mutually ewxclusive in toto, but 'en trend'. (Like my crudely whittled Latin-Franco euphoniumism?)
Posts: 23297 | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Funean
Member
Member # 2345

 - posted      Profile for Funean   Email Funean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, it's certainly much harder, if not impossible, to produce great works tormented by toddlers, unless one considers said toddlers to be one's magnum opus. Then again, the time that children or other dependents are a problem is limited; presumably one has years before or after to put one's nose to the grindstone.

To return to the decimation of gay culture by marriage laws et al, I would add that discrete populations often (frequently? exclusively?) are at their creative best when under stress that is severe but not to the point of annihilation. The notion that more inclusionary policies will thereby eradicate what is great about homosexual culture strongly suggests that its greatness is dependent on the alienation and oppression that is characteristic of its history.

Well, okay.

I am afraid I do not find the potential loss of some portion of homosexual greatness (enjoyed largely, by the percentages, by straight folks) a compelling argument for being categorically excluded from the benefits of my larger culture by these same straight folks.

In other words, the little red hen says, "Flake off." [Razz]


edited for critical negative

[ October 29, 2006, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Funean ]

Posts: 5277 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1