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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » September 11 (Page 2)

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Author Topic: September 11
Omega M.
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I never thought the "war on terror" would be over if Osama were caught and al-Qaeda dismantled. It will be over when there are no states or large groups of people that support attacking civilian populations without warning. (Yes, I know that some would say that this means that the U.S. and Israel are the biggest terror-supporting states out there, so don't anybody respond with that one-liner.) Obviously there will always be small groups of people that want to blow things up.
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canadian
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quote:
Bad taste, c.

I don't recall anyone making Bush the world policeman. England is an ally, not a US territory. We don't police them.

Pete, allow me to lay out the remarkably simple chain of comments that occurred:

1. I still wonder why we haven't had another 9/11-level or bigger attack yet. What are they waiting for?

2. Bush to stop foiling their plots

3. Good Old Bush...foiling those British bombers in England...

---

I would never say that you were an idiot, so I won't.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I caught some of Dubya talking with Matt Lauer the past two mornings. Bush too had difficulty remembering that it was the Brits, not the USA, who foiled the alleged terrorist plot based on fluid bomb components. But he caught himself and gave credit where credit is due.

As for can's apophasis regarding Pete: I'm not gonna comment on it [Wink]

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Obviously there will always be small groups of people that want to blow things up."

Finally! A definitive definition of terrorism!

When small groups of people want to blow big things up, that's terrorism.

When big groups of people want to blow small things up, that defense.

Unless it's the more-or-less Arab League wanting to blow Israel up, in which case it's either anti-Semitism or genocide.

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Pete at Home
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Bad taste, bad logic, cheap shot, c. You've done better.
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canadian
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ouch.

no really...

ouch.

ooo.

ow.

[Roll Eyes]

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EDanaII
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@ kenmeer livermaile:
quote:
I don't think 911 marks the beginning of WWIII. I DO think it marks the beginning of an historically typical process of dishonest exploitation by most powers circling the questions of the 21st century, which in turn will bring us inevitably into WWIII.
No one said it was the beginning. Only that we are already in it. It began, much as with Naziism, with the rise of the current Iranian national identity, and it will end when the Iranian's, and the rest of the Middle East, understand how much their current identity is going to cost them.

Between now and the end, unfortunately, I fear there will be much "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth." [Frown]

Ed.

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canadian
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[FootInMouth]

Oooo..uv teef! thowwy, my bah.

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flydye45
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We are attacked.

Bush does x, y, and z.

We have not had another terrorist attack since (and attack means "violence carried out" not considered. The failures are GOOD things)

The posturing of "not increasing our security" to the "major civil liberties lost" isn't supported. We haven't been attacked. We have caught bad guys. While it hasn't been established that Bush's actions have done so, it is highly suggestive, particularly after he outlined in his speech last week how he has used such knowledge. Meanwhile, we have librarians having the vapors, no massive round ups, no illegally obtained evidence used in cases, and no police on every street corner (except in New Orleans [Wink] )

As an aside, you will note that the Bush Ankle Biters haven't given him any credit for pulling back the curtain to give us a peek at how he is doing things, giving the lie to their calls for "clarity and transparency". I was surprised at how forthright he was in that speech.

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flydye45
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Luckily, can, you have that swimmingly good Canadian health care system. You appointment is scheduled for December 2007.
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KnightEnder
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Yeah Fly, the Patriot Act and Bush are doing a great job of keeping out Aliens and dinosaurs too. Haven't seen one around since they were enacted.

KE

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canadian
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quote:
Originally posted by flydye45:
Luckily, can, you have that swimmingly good Canadian health care system. You appointment is scheduled for December 2007.

[Wink]

Oh, to believe everything I heard on Fox News...

Or wherever you heard it. If I needed a foot removed from my mouth, I could get it done PDQ. Believe me, it's happened before..

[Smile]

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kenmeer livermaile
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I conduct phone surveys for money. Did a health care survey.

I believe Americans think they know more about Canada's health care system than they know about their own.

KE:

Yeah but what about Alien Dinosaurs? Huh? Huh? HUH?!?!? [Wink]

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flydye45
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Unlike sober alien sightings by non-bubbas, we've actually SEEN terrorists in America before the Patriot act. Quite a bit in the 90's when everyone's favorite Bubba was doing a bang up job with security. But at least HE looked after their civil rights. [Roll Eyes] Because to some, the Constitution IS a suicide pact, and to bend one ideal means we are no better then our enemy who has none.
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canadian
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Wow, you've managed to fit those talking points in your mouth so well!

[Wink]

[ September 13, 2006, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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SInce Bubba vs. Dubya has become a recent focus of partisan/administration tit-for-tats regarding adequate/inadequate security measures against terrorists, I'll note a curious but unimpeachable fact: 911 occurred on Dubya's watch, not Bubba's, and it did so via some frankly amazing failures of well-established security procedures. Such as, for prime example, the amazingly slow response of NORAD that morning.

I think that the bridge of logic whereby Clinton is deemed 'soft on terror' doesn't span well if one attempts to connect it to Dubya and 911.

Sorry, son, but that dog won't fly any more than that saucer'll hunt. (The term 'son' is used to invoke bubba-speech, not to infer paternalist maturity on my part vis a vis flydye, who still has one of the more swingingest names in cyberspace.).)

[ September 13, 2006, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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EDanaII
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quote:
I'll note a curious but unimpeachable fact: 911 occurred on Dubya's watch, not Bubba's, and it did so via some frankly amazing failures of well-established security procedures.
Have we forgotten, already, the first WTC bombing? That didn't happen on Dubya's watch and I'm still mad at Bubba for giving Osona Bich Laden a second chance...

Ed.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I haven't forgotten the first WTC. I'm not exonerating Clinton at all. I recall a documented instance where El Bubba's crew were offered an extensive dossier on Osama and his whereabouts by, I believe, the Saudis, and declined. Clinton gets very low grades from me on the subject of al-qaeda and bin Laden.

BUT... Clinton, I recall, finished his term sometime in early January 2001. 911 happened, well, the answer is coded in the name, yes? 9-11-2001. Clinton was retired 8 months at that point.

Dubya is, after all, the Decider. Clinton, these days, is only the Derided and, on rare occasions when he bothers to act as if he gives a damn, the Derider.

Why does Clinton speak out so little against Little Buddy? The best answer I can think of is Honor Among Assholes.

What value is there in heaping blame on Clinton when evidence clearly shows that pre-911 Dubya followed in Bubba's apathetic asleep-at-the-wheel footsteps? As for post-911 Dubya, I say, with protectors like him, who needs attackers?

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canadian
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With projectors like him, who needs attracters?
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kenmeer livermaile
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That's 'perjectors' not "projectors".
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canadian
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With purgectors like him, who needs them tractors?
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EDanaII
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quote:
BUT... Clinton, I recall, finished his term sometime in early January 2001. 911 happened, well, the answer is coded in the name, yes? 9-11-2001. Clinton was retired 8 months at that point.
And, yet, if Bubba had invaded Afghanistan, destroyed Al Qeada and Osona Bich Laden when he should have, there would have been no 9/11 to for us to mourn and no "excuse" for Dubba to invade Iraq...

Instead, Bubba was too busy ducking the trubba caused by his stubba and the Monica "hubba hubba."

<Voice="Bill Clinton">

Hey Monica? I'd like to introduce you to the "Presidential Staff!"

</Voice>

[Very evil grin!]

Ed.

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EDanaII
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quote:
Why does Clinton speak out so little against Little Buddy? The best answer I can think of is Honor Among Assholes.
And I respect Bubba for that. I wish only that Carter would show as much common sense.

Ed.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I don't believe Carter is or was an asshole.

As for Clinton blame: if Dubya had finished the job in Afghanistan...

Difference: Dubya's still in office and bin Laden is his wanted man. Dubya made this very clear.

At the time of the cruise missile attacks on bin Laden and the alleged Sudanese bioweapons lab, he was accused of lobbing missiles abroad to distract from lobbing his missile at a broad.

None of which amounts to a hill of beans as regards 3000 dead 5 years and 2 days ago.

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canadian
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Well, if GB1 had finished the job in Iraq, there would have been a flowering of democracy there that would have inspired would-be terrorists in the region to civic duties.

Alas.

[ September 13, 2006, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Alas, indeed. The cynical pessimsim caused by Iraqi's disappointment when we fought Saddam over Kuwaiti oil but failed to depose him and rebuild Iraq or at least impose a slightly better puppet regime, you know -- something, at least -- and hen our subsequent punsihment of the average Iraqi citizen with impoverishing sanctions. Aye, we sowed the seeds of democracy there.

But then, that was 16 years ago. God the Father has since sent us His Only Misbegotten Son so that democracy should not perish but have everlasting lfe...

[ September 13, 2006, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: kenmeer livermaile ]

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EDanaII
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You know what? I agree with the both of ya. Which is why this line of discussion is rather pointless, and why I'm interjecting in such an impish way. Such is the spectacle of speculation.

OK, except for one thing: Carter is an asshole simply because he's speaking out so badly against the current President. He should shut his mouth out of respect for his own term in office; just as I'm sure he didn't want people second guessing his own administration he should do the same for the current administration It's simple courtesy.

Ed.

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canadian
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Perhaps he feels a greater responsibility than simple courtesy allows.

[ September 13, 2006, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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EDanaII
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Then he never truly understood the weight of his own office...
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canadian
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Somehow I doubt that.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Well, if we're gonna agree on things, I suppose we'll just have to disagree to agree? Or somp'n. Here: welccome to Ornery. You're wrong. Ha! How dare you tell me we agree! [Wink]

I agree with Can about courtesy and honor. Also, a retired prez is just another Joe. And here in America, we can diss the Prez all we wants.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"Then he never truly understood the weight of his own office..."

Or perhaps he does, and also understands the weight of his successors' orifices.

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canadian
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That's one Dense Arsehole..
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kenmeer livermaile
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Seriously, though... I recall BUshI explaining why he let Saddam be. He said that to try and change that regime would bury our forces in a quagmire of perenially unresolved conflict. Iraq's internal politics, I interpret him saying, are a family affair. Stay out of them but don't hesitate to remind them that they're only sharecropping our oil...
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kenmeer livermaile
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What you call an infinite masshole... aka a blackhole. No light escapes. Gewt too close it'll suck you up, which inverse function sheds dark light on why so much bs spews from the orifice normally assigned to ingest rather than expel.
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canadian
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Albeit with much gravitas.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Gravitass: I submit. You win. That's supreme.
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EDanaII
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Impressive. Most impressive. Bubba-Wan has taught you well. You have controlled your fear. Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy Bush.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Aw, that's nothing. You should hear me breath into aa hotmiked motorcycle helemt and speak in a very very deep low voice.

Only The Farce can destroy Bush.

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EDanaII
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Didn't I just say that? [Big Grin]
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