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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Bush Speaks About 9-11 (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Bush Speaks About 9-11
KnightEnder
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I'm pretty sure he mentioned 9-11 in there somewhere during his justification for Iraq and failing to find OBL or erradicate Al Queda, right? Pathetic.

KE

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Adam Masterman
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I didn't watch it. Sounds like what I expected. The word from the white house was that the speech was going to be a-political. How exactly he was going to manage that was a bit puzzling. Calling the Iraq war part of the WOT is nothing if not political. And I had money on the fact that he literally couldn't talk about 9-11 without mentioning Iraq. I take it I won that bet?

Adam

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DaveS
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quote:
The word from the white house was that the speech was going to be a-political. How exactly he was going to manage that was a bit puzzling.
Not quite. It's not political if you're a Republican.
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kenmeer livermaile
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Considering that a commemorative speech for the 5th anniversary of 911 is fitting only as a eulogy for the dead, I'd say Dubya/Rove are mighty desparate.

I don't know about Rove, but I'm thinking that Dubya's desparatioin is primarily focused on his conscience, especially where it encounters his cognitive dissonance.

It's one thing to tell a few Noble Lies to the nation and the world in order to prosecute a martial foreign policy of defense by preemptive invasion touted as a grand sowing of freedom-seeds.

It's another thing to keep telling these lies to yourself.

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canadian
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It was dark out still, but that wasn't uncommon. Laura frequently rose early to put on her make-up and do her hair before the old sack woke up to go for his run. She wondered why she was so suddenly awake. She looked at the time. 3:00am.

George suddenly rolled onto his back beside her, snorting in his fitful sleep. She looked at his face, twitching in dreams, thinking how much it reminded her of Barney. At that she smiled. Yes, Georgie would always be her little puppy.

"Mama? Mama?" he croaked.

"Yes, dear," she replied. She'd found out a lot during Georgie's 'Mama' dreams. It was his nocturnal confession, and all she had to do was play a role.

"Mama, ah'm a war president!"

"Yes, you are baby! I'm so proud of you."

"But mama, it's all lies! Ah can't keep tellin' the lies! They say it's for the country, but everyone hates me, mama! What have we done? What have I done?"

"What are you talking about?"

"Nothin'"

"George!" Laura snapped in her best Barbara impression, "Answer me this instant!"

"Oh mama..." he whined.

"It's alright, dear" she said, smoothing the crinkly hair off his forehead, "you can tell mama."

"We let it happen, mama. Rummy, he said we needed to let it happen now so that something worse didn't happen later. Johnny Ash told me it was God's Plan for me! That I was gonna be the greatest President ever."

"Well, you are. baby."

"Better than daddy?"

Her voice went flat. "Much better than daddy."

"And now everything's falling apart. Why won't those brown people accept democracy, mama?"

He was getting agitated. If she let it go on much longer, she knew he would wake up from his precarious sleep.

"Don't you worry your beautiful mind over that, my baby. Sleep. Mama will make it right."

"Okay," he mumbled, his breathing becoming deeper,"Mama'll make it right."

Laura got out of bed, then, and walked over to her desk, pulling out her journal. She reached under the drawer and pulled the key out of the little shelf she'd made for it and opened up the book.

"Dear diary, " she wrote, "tonight Georgie had another dream. I think we might have to increase the dosage. I'll have to arrange something with Jerry this week, see if we can't boost up Georgie's faith..."

-fin-

[ September 12, 2006, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Bravo.

As for the Barney passage: genius. Vulgar, but then, such is genius.

Also, the opening line:

"It was dark out still, but that wasn't uncommon."

is very 'truthy' these days, n'est ce pas?

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canadian
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[Wink]
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flydye45
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Of course GWB MUST be lying. How could he possibly believe that changing things in the ME would have an effect on the hotbed of terrorism?

After all, YOU don't believe it. Thus all right thinking people must agree and George must be a liar and a rouge.

I felt the mention of Iraq was a bit out of place and his call to unity to the BAB's a waste of time.

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canadian
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Good point.
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Redskullvw
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Well lets see.

The speech was one of the best I have seen delivered by any President, <since Nixon when I could watch and understand such speeches>. It was both a statement of remembrance and a statement of policy commitments. He framed the issues of terrorism and our responses clearly, without bias, and he admitted that he had committed mistakes. He clearly explained what we were attacked by, who we are fighting, and what the stakes of this combat are.

There was just one small problem with the speech.

It came four years too late, and no one is listening anymore. According to NBC 59% of Americans don't think terrorism is a concern at all or -only a slight concern. The justification the respondents used is that terrorism will happen someplace else, and its just a cost of living. If you are foolish enough to live in New York or Washington and get hit with an attack, then it is your own fault. Maybe if Bush had been media polished enough to deliver this speech 4 years ago, when people were still receptive to understanding what we face, it would have been the clarion call to citizens as to the options and paths open to us.

Instead, Bush was 4 years too late, preaching to the choir, and all that was left to be seen was how politicized both parties could be in response after he made the speech. I understand that it is Federal Elections time, but both political party rank and files are acting like trogs. Having listened to the speech, I find it amazing that both parties have so inflected and exaggerated the supposed content of the speech that even the Washington Press Corps sound like idiots asking questions pertaining to content that was not even in the speech, and insisting it was even when the President's press secretary reads the actual text of the speech and contradicts the entirety of their question.

The political spin is so hard now that even the press doesn't admit to itself what it asks is based on fantasy.

The Republicans will loose this election, and loose it badly. There will not be a Republican President in 2008. Withdrawal, diplomatic conferences, and treating Radical Islam as a criminal activity will soon be the new rule of United States policy. We will adopt the Sitzkrieg stance I feared.

The speech was fantastic, just way too late and fell on collectively deaf ears. It may be the one thing Bush did that fundamentally threatens the United States in the future. He wasn't a good media master until the ending phase of his term of office and failed to explain to the public what we faced soon enough.

It is only a matter of time before we have another 9-11 style attack.

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KnightEnder
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"They (the terrorists) are terrified by the sight of an old man pulling an election lever!" ???

Oh yeah, that was a brilliant speech. I'm sure school kids will be reciting it in plays 50 years from now.

Red, did you leave out the three little letters; IMO? Or have you missed every speech since Nixon?

KE

[ September 12, 2006, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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MattP
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quote:
Red, did you leave out the three little letters; IMO?
I think we'd all quickly wear out those keys if IMO was a required modifier to every statement of opinion. Very little that is said here is not "I" somebody's "O"
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Redskullvw
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KE

No rather I have a feeling our children's children will be dealing with a world that either turned out to be a community of freely democratic nations, or the alternative of a world where Islam isolated and impoverished the United States and holds the eastern hemisphere in a ubiquitous caliphate.

Either way the fact of a man voting will have no significance. In a free world voting will be so commonplace it won't be noticed. In a caliphate ruled world no one will be voting so no one will remember its significance.

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Redskullvw
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KE

as an historian, that is my professional viewpoint in regard to the speech and it's place among other presidential speeches.

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KnightEnder
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Matt, I agree, but Red is an exception,, he deals in facts much more often than the rest of us.

(Stil, should have used smiley face after the IMO comment. Not the lever pulling one, though.)

KE

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canadian
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quote:
Originally posted by Redskullvw:
KE

No rather I have a feeling our children's children will be dealing with a world that either turned out to be a community of freely democratic nations, or the alternative of a world where Islam isolated and impoverished the United States and holds the eastern hemisphere in a ubiquitous caliphate.

Either way the fact of a man voting will have no significance. In a free world voting will be so commonplace it won't be noticed. In a caliphate ruled world no one will be voting so no one will remember its significance.

So somebody did read the Dan Simmons link I put up a few months ago!

[ September 12, 2006, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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Redskullvw
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No canadian I didn't.

I do my own research, and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that cultural, political, and military influences on American policy are driving it toward Sitzkrieg and isolationism.

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canadian
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Touchy!

Well, you should have read it, I think you would've enjoyed it.

But I suppose squirreling away information in isolation sounds good too...

[Wink]

---

Well, Red, it seems to me that all you have to do is find a way to convince other people of their impending doom and you've got nothing to worry about. Developing a few leadership qualities never hurt anybody.

[ September 12, 2006, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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Redskullvw
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Canadian,

That is exactly what the President did last night. It went over like a lead balloon. And regardless of your political or personal view of the man, he has leadership and management skills in spades.

What in the world would make you think I would waste my time trying to lead people away from the avoidable?

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canadian
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Your particular skill set? Empathy? That you would be ideally suited to halt Fascism in it's tracks, or something? I don't know, I'm not your mirror, man!

[Wink]

Anyway, I happen to like Bush. I'm sure he could've used those leadership and management skills to help not run his oil companies into the ground, but no matter. I wish the man well, I have no particular grudge against him. It would take a rare person to be able to deal with 9/11 and the aftermath to everyone's satisfaction.

[ September 12, 2006, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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"a) Developing a few leadership qualities never hurt anybody.

b)That is exactly what the President did last night. It went over like a lead balloon."

Leadership that goes over like a lead balloon. Perhaps he should have worn leaderhosen?

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Storm Saxon
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quote:

It came four years too late

Actually, a lot of his speech was rehash from speeches he's been giving for at least the last few years, right down to the buzz phrases. I didn't really hear anything new.

For instance, from 2001,

quote:

This is not, however, just America's fight. And what is at stake is not just America's freedom. This is the world's fight. This is civilization's fight. This is the fight of all who believe in progress and pluralism, tolerance and freedom.

We ask every nation to join us.


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kenmeer livermaile
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The global political climate is mostly merging into various forms of technocracy, some with democratic frosting, others with communist frosting.

The nations of Islam are still on the rising curve of the enlightenment motion toward greater civic freedom. We of the west are on the declining curve.

Why, right now, we are relinquishing our hard-won civil liberties in the name of fighting for freedom.

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flydye45
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"The nations of Islam are still on the rising curve of the enlightenment motion toward greater civic freedom."

That's a hell of a gradual curve.

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Wayward Son
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Perhaps not. Perhaps this fundamentalist/ terrorist movement is a direct reaction to the Westerfication of the Muslim world.

Or, at least, I can dream that it is. [Wink]

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kenmeer livermaile
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a) "The nations of Islam are still on the rising curve of the enlightenment motion toward greater civic freedom."

b) "That's a hell of a gradual curve."

Speaklng of gradual curves:

We of the USA released ourselves from chattel slavery only 140 years ago. We did this on a continent isolated from the Old World by an entire ocean. We did this in a governmental context of revolution and radical departures from the historically prevailing political norms of the time, in a land of impeccable and abundant natural resources with land free-for-alls that lasted until recent decades.

Yes, poor Islam drags a lot of baggage. Not only must they pull themselves past their own sordid histories while struggling to retain their more enlightened eras, they must also do so while essentially held hostage to Western interventionism since the 1920s (further back than that in places like Afghanistan). It is worth noting that it was Western interests who enthroned the rabidly fundamental Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia, allowing massive fortunes to be controlled by a narrow and highly corrupt nepotism that has worked to forcibly spread Wahhabism. The original financial sponsors of fundamental Islamic terrorism were Western interests long before Zbigniew Brzezinski convinced Osama to take his family fortune and focus it on acts of violent disruption aka terrorism.

Some observations on this notion:

Cato Insitute article

Herbert Hoover said of Pearl Harbor: "... this continuous putting pins in rattlesnakes finally got this country bitten." (This obscure quote courtesy Pat Buchanan, an avowed isolationist although not always consistently so.)

Some of us were discussing the NAZIs and mid-20th century Europe yesterday. One unassailable fact in that debate was that the culture that produced Beethoven and Schiller and Bach and Mozart and Goethe (whom I've never read) and Holderlin (whom I deeply enjoy) also produced the Holocaust, the Blitzkrieg, the curious rationalization-by-reality called realpolitik, and a revitalization of torture and slavery made worse by its integration with bureacratic methods and industrial application.

Yesterday, many argued (and I suspect you sympathized with them, fly) that, had the Allied forces not put their all into defeating the Axis, a Reign of Horror would have ensued for decades or even centuries in Eurasia. (I took the atypical position on this matter that good would ultimately have triumped over evil in Europe even if we hadn't intervened. I've got this weird belief that good is more viable than evil. I base this on concepts of evolution, but even those who disbelieve evolution place God the Good Guy in the position of the Almighty while placing Satan the Sadist underfoot as the Serpent.)

We all tread the same globe, Terra the Firma. It's curvature is so gradual as to appear flat but we generally tread toward enlightening dawn.

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canadian
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quote:
We all tread the same globe, Terra the Firma. It's curvature is so gradual as to appear flat but we generally tread toward enlightening dawn.
That's a good quote.
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kenmeer livermaile
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This marbled earth
We step upon
That spins the night
And ushers dawn

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canadian
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When daylight breaks
The shattered whole
Will tumble down
To night's enfold

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kenmeer livermaile
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Hungover, can?
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canadian
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Just hung.
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kenmeer livermaile
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That's different from 'unjustly hung', yes?

Reminds me of my fave Jesus joke:

Why do women love Jesus?

Because He was hung like this (spread arms wide as in crucifixion). [!RimShot!]

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flydye45
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"I wish the man well, I have no particular grudge against him. It would take a rare person to be able to deal with 9/11 and the aftermath to everyone's satisfaction"

You said a mouthful there. <snarky response deleted here in a strangely sudden sense of diplomacy>

Wow two marvels. Insight from Canadian and Diplomacy from me. It's the END TIMES!

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canadian
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I find myself wishing you'd kept the snark in there....

Or is that your game? Torture me with curiosity?

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kenmeer livermaile
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It's apophasistic snarkiness.
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canadian
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Well, he's not going to lure me in to commenting...
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kenmeer livermaile
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About what?
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wakeup
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this is wakeup here again
it seems that this little topic got very big
how do you feel about this
One of our first guidelines should be based on the old adage, "Consider the source." What is the track record of the source? Have they been reliable in the past? Do they have a well-earned reputation for truth and getting the facts straight? Or have they been known to sensationalize, censor, ignore, color, crop, or even falsify the facts to advance a hidden agenda?
in emergency do you dail 911
coincidence...coincidence....coincidence
come on do you really think bush is sorry for
bombing the trade centers with all those
gerry springer loving cross dressers in there
think with your head americans not with your
teevee

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wakeup
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hello gerry springers
this is wakeup at your service with facts only
the gravitational potential energy of a skyscraper is nowhere near sufficient to destroy its own frame.
think...
think....
think......
my little gerry springer lovers

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wakeup
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and another thing
i'm only saying bush killed 3.000 people
He actually did it!!! and thinks he got away with it with your help
who is the smart one here???

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