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Author Topic: How is this not a specific withdrawal date?
velcro
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quote:
[One of the top US commanders in Iraq Gen.] Casey is working on projections for when the U.S. military can hand over responsibilities to Iraqi forces in different parts of the country
Wash Post

Is this not planning for a specific withdrawal date?

In interest of context,
quote:
Rumsfeld said yesterday that "there's no doubt" some of the projections will not be met. "In some cases, once we meet the projection, we may have to go back and do it again if it doesn't work," he said.
So we should set a date, but if things don't work out, we will move the date. It's still setting a date, asking the terrorists to wait us out, etc.

I think it makes perfect sense, but it is something that the administration has been attacking whenever someone suggests a date.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Well, eventually they gotta set a deadline on WHEN that miracle is gonna fly outta their asses and transform Iraq into a decent place to raise kids...
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potemkyn
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velcro,

I just got done watching a Frontline episode on the first year in Iraq. Very confusing in the way they portratyed the administration. A lot of talk about the administration using timelines which were set in stone (transition from CPA to Iraqi government was dictated by Washington, not the situation or the commanders in the field and against the wishes of Bremer), not to mention wanting to leave Iraq post-haste.

As for current timelines, I think the difference is in-house versus outsiders making the projections. The administration wants a timeline for which they won't be held accountable but from which they can draw successes and victories. Timelines are tools for measuring progress, but the lack of progress makes these tools all the less likely to be used by the administration unless they have absolute say over it.

All that being said, I remember specifically asking for something exactly like this. I remember in January this idea was quite unpopular... I wonder how it will play out now.

Potemkyn

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canadian
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Withdrawal is not a guarantee against inseminating the seeds of further violence.
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kenmeer livermaile
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It's just an excellent way of preventing your **** from getting chopped off at the root. [Wink]
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flydye45
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There is a vast difference between an internal SECRET date set and one announced to the opposition (oh yes, and to the terrorists too [Wink] )
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kenmeer livermaile
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...as opposed to EXTERNAl secrets... sorry. Couldn't help it. Nor can I help thje following creative discharge:

"...it was an open secret, known by everyone but himself, that his was a closed mind..."

No. Not drected at anyone here. That came form the par of me that sometimees attempts to write fiction. SInce all fiction is ultimately autobiographical, that points to me if anyone.

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Jesse
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Cool, 'cause when Presidents have secret plans for peace with honor, it always works out well [Smile]
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flydye45
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How is honorable peace possible when you abandon a nation to terrorists? Ask a Cambodian intellectual or a Vietnamese boat person...
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DaveS
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quote:
How is honorable peace possible when you abandon a nation to terrorists?
The country is overrun with internal ethnic and religious conflicts, which account for much more of the violence than "terrorism". What if the Iraqi's don't want a government that would be to our liking? Do we stay until they do, however long it takes and whatever the cost?
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kenmeer livermaile
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"How is honorable peace possible when you abandon a nation to terrorists?"

It is just possible that the 'terrorists' (one name fis all these days, it seems) will have much greater difficulty justifying their insane violence to remove the foreign occupiers if the foreign occupiers leave, Whereupon the locals get on with the civil war(s) they must have in order to reach an accord and form whatever politival orgaization suits them.

It is WE who insist on a united Iraq, probably because it was WE who insisted on the artifical borders that have defined Iraq since, what, WWI?

You should dress up as Woodrow Wilson for Halloween, fly. Or, if you'd prefer a Rep analog, try on McKInley for size.

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Liberal
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What I'd like to know is how the hell is this not purely politics? Why did this have to wait till right before the election that the GOP was afraid it would lose? Why the 3 years of the same failed policy first with no changes?
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kenmeer livermaile
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Well, Lib, like the maxim says: Don't ascribe to evil intent what can be explained my mere stupidity... [Wink]
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LinuxFreakus
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Velcro, if that is your definition of "setting a date" then I don't know what could possibly make you happy.

All they are doing is making estimates, and then re-evaluating as needed. In my mind, "setting" a pull out date means you are making it an absolute. This is not what is happening. We are not going to just leave no matter what.

I agree with Liberal, this is purely politics, or wishful thinking at best. Just like everyone else, they want to pull out the troops when they are no longer needed, but it is ridiculous to assert that it will be any time in the very near future. They are just trying to say one thing and do another, classic politics.

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Liberal
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I am watching General Casey speak on CNN, there is now an official 12-18 month timeline of withdrawal from now. Wonderful [Roll Eyes]

This is where the term "October surprise" came from.

If ANYONE here believes these estimates are truthful after a year of the worst violence and every strategist saying Iraq is on the verge of civil war and that we have been "defeated" in Baghdad then I have several continents to sell you...

100.00$ says this time estimate goes away right after the election and they go back to their original one (2010).

I can't believe the republicans are so desperate to win that they would openly endanger our men and women in uniform as well as give Iraq to the terrorists.

[ October 24, 2006, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Liberal ]

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Storm Saxon
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I think it would have been much better if we (Bush) had given a leave date of 2062, but also clearly set forth what we could and couldn't do in terms of civic power in Iraq. This way, we have a set date of leaving, the 'insurgents' and the populace know that we aren't going anywhere for a while, and this gives us plenty of time to work in Iraq while forcing us to work on rebuilding Iraq no matter what happens politically at home.
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