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Author Topic: Darfur again
TommySama
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Tomorrow I am hoping to give a little speech to my history class about Darfur.

I was wondering if anybody knows any good sources for specific numbers; like percentage of men killed. Ratio of men killed to the population.

I was just having a little trouble finding these things, if any of you know off-hand, I'd be very grateful:)

Darfur:(

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javelin
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Stop Genocide Now!.org

quote:
Current Darfur Statistics

* The death toll has reached up to 400,000 people since February 2003
* More than 500 people die each day, 15,000 each month
* More than 2.5 million people have been driven from their homes
* More than 200,000 have fled to refugee camps in neighboring Chad
* As many as 1 million civilians could die in Darfur from lack of food and from disease within coming months
* 80% of the children under five years old are suffering from severe malnutrition and many are dying each day
* Humanitarian aid organizations have access to only 20% of those affected

Brief History of the Crisis
The present Darfur conflict erupted in early 2003 when Justice and Equality Movement and Sudan Liberation Army/Movement rebels attacked and captured the capital in central Darfur. They demanded inclusion in new power-sharing arrangements between the North and the South of Sudan.

Rebellion in Darfur alarmed the Sudanese authorities, posing a threat to the continued viability of the country as a whole. Authorities feared that similarly neglected regions in the east, taking their cues from Darfur, would demand large degrees of autonomy, if not the right to independence. Khartoum became decidedly committed to achieving a military solution to the crisis.

The government's response was to mount a campaign of aerial bombardment supporting ground attacks by an Arab militia, the Janjaweed, recruited from local tribes and armed by the government. The Janjaweed are killing civilians, razing and burning villages, raping women and young girls, abducting children, poisoning water supplies, and destroying sources of food.

The conflict has economic, political and ethnic dimensions. Its economic roots lie in the competition between pastoralists (generally Arab Africans) and agriculturists (generally non-Arab Africans) over resources, such as land and water. Political marginalization has also contributed to the conflict. Finally, it has acquired an ethnic component in which civilians are deliberately being targeted on the basis of their ethnicity.

The United States Congress has labeled the crisis in Darfur genocide. While precious time is wasted with inaction, the Sudanese government's terror campaign continues to kill innocent people.

"As American citizens increasingly raise their voices and write their letters about Darfur, the temperature has indeed risen. But no enough. We need to make it a little warmer, a little more uncomfortable for those politicians who would look away. Just a few more degrees. Just a few more thousand letters. It is, frankly, that simple."
--Don Cheadle and John Prendergast, The Wall Street Journal, March 24, 2005


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The Drake
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My favorite statistic-

Things the EU and the UN have accomplished: 0

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RickyB
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Unlike, say, the US [Big Grin]

the 400K number sounds low, but I could be wrong.

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flydye45
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Three solutions, none very good:

Take out the Sudanese government.

Create a safe zone with a semi permanent garrison of troops ala Northern Watch or the Korean DMZ without the option of the Darfurians defending themselves due to lack of infrastructure.

Provide some military advisors and arms and give them the option of defending themselves. Whee, a civil war.

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Storm Saxon
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quote:

Unlike, say, the US

Well, given that our forces are currently kind of wrapped up with other stuff, we'd be more than happy to contribute to an international force, I would imagine.

My question is, why hasn't an international force materialised? Seriously, it's not like, from anything I've seen, a fairly adequatly equipped military force couldn't provide protection for those being slaughtered and generally stabilize the country while a solution was worked out.

What, exactly, needs to happen for the world to act?

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rightleft22
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60 minutes just did a story on Darfur which left me sick to my stomach. They showed Presenting Bush giving a speech at the UN where he labelled what was happening in Darfur as genocide, the camera paned to the Sudan representatives who were smiling/laughing. Wish I could have smacked that smugness off that face.

Apparently every now and then the Sudan goverment supplies the US with information on Ben Laden and the “War on Terror” and when the US leans on them they use that card to “get out of jail”. (Anyone know if this is accurate?)

War on Terror!!! WTF is genocide?
“War on Terror”… I hear those words and shudder at the paradox.

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The Drake
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quote:
Originally posted by RickyB:
Unlike, say, the US [Big Grin]

The UN can't even spare a word for Darfur, refusing to even label it genocide.

The European Parliament managed to declare it genocide. Two months after the US Congress.

As to what the US has done, however, It was only two weeks ago that HR 3127 - Darfur Peace and Accountability Act was signed into law. This specifically blocks petroleum transactions to the United States (It's all about Oil?).

In addition, the United States has provided One Billion Dollars in humanitarian assistance in Darfur - with $400 million coming during the past 12 months.

But yeah, we're doing nothing, Ricky.

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flydye45
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Europe and the Left have said very harsh things about military adventurism, lack of strategic interests, unilateralism, and distractions from getting AQ and Bin Laden.

Now they notice the corner they've painted themselves into.

So what's YOUR exit strategy? [Big Grin]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Fly, I wasn't aware that Sudan was a member of the Axi of Evil or a hotbed of terrorism abroad. They be busy terrorising the least among themselves. SO I'm not sure which corner Europe has painted itself into here.

They've been consistently unconcerned, yes? They've said that if a terrible regime should be taken out, that Sudan currently rated higher on the list than Iraq (which notion all the above statistics support), but they weren't the ones positioning themselves high horse in the saddle and wearing a big white hat either.

Stop buying Sudanese oil? AFter awhile, the suffering will at least become more egalitarian than not. (Assuming of course the blockade/embargo is not significantly breached.)

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kenmeer livermaile
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"(It's all about Oil?)."

As far as Sudan's democidal tendencies go, the discovery of oil there was the biggest catalyst in the struggles leading to where they are now, as I recall from readings of a few years ago.

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Richard Dey
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Oz: That's right. Before that, the Zoodan had cotton, sesame, livestock, groundnuts, gum arabic, sugar with about $400million in exports. Today it has oil and pushing $4 billion in exports.

The Arabista definitely don't want no cotton pickers lappin' up the oil money.

But it is what the Arabs were willing to do to exclude them, intimidation and genocide, that makes them unworthy.

I still say that this is Egypt's problem, and Egypt will -- I hope -- live just long enough to regret its failure to intervene.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Judging by history, Egypt lives long enough to regret ANYthing...
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Storm Saxon
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So, in conclusion, if anything is going to be done in Sudan to stop the slaughter, it's going to have to be done by the U.S.?

And if that's the case, really, what's the point as "they" will just slaughter each other once we go, and since we can't stay there permanently, what's the point, really?

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kenmeer livermaile
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Well, that's a good question, SS.

If there were one central authoriuty with weaponry vastly superior to everyone else, then that one authority could, say, ultra-nuke the place and stop a whole lotta suffering via euthanasia and issue this message:

y'all wanna stop suffering, just keep on torturing your neighbors.

Ah, to be God...

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TommySama
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"Stop buying Sudanese oil? AFter awhile, the suffering will at least become more egalitarian than not. (Assuming of course the blockade/embargo is not significantly breached.)"

I don't understand this. Our good, peace and life loving friends in China are just buying it all up now. Why don't we STOP oil from being produced at all in the country until they get their sh*t together and pull in the Janjaweed?


"If there were one central authoriuty with weaponry vastly superior to everyone else, then that one authority could, say, ultra-nuke the place and stop a whole lotta suffering via euthanasia and issue this message:"

America could just intervene, kill all militant men in Sudan between the ages of 16-24. That way, when they are able to fight again, their hatred will be directed towards the US instead of Darfurians. What is one more nation of muslims hating us really on a global scale?

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The Drake
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quote:
Originally posted by TommySama:
America could just intervene, kill all militant men in Sudan between the ages of 16-24. That way, when they are able to fight again, their hatred will be directed towards the US instead of Darfurians. What is one more nation of muslims hating us really on a global scale?

If we had a way of identifying all militant men, we'd be using in Iraq by now.

If we don't, well, two genocides don't make a right and all that.

Plus, I'm very excited to see how much better off the world would be without American dominance. Let's cancel all that humanitarian aid to Darfur, and watch Utopia blossom.

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flydye45
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Send in a French wing to bomb the oil refinaries.

If Europe wants to posture about this issue, let them take the heat.

Sudan suddenly bereft of 4 Billion in revenue might get a clue. And it will save a lot more lives then a U.S. intervention.

I am totally against a U.S. intervention at ALL. As Jesse and Ev have pointed out on other threads, it won't take too many professional troops to create a safe zone. We can sit this one out. Let T Turner, Jane, Clooney et al all pony up one mansion each to solve the problem and finance it for a couple of years.

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kenmeer livermaile
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Hollywood as the new enforcer: the new Para-Militarism.

"a) "Stop buying Sudanese oil? AFter awhile, the suffering will at least become more egalitarian than not. (Assuming of course the blockade/embargo is not significantly breached.)"

b) I don't understand this. Our good, peace and life loving friends in China are just buying it all up now."

There's a reason I said: (Assuming of course the blockade/embargo is not significantly breached.) There's also a reason I didn't specifically say: 'Have the USA stop buying Sudanese oil.'

I meant a global embargo. I'm not saying I know how we could bell that cat, mind you.

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