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moodi
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The newest craziness on myspace.com is the question posted among peers. "What would it take for you to kill a puppy?"

Knowing how intelligently sophisticated this question is, I in turn, divert this question to the Ornery bunch.

What would it take for you to kill a puppy?

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simplybiological
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Couldn't, wouldn't, and find the question morally repugnant.
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Tezcatlipoca
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It would have to be the host of the airborne strain of the Ebola virus.
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TommySama
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Not the right question, moodi.

The question should be, "What would it take for me not to kill a puppy?"

They're pretty annoying.

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Jesse
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They don't taste bad.

Mostly, a little hunger.

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ngthagg
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I would kill a puppy if it were threatening Scout and Jem.

ngthagg

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TommySama
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Would you do it for a Klondike bar?
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Ikemook
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quote:
What would it take for you to kill a puppy?
I would have to be alone with the puppy in an evironment where I could get no food (like a desert island). And I would have to have no emotional connection whatsoever to said puppy.

Of course, if the puppy was, say, one of my family's dogs, then I'm not sure. I'd intuitively answer that I couldn't do it, but given enough desperation...

I will say this: if the puppy, be it mine or some random one, died before I did, all bets are off.

And the reverse holds true: if I die before it does, the puppy should feel free to gorge itself.

That also holds for any people. So if I'm on a desert island with any of ya'll, and I die, feel free to cook me ^_~

--David

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WarrsawPact
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It's the puppy or me.
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Tom Curtis
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1) It was suffering, and I couldn't afford the vet bills;

2) I was hungry and had nothing better to eat (although puppies rate very low on my food prefferences);

3) I could not find a good home for it, and could not afford to keep it myself;

4) It persisted in a habit of biting as it approached maturity.

(I have killed poultry for reasons 1 and 2, and don't see what the big deal is.)

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TommySama
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"4) It persisted in a habit of biting as it approached maturity."

Dude, a couple of times a week my friend has me and a couple of kids over to play video games (Halo, to be more precise.) It became custom for us to order 3-6 pizza's each time for everybody to eat. He got an 8-year old dog for Christmas, which bites everyone, but isn't big enough to even break the skin of people it bites.

Anyways, the other day I guess it bit the pizza delivery guy! (When I wasn't there) The dude freaked out and filed a complaint with his manager.


Should I kill it?

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martel
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YES
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seekingprometheus
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Ike:

quote:
I would have to be alone with the puppy in an evironment where I could get no food (like a desert island). And I would have to have no emotional connection whatsoever to said puppy.

Of course, if the puppy was, say, one of my family's dogs, then I'm not sure. I'd intuitively answer that I couldn't do it, but given enough desperation...

I will say this: if the puppy, be it mine or some random one, died before I did, all bets are off.

And the reverse holds true: if I die before it does, the puppy should feel free to gorge itself.

That also holds for any people. So if I'm on a desert island with any of ya'll, and I die, feel free to cook me ^_~

So if we're together on an island and I have a sizable appetite and no emotional connection to you...may the best man eat? [Big Grin]

Tommy:

What's your Halo handle?

[ January 19, 2007, 02:45 AM: Message edited by: seekingprometheus ]

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moodi
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Tommy,

The puppy bit the pizza delivery guy

It bit the hand that feeds you
It bit the man who is sacred to all of us gamers
The symbol of mercy to a horrible cook with an occasional empty fridge.
It bit The Godfather of all college kids.

Kill that furry monster. Hell is surely waiting.

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Tom Curtis
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Tommy -

First, any eight year old dog which cannot break skin when it bites is from a breed not worth having (just a personal opinion).

Second, yes, because your dog could pass on the biting habit (genetic disposition) to offspring which could do serious damage

Third, Moodi got it just right.

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Ikemook
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quote:
So if we're together on an island and I have a sizable appetite and no emotional connection to you...may the best man eat?
Well, I'd prefer that you wait until I'm dead. I'm skinny, and need food often, so it shouldn't take too long ^_~

--David

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Storm Saxon
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I would kill the puppy if it were hiding WMD.

"It's coming right for us!"

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TommySama
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"First, any eight year old dog which cannot break skin when it bites is from a breed not worth having (just a personal opinion)."

It's not my dog. if I got a dog it would be the kind that weighs 250 pounds, can kill a full grown man with one swipe of its paw, and eats 6 pounds of rock a day just because the cat for breakfast doesn't fill it up.

My handle on Halo is "Master Chief" very creative [Smile]

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The Pixiest
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Wouldn't take much. I strongly dislike dogs. They smell bad and bite and are simply filthy creatures.

And the larger they are the worse they are *shudder*

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Pete at Home
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Our puppy Genghis has snapped and bitten on my kids when they roughouse with him, but no serious bites, nothing that broke their skin. We don't spank them, but I think it's OK to let kids suffer a little pain as natural consequence for their own stupid bullying. Teach them not to pick on a creature smaller than them. "Mom, Dad, Genghis bit me," they whine, and we say, "then stop hitting him." "But I was just playing." "Well, if you play mean games, then it's your fault if you get hurt."

But if I was firmly persuaded that the puppy posed a serious threat to my kids, I'd have him put to sleep. In Bali, I got in some trouble for kicking one of their sacred monkeys 10 feet when it attacked Thing One. The folks at the park were mad, and said it was my son's fault because he would not let go of the peanut, but my son was 1 year old; I don't care if it was "his fault;" I'm not going to let him get seriously injured. I don't subscribe to the Odin school of wisdom.

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tonylovern
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it walking in front of my car, and me not seeing it.

viciously attacking me or mine.

starvation.

loud barking at 2 am.

being too lazy to feed it.

a better question i think, would be, what would it take for you to skin a puppy.

it can be killed without touching or even looking at it. anyone who cares little enough could do it accidentally. but most people wont skin any animal, short of starvation.

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MattP
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Killed and skinned a chicken once. It was a very weird experience which I'd rather not repeat, but probably will have to again. It kind of goes with the territory when you keep them as pets. The overly aggressive ones have to be put down and you're being wasteful if you don't use the meat.
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tonylovern
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very true. i have a buddy, who's a taxidermist, and grew up in a hunting family. also i remember plucking chickens at my grandparents place when i was little.

i've seen the insides of many things, twisting the head off of a muskrat wasn't ever wierd to me, it was just someting you did.

i believe i'm a dying breed though. there are certainly few enough people that i've met younger than me, with a shared set of experiences concerning animals. most only know pets, or hamburger.

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RickyB
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I love dogs, so... it would take dire necessity. Not gonna go into a specific scenario, but it would pretty much have to be my life or that of a person I care about. I'm pretty ashamed to say that an obscene amount of money would probably make me do it too. I'm also not very proud to say that a young almost-any-other animal would be much easier for me to kill. I'm a caninist... [Big Grin]
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moodi
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quote:

but it would pretty much have to be my life or that of a person I care about



RickyB,

Would you kill a puppy (even if it is your own) to save the life of a complete stranger?

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Tom Curtis
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Pixiest:

quote:
Wouldn't take much. I strongly dislike dogs. They smell bad and bite and are simply filthy creatures.
Yeah, familly members do tend to have annoying faults, but we love them anyway.

And that's what you get with a dog, a familly member.

Unlike with a cat, when you get a master!

PS: If anyone thinks I'm being inconsistent, you will notice that my reasons 3 and 4 apply because the puppy cannot become a member of the familly. Once its in its in, and I would only kill it to prevent its suffering.

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KnightEnder
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I shot my next door neighbors dog three times with a shotgun.

It had been run over and was suffering terribly. Weirdest feeling wanting to put it out of its misery fast and dreading doing it. One of the hardest things I ever did. I love dogs.


KE

[ January 19, 2007, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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KnightEnder
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But I suppose the question as originally posed is a moral dilema, like how much money would it take for you to perform and unthinkable act. I'm an adult so the question isn't worth wasting my time on. I can see how it would be fun or interesting for young people still trying to determine who they are and what their code of ethics are.

Or is that too deep?


KE

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Tom Curtis
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I think even adults should consider and review their moral intuitions. Of course, I admit this one isn't much of a poser.
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scifibum
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What it would take for me to kill a puppy is a good reason.

Some have mentioned some good reasons that have to do with rather hypothetical circumstances.

I can't think of any good reasons that are likely to come up in the foreseeable future, since I don't own and don't plan to own any dogs. The only one I can envision maybe happening is this: if a puppy (here I use the term to mean "young dog" and not "infant dog") is threatening one or more humans* and some quick violence on my part will end the threat, then I'd kill the puppy. A puppy's life doesn't count against a human's. It doesn't even stack up against a painful human injury (sorry).

*I can't have already decided that those humans ought to be hurt or killed for this scenario to be valid.

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RickyB
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moodi - if that was the only option, then yes. People come before dogs, even though some dogs should be valued more than many men....

But there are some people I would not kill a puppy to save.

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WarrsawPact
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Some people have generalized that if it's a puppy or a human, any human, the puppy's gotta go.

I think that if we really thought it through, the more common position might involve the puppy's value to other humans, including you, relative to that human's value.

Say you've got a puppy that's been bred for life-saving operations. If the puppy and Osama bin Laden are in a life-or-death struggle, and only you decide the victor, with whose brains do you reupholster the cave walls?

Okay, less straightforward/extreme... life-saving puppy, or some old person in a coma?

Life-saving puppy, or deadbeat who's never going to accomplish anything else with his life?

Life-saving puppy, or person who's going to save fewer human lives?

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Jesse
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Everyone knows deadbeats who won't accomplish anything with their lives are for cutting into small pieces and dumping off a freeway overpass.

How could you compare them to the value of *any* puppy?

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Tom Curtis
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quote:
Say you've got a puppy that's been bred for life-saving operations. If the puppy and Osama bin Laden are in a life-or-death struggle, and only you decide the victor, with whose brains do you reupholster the cave walls?
Puppy!

quote:
Okay, less straightforward/extreme... life-saving puppy, or some old person in a coma?
Puppy!

quote:
Life-saving puppy, or deadbeat who's never going to accomplish anything else with his life?
Puppy!

quote:
Life-saving puppy, or person who's going to save fewer human lives?
Puppy!

And now that we've dealt with the repugnant pseudo-ethics, are there any serious questions?

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WarrsawPact
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Pseudo-ethics? Do you even know what you're saying?

I find this funny. Having to choose between killing something that will save lives and someone who will kill innocent people as part of his extreme religious-political program, you choose to kill the thing that will save lives.

Here's a question of ethics: why?
What responsibility do you have for the consequences of your action? You seemed so intent on the matter of human life having some value, but you would rather harm something that saves other human lives than be guilty of harming one life that's determined to harm many other lives?

That's not an expression of belief in human value. That's being squeamish about killing other humans directly, but not apparently caring if your own squeamishness results in more humans being killed.

It's like a discussion we had on pacifism on these boards a while back.

[ January 20, 2007, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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KnightEnder
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Tom, I was assuming/hoping that as adults we had already done this. This question is only boring because I've answered a hundred variations over my life and know what my ethics and morals are.

As for Osaman Bin Laden; since most of us would kill him regardless of the puppy question I don't think it is really valid.

KE

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Tom Curtis
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WP, I'll stand by "pseudo-ethics".

KE, regardless of our opinion of Osama bin Laden, we each may only kill him in self defence (or defence of others) or as a result of due process of law. Even then it should be done only with regret. If his life is indeed being threatened by a puppy, then he is no immediate threat to ourselves or to others. That leaves only due process of law, and we must save his life so that he can face it.

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WarrsawPact
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Really, what separates "pseudo-ethics" from "ethics" other than your opinion of the person asking the question?

So, Tom, given the wildly hypothetical situation that you must either kill a puppy bred to save lives or a man who's not going to be acquitted by any court that can capture him, you kill the life-saving puppy to save the killer's life?
I'm not asking if you'll regret it. I'm placing you in a situation where you must take a life. What you do in this situation isn't pseudo-ethics; it reveals a lot about you.

[ January 20, 2007, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: WarrsawPact ]

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Tom Curtis
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It's pseudo ethics once you put a differential value on people, for what ever reason. Osama bin Laden's life is as valuable as was Mahatma Ghandi's. Once you start saying of this person that their life is worth saving, but of that person, it is not, you've entered the grounds of pseudo ethics. What I think of the person proposing the ethic has nothing to to with it.
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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by moodi:

What would it take for you to kill a puppy?

A sack, a couple of bricks, and a trip to the river. If it takes more than that to kill a puppy you're probably making it more complicated than it has to be.
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