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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » These people just don't learn

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Author Topic: These people just don't learn
RickyB
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/13/politics/13info.html?hp&ex=1103000400&en=bf59e633a9d3e197&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Psyching out the enemy on the battlefield is one thing, but this is both stupid and evil. Stupid because lies get found out really fast in the internet age, and evil because it creates an atmosphere where the government concentrates more on disinfo than on tackling reality.

Then again, Straussians always have been big on this kind of crap, and they always know best.

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Gaoics79
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If they were really very serious about this, then the New York Times would not be writing a story about it...
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FIJC
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quote:
"Psyching out the enemy on the battlefield is one thing, but this is both stupid and evil. Stupid because lies get found out really fast in the internet age, and evil because it creates an atmosphere where the government concentrates more on disinfo than on tackling reality."
I think that these acts are justifiable considering how many lives the planted stories may actually be saving. If the enemy is too stupid to take this into consideration, then I have no sympathy for them.
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philnotfil
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Lying is bad, mmmkay kids?
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FIJC
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quote:
"Lying is bad, mmmkay kids?"
Lying is never a good habit, but I would argue that there are circumstances in life that would warrant justifiable lying for a noble cause--there is such a thing as a noble lie. If I needed to lie in order to save a person's life, I would nonetheless ask for God's forgiveness, but would still be confident that the lie was necessary and justifiable.

quote:
"Then again, Straussians always have been big on this kind of crap, and they always know best."
Oh, and if you really dislike the noble lie concept, then your blame should ulimately fall upon Plato, and not Strauss. Strauss resurrected the concept, but certainly did not invent it.

[ December 13, 2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: FIJC ]

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Sancselfieme
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quote:
If they were really very serious about this, then the New York Times would not be writing a story about it...
Nope, not at the beginning of the process, which is really the only chance we have to stop it.
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RickyB
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Plato was a disgusting fascist. As for noble lies - as an exception, not as a method and a policy. If you need to fool the enemy by lying to the media once in a blue moon, fine. But on a regular basis? Even the pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita gets it. From Reuters:

"There is a bright line of distinction between the age old art of military deception and transmitting accurate information to the public in a timely manner".

Once you begin to lie to the media on a regular basis, that line blurs.

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noah
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The question is not whether the Pentagon should be lying, but why the NYT is doing a story about it - and more importantly, is it a leak or does the Pentagon *want* people thinking that they are discussing it? A little reverse psychology anyone?
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Richard Dey
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Ricky:

"Plato was a disgusting fascist ...". De Res Publica is a parody on Sparta -- not Das Kapital or Mein Kampf.

As for lying to the Media, the masters of that were LBJ (to bad end) and FDR (to good?).

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RickyB
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Richard, although fascism as a political term is a 20th century creature, the phenomenon it describes is as old as human politics. But you know that.

As for lying - LBJ no doubt. FDR though? Not that it couldn't be, just wondering what you mean.

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