Ornery.org
  Front Page   |   About Ornery.org   |   World Watch   |   Guest Essays   |   Contact Us

The Ornery American Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » Zell Miller on the Daily Show

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Zell Miller on the Daily Show
FiredrakeRAGE
Member
Member # 1224

 - posted      Profile for FiredrakeRAGE   Email FiredrakeRAGE   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Tonight, 05/03/2005, Zell Miller appeared on the Daily Show. He spoke on his new book. Jon Stewart and Senator Miller spoke on the tax code (surprisingly, he supports a consumption tax), Social Security reform, Medicare reform, et al. Throughout the (short) presentation, Stewart and Miller disagreed on a few things.

At the end, Jon Stewart remarked that (and I paraphrase) while he disagreed with Zell Miller on almost every topic, he felt that his heart was in the right place.

I just thought it was refreshing to see civil disagreement between two parties, and had to remark on it. I practically cheered when Stewart said that while he disagreed with Miller, he recognized that his heart was in the right place (with regard to the American People, I assume).

--Firedrake

Posts: 3538 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sunil Carspecken
Member
Member # 1453

 - posted      Profile for Sunil Carspecken     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I thought it was amusing when Miller said freedom of speech shouldn't include gangster rap.

But, yeah, I agree with your sentiments...

PS- the horse thing had me in tears (of laughter)

Posts: 333 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Funean
Member
Member # 2345

 - posted      Profile for Funean   Email Funean   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Maybe they read Ornery [Smile] .
Posts: 5277 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
drewmie
Member
Member # 1179

 - posted      Profile for drewmie   Email drewmie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh man. I missed last night. My favorite Daily Show piece is still "Zell on Earth." He tore Miller a new one in a way he hasn't done to anyone else since. Did they talk about that piece? It was after Miller's angry Republican Convention keynote address. I'm surprised Miller came on the show at all after that... except to challenge Stewart to a duel. "That's Zell Miller, buildin' that bridge to the 18th century."
Posts: 3702 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RickyB
Member
Member # 1464

 - posted      Profile for RickyB   Email RickyB   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's Miller's way of being "big" about that episode, and also of adopting a more workable public image than that of "insane venomous abruptly side-switching old crank that his former side will never forgive and his new side will never really trust and has no real use for".
Posts: 19145 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Digger
Member
Member # 2341

 - posted      Profile for Digger   Email Digger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm probably in a minority when I say I'm a fan of Zell. He's been a part of GA politics from the time I was in diapers and he and Sam Nunn are etched in my memory as the quintessential GA politicians. Zell even taught my father history at Young Harris.

Based on that long history, I can honestly say that I feel he's been unfairly maligned during the last couple of years. He is a Southern Democrat, true and true. Which means that he was always a lot more conservative than the current leadership of the Democratic party and as he reached the end of his career, he made a difficult decision to abandon his party.

His last term as Senator was undertaken as a favor to then-Governor Roy Barnes. Zell had intended to retire earlier, but served out the remainder of Paul Coverdale's term at Barnes' request. By the by, Coverdale was a Republican, Barnes a Democrat. At the time of the appointment, Democrats were ecstatic. How the fortunes of war change.

Even if you have no love for Zell or his political positions, one thing that anyone who's followed his history can tell you that he acts out of conscience. His heart really is in the right place.

Posts: 1317 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aupton15
Member
Member # 1771

 - posted      Profile for aupton15   Email aupton15   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Miller was on the Daily Show some time ago, before his meltdown, and expressed many of the same views at that time. Stewart treated him exactly the same way then. I think Miller might understand what many others forget...this show is about entertainment more than news. When Howard Dean gave his little yell, the Daily Show was pretty hard on him too...because that's what they do. Stewart shows his politics during the interviews at times, but they make fun of EVERYBODY...especially if they do something to deserve it.
Posts: 1445 | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
drewmie
Member
Member # 1179

 - posted      Profile for drewmie   Email drewmie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
True, but if Zell Miller really understood the entertainment purpose of The Daily Show, why was it so hard to understand the purpose of Hardball? For goodness sake, IT'S CALLED HARDBALL! It's not called "Butt-kissing with Chris Matthews."

I think he's just trying to sell a less venomous image now that he understands it doesn't sell outside the Bible belt. Most people are turned off by the fire and brimstone preacher politicians, e.g. "I believe in the Prince of Peace... and you're all goin' to hell!"
quote:
Digger wrote: I feel he's been unfairly maligned during the last couple of years.
Are you kidding? This is one of the few cases where nobody is accusing him of anything he didn't actually SAY and actually DO. I'm not saying it's representative of EVERYTHING he says and does. However, unless he claims to have been possessed, it was clearly a reflection of what he believes and how he feels.

P.S.- Of course, I'd believe the possession thing. All that was missing was spitting green slime and a spinning head.

[ May 03, 2005, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

Posts: 3702 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Digger
Member
Member # 2341

 - posted      Profile for Digger   Email Digger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Are you kidding? This is one of the few cases where nobody is accusing him of anything he didn't actually SAY and actually DO. I'm not saying it's representative of EVERYTHING he says and does. However, unless he claims to have been possessed, it was clearly a reflection of what he believes and how he feels."

Sure, if you think the entirety of the man is summed up in a few quotes. But that's not how I see him.

Here's where I think Zell's head is at: He took one for the team when he agreed to go the Senate in Coverdell's seat. I'm not exaggerating when I say he wasn't eager to go. Barnes had to plead with him to do it.

Barnes himself was between a rock and a hard place. A Republican Senator died and it was left to Barnes, a Democrat, to name a replacement. Here in GA, Democrats were pushing him to send a Democrat to Washington, and Barnes knew full well that if he sent a 'typical' Democrat, he'd lose his reelection bid (which he lost anyway). Zell was his best compromise given his immense popularity within the state (see HOPE scholarship for details).

When Zell got to DC, he didn't like what he saw in the Democratic leadership. He made a difficult call of conscience to work with the people he saw as best representing his constituency - the Republicans. Side note: Both Senate seats from GA switched from Democrat to Republican in the last election.

As for the most recent events, keep in mind that Zell is *done* with politics. He wanted to be done several years ago. He's not running for office and the only thing he has to sell these days is books. Its a pretty easy case to make that his more controversial statements of late are going to help those very book sales.

His disgust with the Democratic party and the response to his defection is palpable, to be sure. He's an ex-Marine and he doesn't take abuse sitting down. From the one time I met him, I can tell you that he cuts an imposing figure.

I'll admit he was pretty harsh with Matthews, but I saw that interview, and Matthews was asking for it. He wanted to provoke a reaction. When he got one, it was more than he could handle. I say, go Zell. He wasn't possessed, he was incensed, and rightfully so.

As for his convention speech, that looked pretty calculated to me. Zell isn't known for delivering that kind of brimstone in his addresses. I think he probably accomplished exactly what he set out to do.

If you think that he slipped and let his true personality shine through at that moment, ok. I don't agree with that assessment, though. And besides, he's out of office now. He can't hurt anyone - unless you think his books are going to poison the well for the Democrats.

Posts: 1317 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
javelin
Member
Member # 1284

 - posted      Profile for javelin   Email javelin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think it's pretty valid to play hardball when that's the game.
Posts: 8614 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
drewmie
Member
Member # 1179

 - posted      Profile for drewmie   Email drewmie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Digger wrote: I'll admit he was pretty harsh with Matthews, but I saw that interview, and Matthews was asking for it. He wanted to provoke a reaction. When he got one, it was more than he could handle. I say, go Zell. He wasn't possessed, he was incensed, and rightfully so.
Asking for it? Provoked? Is this the third grade? Last I saw, Zell was an adult. Too bad he can't act like one. Mature people take responsibility for their own actions and statements, not blame them on other people by saying, "He started it!"

Rightly incensed? By what? A hard question by a journalist? Scandal! Outrage! Even if you believe the questions were unfair and accusatory, his behavior is his own. His reaction does not reflect on Matthews unless you believe Matthews controls Miller.
quote:
Digger wrote: As for his convention speech, that looked pretty calculated to me. Zell isn't known for delivering that kind of brimstone in his addresses. I think he probably accomplished exactly what he set out to do.
I think he accomplished it too. He played to hayseed trailer park Republicans who are more interested in spewing bile than having a clear, thoughtful message. Not that that's a new thing to either convention. He just took it up to a level of frothing antagonism that I haven't seen for many years.
quote:
Digger wrote: If you think that he slipped and let his true personality shine through at that moment, ok. I don't agree with that assessment, though.
I don't agree with that assessment either. Like I said, I don't think that single Hitler-esque speach represents the whole man. I have since seen him speak in far more measured tones, and I know he isn't an idiot. And there are many issues on which I'd agree with him rather than Matthews or Stewart.

However, this wasn't an off-the-cuff thing like the Howard Dean yelp. It is one represention of how he thinks and what he stands for. And nobody who is even CAPABLE of that kind of premeditated vomit will ever get my support or respect... or my money for their book.

P.S.- You mention where his "head is at," but you didn't explain why he made his "calculated" speech. In your opinion, what was it calculated to do?

[ May 03, 2005, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: drewmie ]

Posts: 3702 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Digger
Member
Member # 2341

 - posted      Profile for Digger   Email Digger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Last I saw, Zell was an adult."

So is Matthews. Name your show hardball, sow the wind, and see what happens. I'm glad Zell dished it out on that guy.

"He played to hayseed trailer park Republicans who are more interested in spewing bile than having a clear, thoughtful message."

Are you really so bigoted? Trailer park Republicans? Jeez, I thought more of you than that.

What I saw was different. A matter of perspective, I guess. I saw him criticise the current Democrat approach to defense in an over-the-top way. Only a Democrat could have been so effective in delivering that particular message. He made it abundantly clear that until Democrats reform their attitudes on defense preparation and systems R&D they can't be trusted with the country's defense. He put in plain language, but it was dead on.

"Like I said, I don't think that single Hitler-esque speach represents the whole man."

And Godwin has entered the building. Good night.

[ May 03, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Digger ]

Posts: 1317 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
drewmie
Member
Member # 1179

 - posted      Profile for drewmie   Email drewmie   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Digger, it was meant to be ironic and self-depracating. Sorry if it didn't come off that way.

In other words, no matter how extreme I consider the speech, I recognize that Miller has a lot more too him than that. I sometimes use Godwin in that way, to jab at extremes. The point was that he's NOT like Hitler, regardless of the speech. I agree with Stewart in that I believe his heart is in the right place... like Hitler's (doh! there I go again! it's like Tourettes Syndrome!) [Wink]

Posts: 3702 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Digger
Member
Member # 2341

 - posted      Profile for Digger   Email Digger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
drewmie,

No sweat. My only intention when joining this thread was to paint a little fuller picture of a guy I think has been run through the wringer somewhat unjustly.

I know he hauled out the vitriol during the campaign. And it was unlike him. Many people I know back here in Jawja were scatching our heads. We knew he was disenchanted with the Dems, but he *really* came out swinging. Ultimately, we chalked it up to, "he must feel pretty strongly about keeping Kerry out of the White House to do this."

Sorry I didn't fully get the ironicals of the situation. ;-)

[ May 03, 2005, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Digger ]

Posts: 1317 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 99

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"I know he hauled out the vitriol during the campaign. And it was unlike him."

And I hope it destroys his reputation, as his career is already over. It was beneath him; he should never have stooped to it.

Posts: 22935 | Registered: Nov 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Ornery.org Front Page

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.1