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» The Ornery American Forum » General Comments » So Called White Supremacy, Racial Politics with Arabs and Wire Tapping in the Present (Page 1)

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Author Topic: So Called White Supremacy, Racial Politics with Arabs and Wire Tapping in the Present
joshbarrow
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OK, I'm white. Does that mean I'm racist? No. Does that mean that I'm innocent of having some worries or questions about another's race, heritage, etc. No. Is everyone a racist. NO! So, Jesse Jackson (or whoever you are) shut up and see the reality! You can't blame us for every thing and definetly, definetly don't call for our extermination like one of your 'brothers; did just several weeks ago. We will always be here. You will too. We will deal with you as peacefully as possible and you need to deal with us.

Also, I've had enough of this thing that we, as Americans, all hate the Arabs and love the Jew. Blasphemy!!!! (Not to say I don't like the Jews.) We love Arabs just as much as anyone. When I look at an Arab I don't ask myself, "I bet he's in cahoots with bin Laden! I can't go near or talk to him!!!!" Not many people (that I know of) do. And this whole praying on the plane and discriminating against America on the plane business, just don't do it. Jewish and Christian peoples don't go and pray out in public (unless over food, and even then, we usually forget!). And I would be pretty freaked out if you were chanting, "Allah, Allah, Allah," and then asked for seat-belt extenders that could possibly be used as stangling devices when you don't need them and later move to unassigned seats on the plane. That's not racism, that's National Security worries!!! Regular Islamics don't do that!!!

But now, to the profiling and wire tapping issue. Guess what, the FBI and CIA have been doing this for YEARS!! Nowadays, they can turn on your cell phone speech receiver and listen in to your conversation!! And everyone remembers "Enemy of the State." But that's just what those people who they are listening in on or profiling, possible Enemies of the State!! And also, when an Muslim goes through a checkpoint in an airport wearing a big, Elton John style turban and a flowing, pure white silk gown and doesn't get wanded a second time...it just pisses me off. Guess what? What is more likely? A person like the man I described above to blow up a plane in the air or over the ocean, or a white guy named Sean Hannity (who happens to be one of the most second and third time wanded guys, ever) to blow one up? I would chose the Muslim man. But, what can we do to avoid 'Political Correctness?' Nothing. Because as long as this War on Terror (which I firmly support) is going on, we as Americans, a very large group of us (I think) believes all these things, but is afraid to put them into action because of retaliation. Which, heh, we've seen before (i.e. the cartoon uprising days). But it is a problem we need to deal with, and fast.

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Redskullvw
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josh

Welcome to Ornery, you are wrong.

Your rant is certainly heartfelt, but it somehow comes across as written hostility. Maybe you could go and read some of the threads on which we frequently talked about most of the points you made. I think people can discuss their true political and cultural beliefs in a resonable manner without simply making sweeping generalizations. Sweeping generalizations tend towards dogmatic policy and irrelevent policy choices.

Anyway enjoy your stay.

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potemkyn
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"We will deal with you as peacefully as possible and you need to deal with us."

Over 50 shots, need I say more?

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joshbarrow
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What are these "thread" you speak of, Redskullvw? Am I already getting talked about, within 3 hours of setting up an account? <grins hopefully>
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joshbarrow
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What does "Over 50 shots, need I say more?" mean?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Jewish and Christian peoples don't go and pray out in public (unless over food, and even then, we usually forget!).
As someone who is neither Jewish nor Christian, let me point out that you might not notice it because of sampling bias. [Smile]
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Kent
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The board is a place where different topics are discussed. A topic is called a thread. A post is an individual's submission to a thread. There is also World watch which we often refer to as "the other side". When someone says something obscure in quotes, it helps to use Google to find the cultural reference. Catching Simpsons reruns also helps. What am I forgetting?
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joshbarrow
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Thanks.
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potemkyn
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Police shoot unarmed Groom, firing over 50 rounds at him
Don't forget Amadou Diallo, the unarmed African-American who was shot 19 times by undercover cops.

Just these two incidents make me a little skeptical of "We will deal with you as peacefully as possible."

quote:
When I look at an Arab I don't ask myself, "I bet he's in cahoots with bin Laden! I can't go near or talk to him!!!!" Not many people (that I know of) do.
Actually, I can think of a nationally televised incident where Glenn Beck asked a newly elected Muslim Congressman to "prove to me that you are not working with our enemies." CNN! Was the man berated for this incident? Has he lost pay or prestige? The answer is no. If you really believe what you claim to believe here (although your last paragraph tends to make me doubt this), you'd be quite upset with the behavior of this man and even more upset that there has been no reprimand. I think actions have consequences, and the fact is this action doesn't have consequences because too many Americans are actually afraid that all muslims have it out for them.

quote:
And I would be pretty freaked out if you were chanting, "Allah, Allah, Allah," and then asked for seat-belt extenders that could possibly be used as stangling devices when you don't need them and later move to unassigned seats on the plane. That's not racism, that's National Security worries!!! Regular Islamics don't do that!!!
It isn't racism, unless you'd not be concerned if a white man did the same thing. Say, some white guy gets on a plane and says, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" and does what your 'Arab' does. Are you going to call in National Security folks on him?

quote:
But that's just what those people who they are listening in on or profiling, possible Enemies of the State!!
Perhaps there is another "Enemy of the State" movie because the one I saw featured a certain Will Smith who was harassed and such even though he wasn't an enemy of the state. He was the enemy of some bureacrat in Washington with too much weapondry and technology at his disposal. When someone wire taps without oversight, you essentially need to trust that this person has sound judgement and will not exploit this power for his/her own benefit. Minorities know that this power is often abused with regards to them. It happens all the time.

quote:
And also, when an Muslim goes through a checkpoint in an airport wearing a big, Elton John style turban and a flowing, pure white silk gown and doesn't get wanded a second time...it just pisses me off. Guess what? What is more likely? A person like the man I described above to blow up a plane in the air or over the ocean, or a white guy named Sean Hannity (who happens to be one of the most second and third time wanded guys, ever) to blow one up? I would chose the Muslim man.
You hypocrite! At the start you try to tell me that simply beause you are white, there isn't sufficient reason to believe you have a better life than others, and then you flip this? How is this any different?

Situation A: White people have more benefits on average and thus should not be given special accomadations like other minorities.

Situation B: Arabs are more likely on average to blow themselves up and thus should be profiled when getting on or off public transportation.

You can't seriously believe that agreeing with one doesn't lead to the other. Either race and religion matter and thus your race and religion matter, or you must believe that it doesn't matter and you can't just go around trying to scrutinize others because of their race. That's what is commonly known as hypocrisy.

quote:
But, what can we do to avoid 'Political Correctness?' Nothing. Because as long as this War on Terror (which I firmly support) is going on, we as Americans, a very large group of us (I think) believes all these things, but is afraid to put them into action because of retaliation. Which, heh, we've seen before (i.e. the cartoon uprising days). But it is a problem we need to deal with, and fast.
Oh this is great, you don't think the US racial profiles right now? Are you serious? If you are, I've got some police documents you should checkout. Racial profiling is the standard. Obviously, it's not apartheid, but apart from the lone nuts, no one wants that. Racial profiling is being employed as we speak. Another thing, why is more needed? You seem to think this needs to be dealt with 'fast.' Why? How many Arabs/muslims have blown themselves up or conducted terrorist attacks in America to date? There have been next to none since 9/11. There have only been a handful prior to 9/11. Racial profiling for the 1 in several billion is insulting and deserving of a massive and swift kick in the buttocks. It's unnecessary and contradictory to the current policies and thoughts of white America.

Potemkyn

[Edit: Apologies for the vulgarity.]

[ December 14, 2006, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: potemkyn ]

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DonaldD
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josh, exactly what is the problem that you are hoping to "deal with"? And why does it need to be dealt with "fast"?

And Josh - you haven't been paying attention. Some Orthodox Jews have recently been taken off planes after being observed praying together prior to the flight.

You should also be aware that you come off sounding like a racist in training. Just saying.

Welcome to Ornery, Josh. You are wrong.

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TommySama
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"We love Arabs just as much as anyone. When I look at an Arab I don't ask myself, "I bet he's in cahoots with bin Laden! I can't go near or talk to him!!!!" Not many people (that I know of) do."

Well, I certainly do. I think most people do, too. I certainly don't act on any impulse I have deep inside me, I reserve judgement until I see how somebody acts.


"It isn't racism, unless you'd not be concerned if a white man did the same thing. Say, some white guy gets on a plane and says, "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" and does what your 'Arab' does. Are you going to call in National Security folks on him?"

That would be religionism. If an Arab dude walked onto a plane and chanted, "Jesus, jesus, jesus" I'd be like, "Drop hot coffee on yourself?"

If ANYONE came onto a plane chanting, "Allah Allah Allah" I think I'd scream for an airmarshal. Although, anyone who was planning something probably wouldn't chant allah beforehand. It would make it kind of obvious [Wink] . I'm not a proponent of racial profiling in any particular sense, but I wouldn't beat drums and help heads roll if it turned out a few more 16-24 year old male Arabs were checked than 80+ grannies on average.


"You hypocrite! At the start you try to tell me that simply beause you are white, there isn't sufficient reason to believe you have a better life than others, and then you flip this? How is this any different?"

Chill, he's like 13.

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potemkyn
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Tommy,

Do you believe that white Americans have it better than other races?

If that's the case, do you think that minorities should have some added advantage because the dominate race has it better? If not, why?

"I'm not a proponent of racial profiling in any particular sense, but I wouldn't beat drums and help heads roll if it turned out a few more 16-24 year old male Arabs were checked than 80+ grannies on average."
What if the person in question is just 'Arab-looking?' And how do you identify an Arab from a non-Arab?

Racial profiling works about as well as it can be expected. Need I remind people that the majority of terrorist attacks in this country are not and were not carried out by Arabs? White Americans have contributed more than their fair share of bombings in America. Is that threat really that much smaller than the one posed by radical Muslims?

Potemkyn

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joshbarrow
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I love you Tommy!!! Oh, and guys...someday, they're going to have to profile ALL of us, because terror will be so widespread that it will transcend races, religions and possibly even political stature. Wake up an smell the roses, people!!!
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Everard
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"Oh, and guys...someday, they're going to have to profile ALL of us, because terror will be so widespread that it will transcend races, religions and possibly even political stature. Wake up an smell the roses, people!!!"

It already does transcend race, religion, and political stature. There are significant examples of terrorism no matter how you look at it. Remember timothy mcveigh, just as an example?

If there is no racial, religious, or politial profile for terror, then profiling based on those attributes makes no sense. If you profile based on religion, you have no chance of catching McVeigh.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
Remember timothy mcveigh, just as an example?
In fairness to the kid, he probably doesn't.
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Everard
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Erm. Good point. I remember that he's young, but forget that means certain events are beyond his memory range.

I do that with my students, too.

"What the heck are you talking about, Mr. Goldner?" Is a commonly heard refrain in my class when I refer to events of the 90's.

Makes me feel old... and i'm only 27!

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0Megabyte
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I'm like that with the early ninties and especially any time before that.

It's scary, thinking that the television hsows of my youth, the common experiences of my peers and I, are totally lost on these younger ones.

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moodi
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9/11 was a cheap shot by a bunch of losers whom we KNEW were here to harm us and we did nothing to stop them.

I am not advocating leniency here with terrorists anywhere around the globe by any means, but I think some of our politicians (read republicans), passionate conservatives, religious nuts (read right wing Christians and orthodox Jews), and Fox “News” analysts need to chill when it comes to matters such as those related to our liberties.

Yeah, they want the FBI to “monitor” us. The FBI didn’t have a fully-working email system till very recently. The foreign student visa system is a disgrace. We have lost thousands of potential scientists because of the slow and super careful visa process. And don’t believe the crap they feed you that those terrorists were all students. The only reason they were given visas is because they were from the rich Arab countries and were viewed more as money-spending tourists. And don’t get me started on data sharing among homeland security agencies….

You want to support the FBI, spend more money to improve its structure and the way our brave agents operate. Provide them with more equipment and training and cutback on the unnecessary spending and paperwork. That’s how you improve security.

Finally, I have this to say. They can take all of our privacy and freedoms and give us a half-baked secure life. Or they can leave us the hell alone and go fight the ones they should be fighting. If the second choice kills me (on the hands of a terrorist) then be it. At least I’ll leave this earth a free man.

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Jesse
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Ornery 8


Forrest Gump

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joshbarrow
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But guys....If it does trranscent races, religion and political stature and I admit that, don't call me a racist. Thanks.
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Cytania
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Hi Josh, your spiel doesn't work. It's like you are saying 'Don't call me an alcoholic until you know which bourbon I can't live without'.

If you don't want to come over as a racist then try the beauty pageant stance; 'I love all the peoples of the world. Red, brown, yellow, whatever - they are all my brothers and sisters. I pray for world peace, love and understanding'.

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Everard
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well, except you WANT to target one race.
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DonaldD
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Hmmm... it's an interesting problem. What would your world view look like if for fully half your life and probably the whole of your life in which you were actually aware of the world at large, media, etc., muslims have been portrayed as the exclusive root of all evil?
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joshbarrow
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They have been called that. That, though, I don't believe. Yes, there are a few bad apples in the Muslim community, however: there are a few bad apples in the Christian community, like the people in Waco. They were a breakoff of the Adventist faith (of which I am a member) and they were almost as bad as some of these Muslim terrorists. And then there are Christian White Supremacists that believe that all the African Americans need to have hot lead put in their heads (watch the Discovery channel, FBI Files I think, for a progam on that one). So, do you still call me a racist?
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joshbarrow
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The problem, however is that, later...everyone will be considered an enemy. So, wand me a second or third time, strip search me in the future...that is something that I would be willing to go through to protect my country, as long as it is happening to EVERYONE. And also, I have no problem with the FBI or CIA tapping my phone and listening in. I have nothing to hide, do all of you out there who don't like that idea have something to? Because I don't, and believe me...if you guys have a secret, they probably already know it.
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Cytania
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'So, do you still call me a racist?'

No idea Josh, you've been weaving and dancing in this forum faster than Muhammed Ali did in the ring.

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Adam Masterman
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quote:
a white guy named Sean Hannity (who happens to be one of the most second and third time wanded guys, ever)
[Big Grin]

My friend, I think we have located the source of the problem. Keep following politics, start doubting your sources:

http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020826.html

Adam

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joshbarrow
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I'm not trying to spin, sorry if that is what it seems like. All I'm doing is resolving my point.
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Adam Masterman
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Not accusing you of spin, suggesting that you may have been spun. Read the link.

Adam

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DonaldD
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What Adam is saying is if you are using Hannity as anything other than a form of entertainment, you are likely being spun.

The bit that Adam quoted is an example of how out of touch with reality you have become.

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potemkyn
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joshbarrow,

You might want to restate your position in its entirety because you start by claiming that:

a) black leaders are calling for the death of all white people
b) Muslims are okay in your eyesight unless they start acting strange and then they are a national security threat
c) America has not done enough racial profiling and should do more

You seem to be distancing yourself from what you originally posted. So, what exactly are you claiming?

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joshbarrow
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There is only one person who has called for that, who spoke at an Afican American gathering, and was cheered. Even Alan Colmes was against that, and he's just about as left as they get.

Isn't anyone who is acting strange in public thought as a little cookoo or maybe you say to yourself, "What in the world are they doing?" in an innocent, human manner?

They should! At this point in time (though it won't be valid in the future) Muslims are more likely to blow up planes than Mexicans, Whites or Blacks!! This, however, won't be valid in the future because terror wil transcend races, religions and political statures.

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Everard
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Can you please point to the data that indicates muslims are more likely to commit acts of terrorism in the united states then people of other religions?

Israel used a profile to catch suicide bombers at the borders. As soon as the mission planners figured that out and figured out what the profile was, they started getting people who didn't fit the profile to commit terrorism within israel.

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joshbarrow
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That story on the black man calling for,"the extermination of all white people," was shown on 'Hannity and Colmes' and 'The O'Reilly Factor.' It was national news. And take your head out of the CBS and NBC news gutter, and watch something from the other side. Even I watch the NBC Nightly News, and sometimes even 60 Minutes, both fairly liberalized programs. And why do I do this? Well, for a laugh or two and also to see where all these people are coming from.
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Everard
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"There is only one person who has called for that, who spoke at an Afican American gathering, and was cheered. Even Alan Colmes was against that, and he's just about as left as they get."

So is your position that people on the left are more likely to think we should exterminate white people?

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Adam Masterman
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quote:
Even Alan Colmes was against that, and he's just about as left as they get.

Maybe I need to be more clear: 90% of what Sean Hannity says is bulls**t. Its not information, its punditry. Even the people who enjoy Hannity understand that his claims aren't exactly factual. If you think that Alan Colmes is as left as it gets, you are sadly making the mistake of taking Hannity at face value. Forgivable, since you are young, but again, read the link.

Alan Colmes is a political moderate (self admitted), and was chosen specifically for that reason. The premise of Hannity and Colmes is to shift the debate rightward, by putting right wing Hannity against moderate Colmes. Hannity pretends that Colmes is very liberal because it makes Hannity seem more mainstream than he really is. Its political theather posing as debate, and when you take it as actual debate you end up woefully misinformed, as you keep demonstrating. If you want to see someone who actually is "as left as it gets" in American politics, look up Noam Chomsky.

Adam

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joshbarrow
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The same EXACT things can be said about what Alan Colmes says!!! And, no!! For Christ's sake, do you not know?!? The left usually side with the blacks, Everard!! If you actually watch FOX NEWS, you would see how many times black liberals come on there blaming white people for their own behavior looking for approval, sympathy and shelter from the leftists that they have! And guess what? They rebuke them!!! You know why? Because these people (not all of them, just some) don't want to take responsibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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joshbarrow
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For THEIR OWN actions!!! There was one black libby that came and 'H and C' and tryed to blast white people, saying that they were the ones causing this gangster style violence among their people!!!!!!! AND HE BLAMED F-ING SLAVERY!!!!! GUESS WHAT, BLACKS WERE NOT ENSLAVED BY US WHITE PEOPLE, THEIR OWN BROTHERS, THEIR OWN TRIBAL CHIEFS, SOLD THEM INTO SLAVERY FOR A QUICK BUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And am I saying I dont regret slavery, hell no!! Slavery is this country's worst and oldest shame (said Miya Angelue, however you spell it), and that's the truth. But to reach back to that time and blame us, saying weare the root of evil, that is just COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY wrong!!
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TomDavidson
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Wow. Even cutting you some slack for being young, you really come off like an ignorant racist. Is that intentional?
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joshbarrow
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And they aren't the root of evil, neither are the Muslims. Adam and F-ing Eve, the Devil, those bastards are that root!!! Not to mention that evil is an illusion!! Because everyone in this world interpretation of it is different. How in the hell do you think they got people to fly into the Twin Towers, celebrating the death of American citizens and tourists?!? BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT WE WERE EVIL, AND THAT IT IS GOOD TO KILL THE "INFIDELS!" They will go to heaven in their own minds by doing that!!!
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