Or at least her 'machine' has released the shocking news (it was in his book) that he went to a Muslim parochial school when he was a child in India. Totally ignoring the fact that he is a big time Christian who got his start in politics through Christian programs helping people. Him being such a big Christian is my only problem with him.
But I think this could really backfire on Hilary. The first thing I thought was; "What a bitch."
In a political landscape, marred by war and partisan strife, there arose amongst the ruins of the desolate waste known as Maxamericanadian politics, a new hope...
In the midst of the dark age, during the two-thousand and fourth cycle of evolution - since the scourge of mythological fanaticism, Christianity, was inflicted upon the land - the BushCo regime was at the height of it's reign of tyranny. The Bourgoiesie Elite Demolibis had fallen into utter despair after seeing their hopes shattered not once, but twice.
Though it was never proven, both events were widely regarded as the unfortunate results of the machinations of the evil Sith Lords, Darth Rove and Darth Cheney. First, the sabotage of the Dean of Vermont, whose effort to campaign for the support of the proletariat was subverted by agents of the Sith Lord, who unwittingly cajoled the Dean into screaming insanely in front of the masses, ending any considerations they may have had about his competence and quality as the next possible Commander-in-Chief to ascend to the Cherry Blossom throne. Demoralized by his immolation, the Demolibs saw their remaining glimmer of hope ruthlessly crushed by the Swiftboat Cavalry as they stampeded the Winter Soldier's campaign into oblivion.
In the depths of utter despair, there arose a new hope....the golden child of the Demolib Elite, Barak Hussein Osama.
He quickly became the prince of the new Bourgeiosie left because he was everything the old guard was not. He was personable, engaging, charismatic and eloquent. And he was black. After 8 years of reviling and deriding the ni**ers in the BushCo regime, (those despicable Uncle Toms and Sellouts, Cunninglingus Rice and General Colon Power,) the Demolibs were salivating for the chance to put their own Uncle Tom up for election to prove that they are indeed not predjudiced like the evil BushCo tyranny, and that the Demolibs could indeed implement the Sacred Order of Affirmative Action, at the highest levels of the political system!
But Barak Hussein Osama was not prepared for the old guard of the Demolib Elite. From high upon her Senate throne in Chappaquah, New York, the Lizard Queen turned her cold, reptilian eyes towards this new upstart, and was mildly amused that this boy had forgotten his proper place in the Demolib hierarchy! SHE was the one anointed to seize control of the Cherry Blossom Throne of Mexamericanadia in the two-thousand and eight cycle of evolution!
He was to be put down soon enough! The Lizard Queen has unleashed her attack dogs and their formidable arsenal of weapons: slander, fear-mongering, race baiting and xenophobia to dismantle the pretender to the Demolib throne!
Can their be any doubt as to the outcome? The Lizard Queen will utterly vanquish the muslim foe and ascend to her rightful place upon the Cherry Blossom Throne, and commence a thousand years of a new reign of terror. Oh how the proletariat masses will suffer under the iron grip of the Lizard Queen's universal healthcare...and the golden child, Barak Hussein Osama will become nothing but just another head decomposing amidst the rest of her decapitated foes, assembled in an orderly fashion upon the pikes that line the walls of the Lizard Queen's Palace in the District of Columbia...
lol - Wormtongue? Nah, he's Palpatine, the evil Emporer who stole the Cherry Blossom Throne by fraud from the land of Broward...who else would rule over the Sith Lords, Darth Cheney and Darth Rove?
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If I, a touchy-feely liberal white woman, don't want to vote for Hilary, NO ONE WILL. She needs to sit down and shut up.
Obama, on the other hand... aside from being one of the only politicians I've ever agreed with while he was speaking, he's terribly yummy to look at. Which doesn't factor into my vote, but certainly doesn't hurt.
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Palpatine has a certain dignity, Daruma, despite his ginormous bobble-head. Can't be giving that to W. And he certainly doesn't and can't rule over the Sith Lords, for crying out loud! The strings get in the way, for one thing.
quote: If I, a touchy-feely liberal white woman, don't want to vote for Hilary, NO ONE WILL. She needs to sit down and shut up.
No way! She needs to be loud and distract every Clinton-hatin' right-winger until the last minute, then get out of the way of more electable(and now less tarnished) other Democratic candidates.
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#1 - Obama is too inexperienced to be a good President. For goodnes sake, he is a freshman in Congress. Now, some may claim this may be a good thing, but this country deserves better, seriously experienced leadership. #2 - Why does everyone love Hillary Clinton so much? The aggrieved woman thing? The term to describe her is carpetbagger. She went into NY to do nothing else but open the path to a political career. My wife, another Conservative Republican, puts it best. She feels that Hillary has absolutely no self respect because she did not throw her bum of a husband out on his ear and agrees with me she is only self serving and power hungry. Her husband is not much of a human being when he can seriously debate that he did not have s-x with the intern girl, Monica. Have we lost that much sense in this country that we can seriously consider this type of self serving behavior valid from a person in a leadership role? And that is from both Hillary and her ne'er-do-well husband. #3 - The level of disdain for our sitting President, GW Bush, on this forum rather unsettling. Like him or not, the fact is until sometime around the end of January 2008, he the CIC of the USA. With all the powers, rights and duties that implies. Go back and research who voted to authorize the current actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. That is part of the historical record. Revisionism is not valid here. They cannot renege for whatever stated reason and expect to be taken seriously by the adults in this country.
Sorry, Hobo, but disdain for GWB is much more of a National than Ornery phenom.
I don't know if you read the intro, but we don't respect titles around here
"It turns out 'Obama' means "Menapausal White Womans Worst Nightmare"-I forget, Leno or Letterman
Oh, and he went to a 'muslim' school in Indonesia, not India. Mostly, it was the only school around. He didn't really 'discover' his faith until his twenties, before that he was just not religious.
He'd be an idiot to let himself be made VP, by the way. He's a young enough man that even if he doesn't get the nomination he's still got at *least* one good run left in him.
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Tom, you probably didn't need seriously experienced leadership 6 years ago, but after these past 6 years (plus the upcoming 2) you undoubtedly will need seriously experienced leadership.
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I had heard tha Obama went to a Saudi-funded Madrassa in Indonesia. His father and stepfather were both Muslims. Apparently his stepfather, an Indonesian Muslim, was quite devout--hence Obama's attendance at a Wahabbi-run Madrassa.
Should this matter now?
No, especially if Obama has been up front about it.
I have not read his book(s?). Those who claim to have read them say he concealed this aspect of his upbringing.
If this IS the case, Hillary is justified in making this an issue.
Do I like Hillary? About as much as colon polyps.
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I have read Audacity of Hope, and no, he does not conceal that his Father was from a Muslim family and his Step-Father was a Muslim or that he went to a Muslim school in Indonesia for a few years.
It was not a madrassa, at least in the common Western use of the word. Madrassa, as we tend to use it, refers specificly to something more akin to a seminary.
It is possible to say accurately that someone attending a public grade school in the US is attending a madrassa, although few of us would use the Arabic word. The word really does just mean "school".
As far as it being "Saudi-funded", I would need concrete evidence before believing the claim.
This was in 1967-71, before the Saudi effort to take over the education of Muslim boys world wide had really gotten under way.
He lived in Indonesia from the ages of 6-10. While it's not possible to prove a negative, even if the school he attended did recieve Saudi funds, I doubt he was all that aware of it
quote:I had heard tha Obama went to a Saudi-funded Madrassa in Indonesia. His father and stepfather were both Muslims. Apparently his stepfather, an Indonesian Muslim, was quite devout--hence Obama's attendance at a Wahabbi-run Madrassa.
This is not more than glancingly true. Obama's father was an agnostic; Obama attended a non-Wahabbi Muslim school (not a seminary) in Indonesia for two years before switching to a Catholic school.
Unlike Obama, I have actually BEEN a Muslim. Am I a danger to the country? Or am I less of a risk because my middle name is "Edward?"
According to insight magazine, linked above:
quote:In the book, Mr. Obama briefly addresses his education in Indonesia. "During the five years that we would live with my stepfather in Indonesia, I was sent first to a neighborhood Catholic school and then to a predominantly Muslim school; in both cases, my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables."
Insight Magazine also claims that Hilary's camp is claiming that the "madrassa" was Saudi funded, but they have no proof.
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The claim is that Hilary's "machine" is touting that Obama went to a madrassa.
Other than Insight magazine, of questionable authority, what sources do you have?
Not to get conspiratorial, but wouldn't this be a great way to get the Democratic infighting going really well?
Many of the Democrats who authorized the use of force in Iraq explicitly said a condition of approval was that force was the last resort. Bush did not exhaust other opportunities (Gerald Ford concurred on my opinion), so their approval can be considered revoked. Not to mention that they authorized force to unseat Saddam. The undeniable incompetence subsequent to that is also validation for retracting support.
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Reactions to the story from both Obama's and Hilary's camp:
quote:Instead, the article claimed, Obama only "alluded" to attending a mostly Muslim school.
The claims were clearly aimed at both punching holes in Obama's biggest asset - his authenticity - while trying to instill fears among voters who connect Islam to terrorism. It also painted the Clinton camp as being behind the slime job.
Obama's top strategist, David Axelrod, strongly denounced the story as a fabrication.
"This is the kind of divisive, destructive garbage that has littered our politics for a long time," Axelrod said.
"He was not raised as a Muslim, and he did not go to a madrassa. It is a complete contrivance, and its purpose is clear. They're just selling people short."
In his book and in interviews, Obama has talked about his father, a non-practicing Muslim who divorced his mom when he was 2 years old and moved back to Kenya.
His mother remarried and moved to Indonesia, where Obama studied for two years at a private school and then two years at a Catholic school - all before his teenage years. Axelrod said the private school was not religious.
He said it was attended predominantly by Muslim kids, and there was a weekly comparative religion course.
Obama and his family currently attend the Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.
The Insight piece claimed the "research" about Obama was done by people "connected" to Clinton's camp, but Axelrod said he didn't "believe that for a second."
Clinton's aides blasted the story as an attempt to tar both her and Obama. "We have no connection to this story," said spokesman Howard Wolfson, noting the magazine is owned by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon-founded Unification Church.
"It is an obvious right-wing hit job by a Moonie publication and an attack on both Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama."
"Rev. Sun Myung Moon-founded Unification Church."
For those who don't know why that's relevant, or think folks are just picking on a wacky cult for fun...
quote:"The separation between religion and politics," he has observed on many occasions, "is what Satan likes most." His gospel: Jesus failed because he never attained worldly power. Moon will succeed, he says, by purifying our sex-corrupted culture, and that includes cleaning up gays ("dung-eating dogs," as he calls them) and American women ("a line of prostitutes"). Jews had better repent, too. (Moon claims that the Holocaust was payback for the crucifixion of Christ: "Through the principle of indemnity, Hitler killed 6 million Jews.") His solution is a world theocracy that will enforce proper sexual habits in order to bring about heaven on earth.
quote:Why does everyone love Hillary Clinton so much?
Didn't we all just say we can't stand her? I'm a liberal middle class white woman and even I can't stand her.
I'd gotten the point where I was starting to like her, but this little thing brings me back to the days when she tried to start a rumor that Bush #41 had had an affair, based on a third hand account that a dead person had seen them stay in the same house during a business trip.
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quote:Tom, Referring to a Ba'hai as a Muslim is kind of a stretch. The Ba'hai's I spoke to pitched it more as a new age hybrid.
Indeed, American Baha'is (note that the apostrophe is after the "a;" the word is "baha") will often do so, depending on how they were recruited to the religion. In America, Baha'is recruit by plugging the religion's emphasis on peace, inclusion, racial and sexual equality, etc.; they experienced their most recent boom in this country in the late '70s, as part of the "New Age" movement, and there's some intersection between people who joined then and, say, crystal-believers. In theory, Baha'is are supposed to regard as their own scripture all the scriptures of all nine recognized major religions; in practice, cultural bias means that most Baha'is are most familiar with and closest to the religious traditions of their home countries.
These American Baha'is are often regarded with the same pity and contempt that European Catholics reserve for their American cousins.
While it's not strictly accurate to call Baha'is "Muslim," in the same way that it's not accurate to call Mormons "Protestant Christians," enough of the ritual and belief of Islam is still written into and required of the religion that almost all non-American Baha'is consider themselves Islamic. In fact, Baha'is are generally persecuted much more harshly in Islamic countries than Jews or Christians, since they're regarded as apostate Muslims.
If I described a religion which required you to abstain from alcohol and other mind-affecting drugs (in any quantity, even in cooking or for medicinal purposes), expected you to pray at three specific times a day while facing the cardinal direction of a given shrine, had written prayers of great length and beauty that were enshrined as scripture, had no formal clergy, encouraged the keeping of dietary laws, observed a long fast between sunup and sundown for a solid month, believed in progressive revelation, required a pilgrimage to Arabia of all worshippers, believed difficulty to be a test of God and salvation a consequence of works instead of faith, and believed God to be an unattainably wonderful, incandescently perfect being, I'd have to throw in some other details to differentiate the two.
There ARE differences, and some are fairly consequential. Baha'is are what you would get if you crossed relatively liberal Sunnis with Mormons and threw in half a Quaker. In ritual, prayer, and belief, though, they're considerably more Islamic than even the Sufis. (This can, as you might imagine, cause tension between the more "Islamic" European and Arabian Baha'is and the Americans, who're in most ways basically Universalists.)
It will backfire at her because the Reds are already exaggerating the claim she (or her machine) has made.
It is, however, her mistake and she will probably pay for it.
On a separate but related note, I have been listening to conservative radio stations recently and one major conservative host kept pounding at the fact that Obama's stepfather was Muslim.
Which conservative station? Seems an odd thing to say, because according to all Muslim teachings that I've heard on the subject, Obama would be considered "born Muslim" because his father was Muslim, and therefore Obama's conversion to Christianity would mark him as an "apostate" Muslim, which in many places would mark him with a death sentence.
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These kinds of attacks (Obama lied about being a Muslim, Hillary tried to smear him for it) probably would have had bite and staying power just a couple of years ago. Unfortunately for Republicans, unless we start winning in Iraq and Bush regains a measure of popularity, they can't expect to win many controversial public perception battles.
Interesting point on apostacy, Pete. I wonder if having an apostate president would further sour our relations with the Muslim world, or if they would even consider him an apostate.