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Author Topic: Iraqi Blogger on US morons
Colin JM0397
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Riverbend

Interesting point she made the other day:
quote:
And yet, as the situation continues to deteriorate both for Iraqis inside and outside of Iraq, and for Americans inside Iraq, Americans in America are still debating on the state of the war and occupation- are they winning or losing? Is it better or worse.

Let me clear it up for any moron with lingering doubts: It’s worse. It’s over. You lost. You lost the day your tanks rolled into Baghdad to the cheers of your imported, American-trained monkeys. You lost every single family whose home your soldiers violated. You lost every sane, red-blooded Iraqi when the Abu Ghraib pictures came out and verified your atrocities behind prison walls as well as the ones we see in our streets. You lost when you brought murderers, looters, gangsters and militia heads to power and hailed them as Iraq’s first democratic government. You lost when a gruesome execution was dubbed your biggest accomplishment. You lost the respect and reputation you once had. You lost more than 3000 troops. That is what you lost America. I hope the oil, at least, made it worthwhile.


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Lobo
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tired
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pickled shuttlecock
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Yes, the oil definitely made it worthwhile. I've got my 1000-drum prize direct from the Republican party - how about you guys?
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kenmeer livermaile
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Some people got connections. Don't burn it allc in one place, ps.
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libdisemboweler
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Yes, we've lost. Mostly though we've lost because we haven't been hit again as hard as we were on 9-11. Yet.

That's the biggest disappointment for liberals in America today.

But be patient though libs. Keep chipping away and one day your perseverance may just pay off with a bright shiny mushroom cloud blooming over a major American city, one to match the 'shroom induced hallucinations and voices telling you America is losing in Iraq.

But not if I have anything to say about it.

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Everard
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"Yes, we've lost. Mostly though we've lost because we haven't been hit again as hard as we were on 9-11. Yet.

That's the biggest disappointment for liberals in America today."

As a liberal in america, I can honestly say that you are extraordinarily wrong about this, and that you think so says more about yourself then about liberals.

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DonaldD
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LDB, I'm trying to figure out whether you think Riverbend or jm0397 is a "liberal in America"
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MattP
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quote:
But be patient though libs. Keep chipping away and one day your perseverance may just pay off with a bright shiny mushroom cloud blooming over a major American city, one to match the 'shroom induced hallucinations and voices telling you America is losing in Iraq.
Wow. I can get that there is some line of reasoning that opposing the republican agenda or the war in Iraq could lead to nuclear attack in American. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can at least understand that people believe it and that those people believe it is a reasonable position. The idea that there is a large segment of the US population that wants a nuclear attack strikes me as so absolutely moronic that I'm just stunned that anyone would make it.
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Daruma28
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Riverbend is the eldest daughter of a Saddam-appointed ambassador, and a high ranking Ba'athist, to a western country during the eighties. Evereything she has ever posted on her blog is anti-occupation, anti-US...and she often posts longingly about how great Iraq was under Saddam.

So I'd take just about everything she writes with a grain of embittered salt.

[ March 05, 2007, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Daruma28 ]

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Tezcatlipoca
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She is talking out against the government. She and her family must be tortured and shot.
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LetterRip
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Daruma,

an anonymous post in a blog does not a fact make.

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/zeyad/110711753912984148/#175868

The author claims to 'personally know' both Raed and Riverbend which seems pretty unlikely.

Also she has specifically stated she was not a Ba'athist,

quote:
"Strangely enough, I wasn't a Ba'athist and I got accepted into one of the best colleges in the country based solely on my grades in my final year of high school. None of my friends were Ba'athists and they ended up pharmacists, doctors, dentists, translators and lawyers… I must have been living somewhere else." -Girl Power and Post-War Iraq by Riverbend, Tuesday, September 16, 2003
Girl Power and Post-War Iraq

So any claim that she was/is especially without a credible source making such a claim is suspect.

LetterRip

[ March 05, 2007, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: LetterRip ]

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libdisemboweler
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> LDB, I'm trying to figure out whether you think Riverbend or jm0397 is a "liberal in America"

I'm just speaking generally, not about any one person in particular. I try to stay away from personal attacks.

Lobbing grenades is more my style.

> The idea that there is a large segment of the US population that wants a nuclear attack strikes me as so absolutely moronic that I'm just stunned that anyone would make it.

You haven't been to the places I have, obviously. The Yahoo boards are closed, but there were plenty over there who were very much looking forward to America getting its comeuppance. Many Americans believe we deserved 9-11. Many of the same also believe that the Iraq invasion is illegal, immoral, and a crime against humanity. If we deserved 9-11 BEFORE we invaded Iraq, how much worse do we deserve to be hit again right now?

Now I wouldn't try to put a number on how many people believe this, but there are some out there.

It's not a matter of just opposing the Republican agenda or opposing the war in Iraq. The fact is that there are terrorists trying to acquire nukes and use them in America. Jose Pedilla and his dirty nuke could have become a reality.

I think the main point is that liberals underestimate our enemy. They don't take the Islamofascists seriously. Many conservatives (Pat Buchanan excepted) do take this enemy VERY seriously. We are in more danger now than we ever were from Japan or Germany.

As Sarah Connor put it, "Anybody not wearing two million sun block is going to have a real bad day, get it?"

Either libs don't think it can happen, they don't care, or for some they're looking forward to it.

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MattP
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quote:
Now I wouldn't try to put a number on how many people believe this, but there are some out there.
There's a different between "some out there" and "libs" which, absent qualifications, refers to all liberals.

quote:
Either libs don't think it can happen, they don't care, or for some they're looking forward to it.
False dilemma
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0Megabyte
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"You haven't been to the places I have, obviously. The Yahoo boards are closed, but..."

Yahoo boards? Ugh.

The internet allows people to say things they'd never say to someone in the real world. Whether it means its their real thoughts or not is something different. Maybe. Maybe not. Regardless, there are plenty of extremists to go around. Extremists tend to be rather absurd.

However. Saying that the Iraq war was bad is NOT extremist. Saying America deserved 9/11, deserves another terrorist attack, or whatever, that IS. Such people disgust me, to wish harm upon anyone. What you;re doing, however, is lumping good and valid opinions with dreck. Learn how to tell the difference.

But I notice... something interesting.

Libdisemboweler?

As in, disemboweler of liberals?

Why, exactly, would you give such a vitriolic statement?

First, do you actually believe that liberals are

A.) a single, unified group;

B.) that a large or even significant group of them wish America harm

C.) That the mainstream liberals do not have America's best interests in mind?

D.) Are the same as the dreck-minded extremists who wish America to die?

Because, you know extremists are vocal. Especially in places like Yahoo chat rooms and what not, where they can spout off all sorts of crap without any trouble.

If I based my views on conservatives on the absolute worst extremists, I'd ask why you want to continue lynching black people, as an example.

That's not exactly a fair comparison, is it, to be compared to KKK? It's the same way it's not a fair comparison to compare liberals to those who wish America to be destroyed, or who want to go back to pre-agricultural societies or whatever.


Forgive me if I'm overreacting against you, I just tend to get annoyed at people who claim things that piss me off and I know aren't true.
----

As for the Islamic threat, sure they're dangerous. But they aren't the thing that can destroy our nation.

Can they invade us and replace our government? No.

The worst they can do is a few pitiful attacks that kill many, many fewer people than die on American highways in traffic accidents. Hell, they're no more effective in their goals than the anarchist terrorists were back at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century. Certainly much less of a threat than the Soviet Union at any point.

Now, a nuclear bomb IS a significant threat, and measures definitely need to be taken to keep them from getting their hands on those.

But they'd need a LOT of bombs to "destroy" America.

And a nuclear blast would mean that we go and kick everyone's asses. Trust me, if we got hit by one of those, I'd be the first to volunteer to go lay waste to whoever nuked us.

----

As for Iraq. Iraq wasn't the source of the terrorists. Iraq wasn't where Al Qaeda was. It wasn't a serious threat, and it didn' have WMDs, and faulty information was used to bring us into the war.

No, it wasn't the right thing to do.

We should have continued to focus in Afghanistan, we should have made sure the Taliban were taken out permenantly, and hunted down Al Qaeda even more than we already are.

This current war, though, could have been done better, too, if the strategists had been allowed to do their thing without political interference. That would have been preferable. I don't think we should have done it at all, though.

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libdisemboweler
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If I say libs or liberals, of course it's not going to apply to each and every one out there, but I grow weary of mitigating words and disclaimers and fine print that points out that I'm only talking about some liberals. That weakens the rhetoric too much for my stout tastes.

As for a nuclear blast, who's to say that we ever find out the party responsible? Then who are we going to attack?

Another thing about underestimating these terrorists is thinking they need stockpiles of WMDs to do major damage. Remember the Aum cult that attacked Tokyo subway trains with sarin gas?

There was a real hero that day. A conductor noticed the gas spewing forth from a plastic bag, and without hesitation ran to it, tied it up and threw it into a covered garbage can. Then he immediately died. There is a good book about it called "Underground".

Now this guy is a hero (I understand they even made a statue in his honor in Australia) because not only did he do the bravest thing imaginable, but he also thought fast enough to know what to do. He could have saved himself too by running to open air ahead of the gas dispersal pattern.

Now for all of those disappointed about how we didn't find massive stockpiles of sarin gas in Iraq, how much do you really think it takes? The fact that Saddam was non-cooperative is enough in my book to justify our abrogation of the cease-fire which left him in power, a cease-fire Saddam reneged on every single day of the sanctions by targeting and firing on aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone.

My point is with weapons of mass destruction, they don't need as much as you seem to think in order to bring America to our knees. And reacting afterward, after more of our fellow Americans are dead, is entirely unsatisfactory. In fact, it is almost entirely useless.

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kenmeer livermaile
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"My point is with weapons of mass destruction, they don't need as much as you seem to think in order to bring America to our knees"

Oh my. I hadn't realized what a pathetically weak nation we really were until you explained it to me, libdis. I better move someplace with balls, like Japan.

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MattP
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quote:
If I say libs or liberals, of course it's not going to apply to each and every one out there, but I grow weary of mitigating words and disclaimers and fine print that points out that I'm only talking about some liberals. That weakens the rhetoric too much for my stout tastes.
If your stout rhetorical requires that you slander an entire swath of the population based on the rantings of a vanishingly small minority, then your rhetoric is based on deception.

Can you point to any prominent liberal voice who has advocated a nuclear attack on the US? I guarantee you that I can find at least one well-known conservative that believes the 9/11 attacks were a punishment from God and that we did, in fact, deserve it.

[ March 05, 2007, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: MattP ]

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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by libdisemboweler:
Yes, we've lost. Mostly though we've lost because we haven't been hit again as hard as we were on 9-11. Yet.

That's the biggest disappointment for liberals in America today.

But be patient though libs. Keep chipping away and one day your perseverance may just pay off with a bright shiny mushroom cloud blooming over a major American city, one to match the 'shroom induced hallucinations and voices telling you America is losing in Iraq.

But not if I have anything to say about it.

Damn it Libdisemboweler, you've found us out. It's what all liberals secretly want. We hate freedom, democracy, and western living, and secretly root for terrorists. We tirelessly campaign for abortions for all, compulsory buttsex in school sex education, free condoms for minors, the outlawing of religion, marijuana for everyone, and pornography on PBS, because deep down we want the entire western world to crumble and be overwhelmed by a wave of rampaging ragheads that are only being held back today because there's still a few God-fearing conservatives who can make the right decisions.
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libdisemboweler
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> Rallan

> Damn it Libdisemboweler, you've found us out. It's what all liberals secretly want. We hate freedom, democracy, and western living, and secretly root for terrorists. We tirelessly campaign for abortions for all, compulsory buttsex in school sex education, free condoms for minors, the outlawing of religion, marijuana for everyone, and pornography on PBS, because deep down we want the entire western world to crumble and be overwhelmed by a wave of rampaging ragheads that are only being held back today because there's still a few God-fearing conservatives who can make the right decisions.

I KNEW it! I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT all along!

You libs never had ME fooled for an instant!!!

[Eek!]

As for generalizing about liberals, don't be so sensitive libs. And try not to flatter yourself too much either. I'm not necessarily talking about YOU personally.

[ March 05, 2007, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: libdisemboweler ]

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Carlotta
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Rallan, MattP? The one thing no one has pointed out to lib-d is that TIMECUBE answers all.

[ March 06, 2007, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Carlotta ]

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MattP
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You cannot think opposite of lies you are taught to think.
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RickyB
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She's back! [Big Grin]

Daruma, please show me posts where she speaks "longingly", as you say, for how great things were under Saddam. If you mean in general before the current "troubles" started (that's April 2003, for you sports fans keeping score at home), that's something else. But show me where she supported Saddam specifically, please.

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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by libdisemboweler:
> Rallan

> Damn it Libdisemboweler, you've found us out. It's what all liberals secretly want. We hate freedom, democracy, and western living, and secretly root for terrorists. We tirelessly campaign for abortions for all, compulsory buttsex in school sex education, free condoms for minors, the outlawing of religion, marijuana for everyone, and pornography on PBS, because deep down we want the entire western world to crumble and be overwhelmed by a wave of rampaging ragheads that are only being held back today because there's still a few God-fearing conservatives who can make the right decisions.

I KNEW it! I KNEW IT! I KNEW IT all along!

You libs never had ME fooled for an instant!!!

[Eek!]

As for generalizing about liberals, don't be so sensitive libs. And try not to flatter yourself too much either. I'm not necessarily talking about YOU personally.

Who's being sensitive? I'm just lazily taking the piss out of you on my day off because you've done nothing since you got here except make other conservatives embarassed to have guys like you on their side [Smile]
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KnightEnder
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Yes, hardening our borders, defending ourselves, while not CREATING more terrorists is definitely a sign that we won't to destroy our own country. [Frown]

As for the original blogger; if we're losing, who's winning? You should pray to Allah that we still think some of you are worth saving. And oil justs went up another .30 cents.

KE

[ March 06, 2007, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: KnightEnder ]

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Colin JM0397
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Did Glen Beck go and join our little community when I wasn't looking? [Embarrassed]
He was actually entertaining before he got too big for his britches.

Libdisser - I have some news that you might find disconcerting, although you don't me from a hole in the ground so it won't register one bit.

"Liberals" are not the enemy. There is an "us and them" power struggle going on, but it's not the one you think it is. You are a pawn in the train wreck that keeps most people mislead enough to not think about what is really going on.

The ultra lib leftists (you won't find any of those caricatures here) do indeed seem to relish the attacks on America and blame our foreign policy. The strange thing is, many of these folks are also conspiracy theory types who say Bush and his Neocon masters perpetrated the attack... So which is it, do the ME terrorists hate us for our policies so they lashed out, or are they incompetent and Bush did if for them?

What you need to do is learn to separate the kernel of truth from the chaff of hyperbole.

Are many folks in the ME po'ed at America and our policies? Of course they are. Some of that is real, and some of it is chaff perpetrated by their own governments to keep their people eyeing their ME version of the train wreck and distracted enough to not complain about the domestic crap too much.

If you learn to look at all sides without this myopic problem you seem to have, you'll see there are valid ideas and points as well as just plain silliness from all over the political spectrum.

The optimist in me says maybe if I do this 100 times I’ll get through to 2 or 3 people. The cynic in me wonders why I bother. Perhaps inspiration will strike and you’ll surprise us all, but I doubt it.

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Colin JM0397
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I used to read her blog in the early days of the war.

She never sounded like a Ba'athist to me, and IIRC, she was a bit of a fence sitter on the invasion but seemed happy to see us at first.

Over the years, she's grown more bitter and despondent. True, it's only one voice, but in the early days she seemed to be very much a voice of rational reason, so it's very concerning to me that this educated, smart Iraqi has grown so morose and negative towards not only our presence there but life in general.

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Rallan
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightEnder:

As for the original blogger; if we're losing, who's winning ?
KE

Um... the Kurds?
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Colin JM0397
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Iran is the biggest winner hands down of our ME adventures. Strange, they don't seem very grateful, now do they?

The cold war, high-intensity mind set of most in the US and, even worse, the US military tells us the more of them we blow up, the more we're "winning". Iraq is not Vietnam, yet that's a lesson we "learned" there, also.

A softer, long term approach is what would go a long way to helping us salvage any kind of "win".

From the evil of all evil organizations (said somewhat sarcastically): Max Boot's Statement Before The House Armed Services Subcommittee on Terrorism, Unconventional Threats, and Capabilities
quote:
There is widespread concern, including within the armed forces, that a predilection for “kinetic” solutions has made the situation in parts of Iraq worse, not better. In this regard, I was stuck by an op-ed published recently in the Baltimore Sun (“Military Must Share the Blame,” June 20, 2006) by a Marine officer named Erik Swabb who served in Fallujah in 2004-2005. He writes that prior to deployment, “We did not understand certain dynamics at play, such as the notion that excessive force protection alienates the populace, reduces intelligence and, therefore, makes one less secure. We knew how to raid a house but not how to build local relationships and learn where insurgents were hiding. We did not know these crucial aspects of counterinsurgency because we had never received training about them.”


[ March 06, 2007, 10:04 AM: Message edited by: jm0397 ]

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tonylovern
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i know nothing, in fact, i've made it a point to know nothing, since the day i realized, how much this whole mess offends me. theres nothing i can say to change it. i dont have the power to ressurect. i'm still working out the bugs on my time machine. i dont have high powered political connections who can tell me whats really going on. my mind control ray, while working and effective, is currently being borrowed by brittany spears, so she can continue to grab attention, while her career makes that last circle around the drain.

so what, with all of my impotent rage, at the atrocities carried out in the name of my freedom, could possibly motivate me to say something supportive of the war?


quote:
But be patient though libs. Keep chipping away and one day your perseverance may just pay off with a bright shiny mushroom cloud blooming over a major American city, one to match the 'shroom induced hallucinations and voices telling you America is losing in Iraq.


bright shiny mushroom cloud? can you speak without hyperbole? does your stout rhetoric always include an attempted production of synthetic hysteria?

do you have any idea, how complicated, the detonation, of any nuclear device is. any, and i do mean any, misfiring, will result in little more than a few sticks of dynamite going off. have you really not been watching iran try to struggle with building, one of these things, while north korea struggles with building an effective delivery system.

i'm betting that your one of the people that thinks the blueprints for a nuke you can find on the net are real.

north korea, and iran together, might be able to build a nuke, with a delivery system. one nuke. one nuke before the rest of the free freaking world comes slamming down on them. yes, a single nuke will be an atrocity. the thousands we have waiting in response, would level any country foolish enough to support the one.

the only support i've ever shown for the war comes now. when it's done. when it's finally over, and there was no nuclear holocaust. when all of the pain, torture and killing over this situation is ended. when no nuclear holocaust has occured. one good thing will come of all of this.
it will be a bright shining example, of the fallacy of hysteria.

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kenmeer livermaile
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I'm a lib and I'm not patient. Where's my goldang mushroom cloud!!! Huh? Huh? You PROMISED!!!
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canadian
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libdisemboweler...

Is that your drag name?

[ March 06, 2007, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: canadian ]

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kenmeer livermaile
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Bubbles, he decided, was too liberal.
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